# Illegal people; illegal activities **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 17, 2010, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-people-illegal-activities/539760 "2010-05-17T14:29:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-people-illegal-activities/539760/1 "2010-05-17T14:29:32Z")
For those who think it is ok for an illegal alien to be in the US … Is it OK for them to engage in illegal activities…like cockfighting? Why not? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-people-illegal-activities/539760/2 "2010-05-17T14:40:12Z")
I think that even most of the people who are ok with immigrants being in the US illegally are opposed to things like cockfighting. Most of the people ok with immigrants being in the US illegally are ok with it because they believe the current immigration laws are unjust, or that illegal immigrants provide a net benefit to the country, or because they believe that actively trying to find and deport people who are here who shouldn’t be is primarily motivated by anti-Hispanic racism. They’re not, for the most part, anarchists or people who believe that people who are here illegally should be allowed to do whatever they want. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-people-illegal-activities/539760/3 "2010-05-17T15:17:14Z")
Not that the OP suggests this, but it’s fair to point out that in the case of opposition to the recent immigration-related law in Arizona, the claim is that distaste for the law stems from the harassment they believe will be visited upon legal residents and citizens, not out of a belief that illegal aliens should be permitted to remain. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-people-illegal-activities/539760/4 "2010-05-17T16:35:02Z")
I don’t see how the two issues in the OP are related. For example, I think that America’s laws on marijuana are outdated, but I do not support the murder of DEA agents. Like a lot of people, I think our laws on immigration need to be revised and based on reality, precisely because I want immigrants to be better integrated into society. Also, isn’t cockfighting legal in some states. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-people-illegal-activities/539760/5 "2010-05-17T16:36:11Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > For those who think it is ok for an illegal alien to be in the US … > > Is it OK for them to engage in illegal activities…like cockfighting? Why not? Of course not. It’s not okay for legal aliens or US citizens to engage in illegal activities …like cockfighting, either. Because it’s, you know, _illegal._ ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-people-illegal-activities/539760/6 "2010-05-17T17:09:05Z")
While I don’t think that it’s good for people to get away with all crimes willy-nilly, I do think that it’s a good thing that we can get away with a several small crimes in this country (Jaywalking, speeding) with a realistic chance of getting away with it. This is mostly because I think any society where you can’t get away with some of these often would be so restrictive it would create a society I would not recognize anymore. That does not justify my point of view in any factual manner, but simply proves I’m slipping more into conservatism in my old age. Sorry, it’s what I’m used to. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-people-illegal-activities/539760/7 "2010-05-17T17:51:30Z")
I don’t necessarily believe that the presence of large numbers of illegal aliens is perfectly OK, but likewise, I do not think that this is a crime that has sufficient impact on society to justify all the recent huffing and puffing on the issue. Law enforcement resources are limited; it seems sensible that those limited resources be focused on those issues most likely to harm society. If murders are a significant problem in a given jurisdiction, I’d have to question the priorities of a police department that assigns more resources to busting cockfighting operations, or arresting illegal aliens for their mere presence here, than solving murders. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-people-illegal-activities/539760/8 "2010-05-17T18:01:41Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > While I don’t think that it’s good for people to get away with all crimes willy-nilly, I do think that it’s a good thing that we can get away with a several small crimes in this country (Jaywalking, speeding) with a realistic chance of getting away with it. This is mostly because I think any society where you can’t get away with some of these often would be so restrictive it would create a society I would not recognize anymore. That does not justify my point of view in any factual manner, but simply proves I’m slipping more into conservatism in my old age. Sorry, it’s what I’m used to. If you don’t think those laws need to be observed, wouldn’t it we better if we just got rid of the laws? ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-people-illegal-activities/539760/9 "2010-05-17T19:59:18Z")
What an odd thread! “Because you think one thing shouldn’t be an issue, therefore you think everything else also should not be!” If I think that mariijiana should be decriminalized, it doesn’t mean that I think the torture and murder of babies should also be decriminalized. It also doesn’t mean that I think theft, fraud, assault, or anything else should be decriminalized. All it means is that I think marijuana should be decriminalized. I don’t actually happen to think that mariguana should be decriminalized (to be fair, I don’t think it should not be, either - I simply don’t have an opinion on that particular thing). I also don’t have an opinion on the US’s immigration issues, not being American. I just find the immigration -\> cockfighting analogy to be uttery bizarre. One presumably has two totally separate opinions on two such disparate subjects. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-people-illegal-activities/539760/10 "2010-05-17T20:13:31Z")
For those who think it’s OK to use your lawn mower to mow the lawn. Is it OK for you to use your lawnmower to slaughter children? Why not? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-people-illegal-activities/539760/11 "2010-05-17T20:38:59Z")
Well, it wastes fuel, and we don’t want to be bankrolling terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-people-illegal-activities/539760/12 "2010-05-17T20:59:29Z")
