# Illegal To Be Gay?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-to-be-gay/561063
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [November 18, 2010, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-to-be-gay/561063 "2010-11-18T03:37:08Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-to-be-gay/561063/21 "2010-11-18T18:25:19Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#):
>
> Good Lord, I can only imagine what would be in store for a Western visitor caught by Iran’s Morality Police at a drug and alcohol-fueled gay orgy. :eek:
Most like a you have been a naughty boy and don’t do it again.
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### Author:  [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2010, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-to-be-gay/561063/22 "2010-11-18T18:30:54Z")
> [@AK84](#):
>
> Most like a you have been a naughty boy and don’t do it again.
You think a little warning would be the extent of it then, eh?
Tell you what, you can go over and research this theory of yours personally and then report back here, as Ignorance needs fighting more and more each day…
PS—Be sure to give the Morality Police a few Bibles and Torah’s as icebreakers, as I understand they are highly prized over there.
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### Author:  [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2010, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-to-be-gay/561063/23 "2010-11-18T18:31:01Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#):
>
> What does it mean to “be gay” without homosexual acts?
It’s no different than “being straight” without heterosexual acts. I had my first same-sex fantasy at the age of 5, yet I never had sex until college. I didn’t spontaneously “become gay” when I lost my virginity.
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### Author:  [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2010, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-to-be-gay/561063/24 "2010-11-18T18:33:47Z")
> [@Markxxx](#):
>
> Being gay is a self-identification. I haven’t had sex in years, but I’m still gay.
I haven’t had sex in years either - does that make me gay too? 😃
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### Author:  [@Panurge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Panurge)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-to-be-gay/561063/25 "2010-11-18T18:36:45Z")
> [@AK84](#):
>
> Most like a you have been a naughty boy and don’t do it again.
I think you’re right. A bust at a party (queer or not) wouldn’t have any serious repercussions for a Westener. Not sure what would happen to any Iranians, but they were always awfully quick at donning proper clothes, separate sexes to different locations and flushing liquor down the drain when the lookouts called to say the police were on their way.
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### Author:  [@Panurge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Panurge)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2010, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-to-be-gay/561063/26 "2010-11-18T19:14:34Z")
To be clear: [Homosexuality is illegal in Iran.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Iran) (even though Ahmadinejad famously declared that there “are no homosexuals in Iran”). It is hard to see if they discern between “gayness” and specific, homosexual acts.
[It is, however, legal to be a transsexual](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexuality_in_Iran). This means that many gay Iranians register as transsexuals. A major downside to this is that some people have actually be forced into having sex-change operations (Iran is the country in the world - aside from Thailand - that has the highest number of sex-change operations). [The 2008 film Be like Others addresses this problem](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1157609/).
I think my Norwegian acquaintance might have had these two things mixed up - or perhaps it is possible for some to be “certified transsexuals” and not have an operation?
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### Author:  [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-to-be-gay/561063/27 "2010-11-18T19:57:46Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#):
>
> You think a little warning would be the extent of it then, eh?
>
> Tell you what, you can go over and research this theory of yours personally and then report back here, as Ignorance needs fighting more and more each day…
> PS—Be sure to give the Morality Police a few Bibles and Torah’s as icebreakers, as I understand they are highly prized over there.
I suppose torah’s are might be prized by Iranian Jews.[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian\_Jews#Iran](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Jews#Iran).
And I have actually “been there”, not in gay bars admittedly, but have been there.
A westerner caught at a gay orgy or what not or indeed most foreigners will not be worth going after in most cases. Too much trouble, too much publicity too much of a headache to deal with. Unless it is compounded with something say sex with minors or hardcore drugs or running a ring a single westener is at most going to spend a few hours at the police station and then let go or worst case deported. Its too much of a bother
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### Author:  [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-to-be-gay/561063/28 "2010-11-18T19:59:38Z")
> [@Panurge](#):
>
> I think my Norwegian acquaintance might have had these two things mixed up - or perhaps it is possible for some to be “certified transsexuals” and not have an operation?
Or perhaps more accurately people in Iran do not distinguish between gays and transsexuals. I know the subcontinent does not.
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### Author:  [@Panurge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Panurge)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-to-be-gay/561063/29 "2010-11-18T20:14:15Z")
Culturally, you might be right, but Iranian law seems to be very clear-cut on the subject (see the wikipedia link above).
Regarding the subcontinent: Do people not distinguish between gays and hijras, for instance?
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### Author:  [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2010, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-to-be-gay/561063/30 "2010-11-18T23:14:55Z")
A westerner caught anywhere in the Middle East would most likely be quickly & quitely deported; things would be much worse for the local. Even if they’re from a family influential enough to avoid a criminal prosecution they risk being institutionalized or worse (not all honour killing victims were female).
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### Author:  [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2010, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-to-be-gay/561063/31 "2010-11-18T23:38:00Z")
> [@Panurge](#):
>
> Not sure what would happen to any Iranians, but they were always awfully quick at donning proper clothes, separate sexes to different locations and flushing liquor…
'Course you don’t need to separate the sexes when the police come calling if it’s a gay orgy… you know, the more I think about this… the authorities want the guys (and girls) to party only with others of the same gender… but there is no homosexuality in Iran… hmmm… and I thought denial was further west. 🙂
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### Author:  [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-to-be-gay/561063/32 "2010-11-18T23:44:15Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#):
>
> A westerner caught anywhere in the Middle East would most likely be quickly & quitely deported; things would be much worse for the local.
