# Illegal immigration.. your stance? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 19, 2012, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-your-stance/625599 "2012-06-19T01:47:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-your-stance/625599/21 "2012-06-19T13:20:27Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > You don’t have a bucket for my opinion - immigration ought to be a basic human right. I don’t really count whether it’s “good for” the recieving country. These are people who want to travel to a different place and get a decent job there - bfd. Or at least, it ought to be. Basically this, with the addendum that I view the situation negatively because of the way undocumented immigrants are exploited in this country. I think it’s sick, and something must be done about it, and I support full amnesty for all. Allowing undocumented immigrants to become active participants in civic life would benefit everyone. And no, I’m not going to argue about it. I’ve done a lot of work with undocumented immigrants, I have friends and colleagues who are undocumented. This is one subject that really pushes my buttons. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-your-stance/625599/22 "2012-06-19T13:30:35Z")
Basically, anti-immigration sentiment is just racism. Every argument against it today was made in the past against Jews, Irish (except for not knowing the language), Chinese, Italians, Poles, Japanese, and just about every other ethnic group except English and Germans. It was wrong a century ago and it’s wrong today. I can see denying welfare benefits to non-citizens, but not work. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-your-stance/625599/23 "2012-06-19T14:51:49Z")
The borders need to be controlled, it’s a national security issue. We can’t just have anyone and everyone freely crossing borders any time they like. Those who enter the country illegally start off negatively IMO. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-your-stance/625599/24 "2012-06-19T15:18:23Z")
I think this issue is a measure of degrees. In Phx, 1 out of 4 people in jail are illegals. In Tennessee, what is the stat? I doubt 1 in 10 for them. Because of the geography, AZ (and other border states) will be more sensitive to the issue. I linked some stats on how much is spent by the State in another thread. JMHO The issue isnt illegals per se, but our system of nationalization. Many are here just for a better life, and they do jobs citizens wouldnt even consider doing. I think our naturalization system needs to be dismantled down to its foundation and rebuilt using current technology. Many of the “illegals” would become citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-your-stance/625599/25 "2012-06-19T15:20:25Z")
America can benefit from the hard work and cultural diversity of legal immigrants. I firmly believe that it the US wasn’t so overwhelmed by illegal immigration then a more comprehensive, fairer, and immigrant friendly policy could be implemented with wide bipartisan support. Let employers apply for work visas for immigrant workers upon demonstrating an inability to recruit a qualified and willing American for the job, any job. Make the employers pay for the visa. Issue the visa to the employer on behalf of the worker. Lose your job and you have to leave. Process employer’s applications in a maximum of 30 days from submission of all requirements. Require re-advertising the job prior to renewal of a work visa. If a qualified and wiling American applies then he/she gets the job. After an initial work visa issue the renewal to the immigrant employee. This provides some balance between the employer’s needs and protection of the workers rights. The immigrant would be free to seek work in any position where an employer cannot successfully recruit a qualified and willing American. Require posting a repatriation bond for each immigrant worker. Permit dependent visas based upon income and assets of the immigrant worker. Dependent visas allow for family reunification but do not permit employment. Dependents can seek a work visa of their own. Establish a system whereby immigrant workers can apply for permanent residency with the right to work after a predetermined period of time. Permanent residency must offer a path to citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-your-stance/625599/26 "2012-06-19T16:14:33Z")
Maybe my opinion is skewed, but as an American who lived in Germany 14 years as an “immigrant”, I feel a bit more empathy for those who have come to the US for the same reasons. Coming through totally legal channels is nice in theory, but for those wanting to enter the US, it is almost impossible unless you have a PhD in some field we need, or happen to have family already living here. It is not a simple matter of signing on the dotted line and flying into JFK. For those who did come here, and stay, and work, and pay taxes, and live a crime-free normal life, I don’t see why we shouldn’t let them stay. BTW, get over the idea that this is just a bunch of Mexicans mowing lawns - there are lots of Irish, Canadians, Australians, Brits, French, Germans, Asians and people from all over the world who have been living here illegally for decades or longer. The fact that you don’t even notice them should indicate they are assimilating well and are a positive addition to the population. Singling out Mexicans is an easy, cheap shot - but as one pundit mentioned years ago, “If an illegal immigrant who doesn’t speak a word of English is taking over your job, maybe it is time to look for another job.” The point being, these are the people doing work that nobody in the US can or will do. Ask employers in the agricultural, custodial or manual labor fields how many legal citizens apply for those jobs and the answer is almost always, “Nobody.” ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-your-stance/625599/27 "2012-06-19T18:07:09Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > The point being, these are the people doing work that nobody in the US can or will do. Ask employers in the agricultural, custodial or manual labor fields how many legal citizens apply for those jobs and the answer is almost always, “Nobody.” All this means is that wages are too low. Suppose you run a meat-packing plant. You’re patriotic, and you’d like to hire citizens and legal immigrants, and pay them a decent wage. However, your competitor down the road doesn’t mind hiring illegal immigrants and paying them just $6 per hour. He gets away with it because enforcement is so lax. If you continue to pay your employees a decent wage, your meat prices will be higher than your competitor’s, and you will be run out of business. In order for your meat-packing plant to survive, you must lower your employees’ wages - to the point where the only people willing to work in your plant are illegals. The only way wages can be made to rise to the point that American citizens will take those jobs is if we are willing to vigorously enforce the laws against illegal immigration. If you haven’t already guessed it, I am against illegal immigration. This does not mean I am anti-immigration; that would be a strange position to take, given that my mom was an immigrant, and my wife was too. But as a US citizen, my first loyalty is to the USA, and I don’t believe my country’s interests are best served by letting uncontrolled numbers of people with unknown backgrounds jump the fence at will. I am in favor of legal immigration at a controlled pace set by the US, composed of immigrants who pass a basic background check in the US and in their home country. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-your-stance/625599/28 "2012-06-19T18:31:12Z")
In nations like Mexico, where the choice for many families is between paying protection money/running narcotics for the local drug lord vs illegally immigrating to the US with a chance of staying forever (if you never get found out), there’s literally no reason _not_ to risk it. Even if you do get found out, the worse that happens is you get sent back. There’s nothing to keep people from sneaking back in. Why wouldn’t \*anyone \*do it? It’d be stupid NOT to! I wish the barriers to entry for immigration were lower _everywhere_. Not just for people coming to the US, but for people who want to leave it (like me). To change one’s nation of residence, it shouldn’t be necessary to have a degree and a well-established career and someone already established there to personally or professionally sponsor them. It’s overkill. There are social and legal changes the US desperately needs that won’t be enacted for years or decades (wrt the religious right, same-sex marriage, misogyny, health insurance reform, employee rights, and drug laws). Lobbyists have made a dent, but they’re tinking away and it’s taken freaking \*decades \*to get as far as we are (and will take many more to get where we need to be). Compare this situation to other first-world countries where those issues are much less of a problem (like Canada, Britain, & the Netherlands). I don’t think it’s fair to trap someone where they happened to be born. Maybe some kind of permanent exchange program would work, where I could change places with a Canadian who wants to live in the US and has roughly the same education level, career, language proficiency, and age as me. That’d be fucking _great._ ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-your-stance/625599/29 "2012-06-19T18:57:21Z")
The OP and the poll are asking about different things: Illegal **immigration** … your stance? How do you view illegal **immigrants** in the US? Immigrants are people. For the most part they are making reasonable choices based on the realities they face. I bear them no malice, especially since they often end up victimized for their status. And I like multicultural society. Illegal immigration, as a social and economic dynamic, hurts America and Americans. For example, as **Machine Elf** says, it keeps wages low. ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-your-stance/625599/30 "2012-06-19T19:00:44Z")
I’m opposed to illegal immigration and largely opposed to LEGAL immigration as well. I think the costs outweigh the benefits. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-your-stance/625599/31 "2012-06-19T19:03:13Z")
> [@corkboard](#): > > I believe the borders should be open to anyone who wants to enter the country, but who must agree to abide by our laws, pay taxes, and support the economy in **exchange for receiving a decent wage at a job**. I’m not guaranteed that as an American citizen; why should anyone else get that benefit? 😉 (Yes, I was just recently laid off, why do you ask?) ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-your-stance/625599/32 "2012-06-19T19:07:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Illegal immigration.. your stance? Like most issues, including this one, it is wide. ---
**Author:** ![gwendee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@gwendee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gwendee)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-your-stance/625599/33 "2012-06-19T19:38:23Z")
> [@Geek\_Mecha](#): > > I support a tough stance on illegal immgration, as well as making it significantly easier to immigrate legally. I am against anything **illegal**. I do not oppose immigration. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-your-stance/625599/34 "2012-06-19T20:38:12Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Then you are a Coward! **Gatopescado** , if you have a problem with another poster, take it to the Pit. Let’s quit the accusations of sockery. ---
**Author:** ![the\_apples\_fell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@the\_apples\_fell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_apples_fell)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-your-stance/625599/35 "2012-06-19T22:04:23Z")
The thing that worries me is that the US only has limited resources and space, and we cannot afford to become any more overpopulated than we already are. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-your-stance/625599/36 "2012-06-19T22:33:23Z")
> [@the\_apples\_fell](#): > > The thing that worries me is that the US only has limited resources and space, and we cannot afford to become any more overpopulated than we already are. That’s only true is you assume people are, in general, a burden. I think it’s very possible to argue that people are, in general, a resource. There’s empirical evidence of this from American history. We’re a successful and prosperous country and we historically have had a lot of immigration. I feel the United States has benefited from the self-selecting nature of immigration; the people who came to America were the go-getters from their native countries. It was our gain and those countries’ loss when those people became Americans. And I think this is still true. It doesn’t matter if we’re talking about a Mexican farm laborer or a Chinese engineering student - if they have the ambition to come to America for a better life, then they’re also improving America by being here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-your-stance/625599.md?page=1)