We have a new class of people in the USA-illegal aliens. These people have more rights than US citizens-when arrested, they are released, and free to go. They ignore deportation orders, and are free to commit crimes. The reason, local LE doesn’t know what to do with them, The Federal authorities will not deport them, so they are allowed to do what they want. Take the case of Baracl Obama’s aunt-she is living in public housing in Boston, and received welfare…despite ebing here illegally. She has ignored 4 deportation orders…and (this just in) she has been granted asylum. So I guess I’ll be supporting her for the next 35-45 years. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-people-illegal-activities/539760/13 "2010-05-17T21:02:23Z")
Yes. God, how I wish _I_ was an illegal alien so I could exercise the rights of the privileged. :rolleyes: **ralph** , really, stop making things up. It’s getting sad. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-people-illegal-activities/539760/14 "2010-05-17T21:10:25Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > We have a new class of people in the USA-illegal aliens. These people have more rights than US citizens-when arrested, they are released, and free to go. They ignore deportation orders, and are free to commit crimes. > The reason, local LE doesn’t know what to do with them, The Federal authorities will not deport them, so they are allowed to do what they want. > Take the case of Baracl Obama’s aunt-she is living in public housing in Boston, and received welfare..despite ebing here illegally. She has ignored 4 deportation orders..and (this just in) she has been granted asylum. > So I guess I’ll be supporting her for the next 35-45 years. **Ralph124c,** I can assure you, many many people are deported every day. Almost every one of my non-citizen criminal clients who were convicted were deported, even those who were here legally. I can also assure you that they \*\*do not \*\*have more rights than US citizens. What a strange thing to say. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-people-illegal-activities/539760/15 "2010-05-17T21:16:39Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > I just find the immigration -\> cockfighting analogy to be uttery bizarre. One presumably has two totally separate opinions on two such disparate subjects. Well, maybe if we imported illegal immigrants for use in gladiator games the two issues might seem more similar… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-people-illegal-activities/539760/16 "2010-05-17T21:44:12Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Well, maybe if we imported illegal immigrants for use in gladiator games the two issues might seem more similar… Tonight! In Madison Square Garden! For a purse of $500,000! 50 Afghan POWs vs. the East LA Crips! The weapon of choice will be . . . chainsaws! To ensure a vigorous contest, all surviving members of the losing team **will** be crucified! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-people-illegal-activities/539760/17 "2010-05-17T22:13:00Z")
The Crips are illegal immigrants? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-people-illegal-activities/539760/18 "2010-05-17T22:20:28Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > We have a new class of people in the USA-illegal aliens. These people have more rights than US citizens-when arrested, they are released, and free to go. They ignore deportation orders, and are free to commit crimes… So, what do illegals do while in our country, **Ralph**? Do they gather in bands to pillage and plunder? Or just wander aimlessly about the countryside, pausing on occasion to beg for small change? They work. They work _hard_! Ever done any stoop labor? Waddle like a duck down a row of produce, harvesting by hand? Got any idea how hard that is, how grueling, how painful? Any idea how ill-paid it is? They are here because you want them here, either that, or you want to spend ten dollars a head for iceberg lettuce. The fact that they are illegal fits very neatly into the agenda of the people who exploit their labor: they can’t bitch. They have no rights, cannot form unions, cannot negotiate. The people who exploit their labor have not the slightest desire to see any sort of legitimacy for these people, they _want_ them illegal, for precisely these reasons. You want family values? They got ‘em. Risking their lives to live in a hostile country, working brutally hard for chump change, all to send money to wives they cannot sleep with, children they cannot touch. Initiative, good ol’ fashioned gumption? Try walking across the Sonoran Desert for a couple days, and put your life in the hands of a stranger who may get you to Tucson, may get you lost in Hell, or may just murder you after he takes your money. _That’s_ some fucking gumption. Hard working? Oh, yeah. American values? They got them. We don’t. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-people-illegal-activities/539760/19 "2010-05-17T22:52:27Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The Crips are illegal immigrants? No, but I bet they can fight! Let’s not get hung up on technicalities! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-people-illegal-activities/539760/20 "2010-05-17T23:11:40Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > For those who think it is ok for an illegal alien to be in the US … > > Is it OK for them to engage in illegal activities…like cockfighting? Why not? Personally, I distinguish between illegal activities which are malum in se (wrong by its very nature) and [malum prohibitum](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malum_prohibitum) (wrong because the law says so). Cockfighting is a deliberate infliction of cruelty on other lifeforms, and thus I would call it bad by its very nature. Even if it was legalized, I’d still call it wrong. The mere fact that someone has crossed an arbitrary border in violation of the law is not, in and of itself, an evil act, even if there are laws against it. I’d also include marijuana use as being _malum prohibitum_ and not _malum in se_. I’m also bothered by labeling people as “Illegals.” I feel like it’s a way of subtly dehumanizing them by defining the totality of their existence as illegality, and ignoring the fact that they are flesh and blood human beings who have other traits. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-people-illegal-activities/539760.md?page=2)