# Illegal strikes and involuntary servitude **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 2, 2006, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-strikes-and-involuntary-servitude/350924 "2006-04-02T06:05:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-strikes-and-involuntary-servitude/350924/1 "2006-04-02T06:05:36Z")
How does punishing workers for stiking not violate the 13th amendment? During the recent NYC tranist strike workers were fined 2 days pay for each day they didn’t work. Union leaders were threatened with jail time. I can understand _docking_ their pay or firing them. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-strikes-and-involuntary-servitude/350924/2 "2006-04-02T06:25:49Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > How does punishing workers for stiking not violate the 13th amendment? During the recent NYC tranist strike workers were fined 2 days pay for each day they didn’t work. Union leaders were threatened with jail time. I can understand _docking_ their pay or firing them. I don’t think it violates teh 13th amendment because the people striking could continue to strike, or just quit. If it was slavery, they’d have no choice. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-strikes-and-involuntary-servitude/350924/3 "2006-04-02T16:57:18Z")
It is also a _voluntary_ association. You freely entered into a contract that forbids strikes. You then violated that contract. Punative damages result. You may quit the strike or the job at any time. Hardly _involuntary_ servitude. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-strikes-and-involuntary-servitude/350924/4 "2006-04-03T04:20:48Z")
Slight hijack, but why is manditory jury duty, which is involuntary servitude, not illegal? ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-strikes-and-involuntary-servitude/350924/5 "2006-04-03T16:07:17Z")
> [@Master Control](#): > > Slight hijack, but why is manditory jury duty, which is involuntary servitude, not illegal? Because the courts have said it isn’t. From “[Immediato vs. Rye Neck School District](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=search&case=/data2/circs/2nd/957237.html)” > [@](#): > > In application, courts have consistently found the involuntary servitude standard is not so rigorous as to prohibit all forms of labor that one person is compelled to perform for the benefit of another. The Thirteenth Amendment does not bar labor that an individual may, at least in some sense, choose not to perform, even where the consequences of that choice are “exceedingly bad.” Id. at 486; see also Watson v. Graves , 909 F.2d 1549, 1552 (5th Cir. 1990). For example, a state may require an attorney to work pro bono , United States v. 30.64 Acres of Land , 795 F.2d 796, 800-01 (9th Cir. 1986) (attorney may, in the alternative, choose not to practice law), or a doctor who has accepted scholarship funds to perform pro bono services, United States v. Redovan , 656 F. Supp. 121, 128-29 (E.D. Pa. 1986), aff’d , 826 F.2d 1057 (3d Cir. 1987) (doctor may choose to pay damages for breach of contract). The government may also require the performance of “civic duties” such as military service, Selective Draft Law Cases , 245 U.S. 366, 390 (1918), jury duty, see Hurtado v. United States , 410 U.S. 578, 589 n.11 (1973), and upkeep of local public roads, Butler , 240 U.S. at 333 , without trenching upon the Thirteenth Amendment. If you’re wanting a deep dive into the topic there was an in depth law journal article which can be found [on the NYU School of Law website](http://www.law.nyu.edu/journals/legislation/articles/vol5num2/seamone.pdf)(PDF). There is a long discussion there about not only if the imposition of Jury Duty violates the 13th amendment in general, but also if the low pay constitutes a violation. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-strikes-and-involuntary-servitude/350924/6 "2006-04-03T18:23:35Z")
Thank you [/end hijack] ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-strikes-and-involuntary-servitude/350924/7 "2006-04-03T18:49:31Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > How does punishing workers for stiking not violate the 13th amendment? During the recent NYC tranist strike workers were fined 2 days pay for each day they didn’t work. Union leaders were threatened with jail time. I can understand _docking_ their pay or firing them. Because it’s government work. The government has the authority to impose penalties on the conduct of its employees that private employers do not. CIA employees who spill secrets learned at work go to jail, not just get fired (or sued). Soldiers who feel like taking the week off are prosecuted for being AWOL, not simply fired. As to why this is legal, **silenus** is correct. You can voluntarily agree to temporarily give up some of your rights. Sua