# Illegal numbers. **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [October 12, 2010, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-numbers/556862 "2010-10-12T04:25:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-numbers/556862/21 "2010-10-12T18:18:43Z")
I don’t know what the fuck what that was. Should I grovel now? ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-numbers/556862/22 "2010-10-12T18:21:01Z")
Grovel, grovel, cringe, bow, stoop, fall Worship, worship, beg, kneel, sponge, crawl ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-numbers/556862/23 "2010-10-12T19:48:00Z")
> [@Darth\_Nader](#): > > I don’t know what the fuck what that was. A _long_-overdue flameout. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-numbers/556862/24 "2010-10-12T19:50:12Z")
The thing is…that grid of numbers Darth posted earlier? I might have created something that looked somewhat similar back in the day. A grid of numbers from 1-8, arranged in groups of some kind, and it would have nothing to do with copyright, classified information, or anything remotely similar. It would very likely be my short hand method of noting the hit points for each member of an orc army in the D&D game I used to run. Or any other perfectly legitimate explanations could apply. Note that I’m interested in the legal aspect of “illegal numbers”. I have no objection to board policy regarding same. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-numbers/556862/25 "2010-10-12T20:21:22Z")
I still don’t know what illegal numbers are, but at least a recent banning makes more sense now. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-numbers/556862/26 "2010-10-12T20:40:33Z")
Is 11 an illegal number? 11 f9 09? 09 f9 11? ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-numbers/556862/27 "2010-10-12T20:48:36Z")
Yes. It is, it seems. Just don’t dance over **Marley** ’s line… ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-numbers/556862/28 "2010-10-12T21:21:55Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Is 11 an illegal number? > > 11 f9 09? > > 09 f9 11? Here’s a decent rule of thumb: if I put the number in Google and find it’s on a list of illegal numbers (or codes used to decrypt DVDs and so on), it probably is one. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-numbers/556862/29 "2010-10-13T01:49:43Z")
I think it may be safest to never post _any_ number on the Boards. My reasoning is as follows. First, if illegal numbers can range from zero up to infin . . . er, as high as you want, then there must be a lowest illegal number. Call it N. If I posted the number which is one less than N, and mentioned exactly that, that “it was one less than the smallest illegal number”, it would be more than easy to use that information to calculate the smallest illegal number (duh, just add one to it). So, I can’t post N-1 (since it would be tantamount to posting N). And of course I can’t post N itself. Okay, how about posting N-2. Nope. Same logic would apply. I think you can see that it follows that I can’t post N-3, N-4, etc. They all allow you to determine N. Hey, if I type “32”, I may be breaking the law in the process. As I said, it’s probably safest never to post any number. ETA: I have been familiar with Mr. Berry for decades, but admit seeing it used elsewhere in this context quite recently. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-numbers/556862/30 "2010-10-13T03:35:44Z")
if ever there was a thread that needs this, it is this one fnord ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_The\_Diver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Buck\_The\_Diver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_The_Diver)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-numbers/556862/31 "2010-10-13T04:07:37Z")
001100010010011110100001101101110011 001100010010011110100001101101110011 NOTE: should not be read aloud ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-numbers/556862/32 "2010-10-13T04:19:06Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > > [@Musicat](#): > > > > Is 11 an illegal number? > > > > 11 f9 09? > > > > 09 f9 11? > > Here’s a decent rule of thumb: if I put the number in Google and find it’s on a list of illegal numbers (or codes used to decrypt DVDs and so on), it probably is one. 😉 Wouldn’t a list of illegal numbers also be illegal? But what if there’s a hypothetical sequence of ten numbers is illegal and that sequence appears as a part of a sequence of _twenty_ numbers that I’m otherwise using legally. Could I get into trouble? What if I’m an accountant or something and a monetary amount or whatever comes out to that hypothetical sequence of ten numbers? I mean, in that case the list of numbers aren’t even meant to be translated into binary, but still, if they were, it would represent illegal information. _Head explodes._ ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-numbers/556862/33 "2010-10-13T04:26:00Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > _Head explodes._ Exactly. Seriously, don’t confuse SDMB rules with the legal issues with this this information. I think it’s pretty easy to conclude you can’t use the SDMB to share information that violates someone else’s copyright. I don’t think we’ve dealt with this specific issue before, but we’ve dealt with stuff like it. On the other hand the legal issues that have prompted people to say these numbers are “illegal” or copyrighted are bizarre and totally beyond my comprehension. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-numbers/556862/34 "2010-10-13T04:52:02Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > n. I think it’s pretty easy to conclude you can’t use the SDMB to share information that violates someone else’s copyright. Maybe we need a list of numbers that are copyrighted and those that are not. I would like to copyright the number 2. You can have the rest. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-numbers/556862/35 "2010-10-13T05:19:12Z")
Then I will grab 1 and 3. Between us we can corner the math textbook market. At least in the primary grades. And Sesame street will be our bitch. ---
**Author:** ![SevenOfTeemingMillions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@SevenOfTeemingMillions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SevenOfTeemingMillions)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-numbers/556862/36 "2010-10-13T05:36:23Z")
I though OP was reporting to the mods illegal gambling going on somewhere on the board. (I once saw a movie on cable where “illegal numbers” was used as a euphemism for “illegal gambling”. I don’t know if it’s a widely-used or well-known euphemism.) I quickly clicked on the thread wanting to see what’s happening somewhat like those bystanders who gather outside a crime scene, whispering to each other and pointing to the dead shrubbery as the police bring out handcuffed individuals. I was surprised that the “numbers” in “illegal numbers” meant actual, living, breathing numbers. That so surprised, boggled and confused me that I scratched my head so hard it caused my dog to wag his tail. I would understand if some people living in bunkers surrounded by acres of barbed wire and underfed fracas would consider the number 666 as illegal, blasphemous and maybe even sexy but I could not think of a number that the government of these united states would consider illegal hence the head-scratching and consequent tail-wagging. Thankfully, Marley23’s helpful link helped me understand and I have stopped scratching my head and my dog has stopped wagging his tail. To quote a great guy: “Fascinating!” ---
**Author:** ![Lare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@Lare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lare)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-numbers/556862/37 "2010-10-13T14:37:01Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Then I will grab 1 and 3. Between us we can corner the math textbook market. At least in the primary grades. And Sesame street will be our bitch. Then I want 0. After you get them hooked with Sesame Street, sooner or later they’ll want more. Or they’ll want nothing. Uhhh, whatever. Seriously, I understand the concept, but trying to put it into a practical application (“Yes, that number’s illegal, here’s your jail term.”) gives me a headache, too. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-numbers/556862/38 "2010-10-13T18:36:14Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Then I will grab 1 and 3. Between us we can corner the math textbook market. At least in the primary grades. And Sesame street will be our bitch. 3 is a _MAGIC_ number. Not an illegal one. Duh. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-numbers/556862/39 "2010-10-13T21:05:43Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > > [@Rick](#): > > > > Then I will grab 1 and 3. Between us we can corner the math textbook market. At least in the primary grades. And Sesame street will be our bitch. > > 3 is a _MAGIC_ number. Not an illegal one. Duh. Psst…_over here_…yeah, you…I just got 'em in…want some filthy transcendentals or surds, cheap?! ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-numbers/556862/40 "2010-10-13T21:47:43Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > First, if illegal numbers can range from zero up to infin . . . er, as high as you want, then there must be a lowest illegal number. Call it N. Are you suggesting that all negative numbers are legal? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-numbers/556862.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-numbers/556862.md?page=3)