I would have to agree that this may well be true for most places in the Middle East, but despite what the other posters here might try to say (and I am sure actually believe) I am pretty mollyfocking sceptical that a Westerner caught in Tehran in a room/home/club with “booze, drugs and (homosexual) fornication” would be merely warned and then freed to go and sin no more…
The type of drugs was not specified, but there are plenty of places right here in the good ol’ Great Satan (USA) where getting caught in a room at a party with drugs, booze and assorted “festive” goings-on will get you a trip down to the local police department. I imagine there are still one or two American cops out there who may be a touch homophobic, right?
As for the gay locals who get busted, Allah be merciful, cause I doubt the Iranian morality police are gonna be.
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### Author:  [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)
#### Post date: [November 19, 2010, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-to-be-gay/561063/33 "2010-11-19T07:10:26Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#):
>
> I would have to agree that this may well be true for most places in the Middle East, but despite what the other posters here might try to say (and I am sure actually believe) I am pretty mollyfocking sceptical that a Westerner caught in Tehran in a room/home/club with “booze, drugs and (homosexual) fornication” would be merely warned and then freed to go and sin no more…
>
> The type of drugs was not specified, but there are plenty of places right here in the good ol’ Great Satan (USA) where getting caught in a room at a party with drugs, booze and assorted “festive” goings-on will get you a trip down to the local police department. I imagine there are still one or two American cops out there who may be a touch homophobic, right?
>
> As for the gay locals who get busted, Allah be merciful, cause I doubt the Iranian morality police are gonna be.
Basing this on what? I am not an Iranian Lawyer, but I do have family who is Iranian and have been to Iran on several occasions, and I know if what you say was true then half of Iran’s population would be in jail.
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### Author:  [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)
#### Post date: [November 19, 2010, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-to-be-gay/561063/34 "2010-11-19T07:12:25Z")
> [@Panurge](#):
>
> Regarding the subcontinent: Do people not distinguish between gays and hijras, for instance?
They both come under the generic heading of “people who have weird sex, some of which looks fun”.
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### Author:  [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)
#### Post date: [November 19, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-to-be-gay/561063/35 "2010-11-19T17:26:12Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#):
>
> A westerner caught anywhere in the Middle East would most likely be quickly & quitely deported; things would be much worse for the local. Even if they’re from a family influential enough to avoid a criminal prosecution they risk being institutionalized or worse (not all honour killing victims were female).
Not in all cases. I’ve read several “look how shit things are for us gays internationally” stories in the gay media that feature western people being executed in ME countries. I agree that westerners are probably treated more leniently generally but they’re not given a complete free pass.
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### Author:  [@Panurge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Panurge)
#### Post date: [November 19, 2010, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-to-be-gay/561063/36 "2010-11-19T18:20:22Z")
> [@AK84](#):
>
> They both come under the generic heading of “people who have weird sex, some of which looks fun”.
It might be the case that there is no fundamental difference from a cultural angle - I imagine the social stigma to be much the same in the two cases. But legally?
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### Author:  [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)
#### Post date: [November 19, 2010, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-to-be-gay/561063/37 "2010-11-19T19:02:41Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#):
>
> Not in all cases. I’ve read several “look how shit things are for us gays internationally” stories in the gay media that feature western people being executed in ME countries. I agree that westerners are probably treated more leniently generally but they’re not given a complete free pass.
examples please. Executing a Westerner in most ME countries for anything upto buggering little boys is likely to raise such a storm that its going to be next to impossible for any government.
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### Author:  [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)
#### Post date: [November 19, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-to-be-gay/561063/38 "2010-11-19T19:06:01Z")
> [@Panurge](#):
>
> It might be the case that there is no fundamental difference from a cultural angle - I imagine the social stigma to be much the same in the two cases. But legally?
“Unnatural Acts” are illegal technically. Practically for a prosecution to actually take place you need some compounding factor; the two latest cases (by “latest” I mean about 10 years) were a pedophile who did young boys and an army officer who took soldiers to his quarters; soldier under his command.
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### Author:  [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)
#### Post date: [November 19, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-to-be-gay/561063/39 "2010-11-19T19:10:31Z")
> [@AK84](#):
>
> Basing this on what? I am not an Iranian Lawyer, but I do have family who is Iranian and have been to Iran on several occasions
How many times have you been apprehended in a room with alcohol, illegal drugs and open homosexual activity in Iran and been let go with a wink and a nod?
Are all the poeple worldwide (ex-pat Iranians, Amnesty International, random international journalists, lost American “hikers”, etc.) just making up stuff about the poor, misunderstood Iranian government?
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### Author:  [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)
#### Post date: [November 19, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-to-be-gay/561063/40 "2010-11-19T20:10:05Z")
So it’s illegal to engage in any homosexual acts - including holding hands, looking at each other, conversing about homosexuality, expressing desire. It’s illegal to profess homosexuality or argue for it.
But it is not illegal to _be_ homosexual. :rolleyes: “You can be homosexual, as long as no one knows, because as soon as someone knows, you have violated laws about doing homosexual acts.”
The distinction seems mighty thin. There may be philosophical grounds to argue the difference between being and doing, but for all practical purposes, there is no difference. Be a homosexual and do anything (like try to live your life) to indicate such and you are violating a law.
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