# "Illegals" as a descriptor of people -- considered hate speech or not? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [August 20, 2019, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegals-as-a-descriptor-of-people-considered-hate-speech-or-not/838934 "2019-08-20T13:54:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegals-as-a-descriptor-of-people-considered-hate-speech-or-not/838934/121 "2019-08-21T15:22:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Thank you for demonstrating your mind-reading powers here! Much appreciated. Forgot to ask, were you go to work up that list for us or leave us guessing? ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegals-as-a-descriptor-of-people-considered-hate-speech-or-not/838934/122 "2019-08-21T15:35:02Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > No need to make any promises. You just need to ask yourself if you want to be the type of person that offends or not. How other people behave is irrelevant. Do you really think this board is meant to be inoffensive? Just look at the OP. > [@](#): > > I think it should be – it’s an inherently dehumanizing descriptor, IMO, akin to calling immigrants vermin. That stated opinion is setting out a position, and it’s done with full knowledge that other posters have been using the term “illegals”. That’s not asking other people how they use the term, or how they hear the term. It’s not trying to gain an understanding of the spectrum of opinions on the term, and see if there’s a reasonable consensus on its use. If you were a user of the term, wouldn’t you find that opinion, at the very least, provocative? I’ll note that this thread was pretty good about staying on track. It wasn’t until post #49 when someone really made a shot-like comment: > [@](#): > > the use of the word as a noun is eschewed by decent people Do you think it’s inoffensive to be called indecent? I generally adopt the tone of the thread I’m participating in. If the tone is light-hearted, academic, or thoughtful, I’ll try to post in that manner. But if it’s contentious from the beginning, and the other side is taking shots, I’ll probably respond in kind and use counter-provocative terms. And yes, in post #106 I should have added to my promise the caveat of “outside this thread”. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegals-as-a-descriptor-of-people-considered-hate-speech-or-not/838934/123 "2019-08-21T15:37:10Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > That doesn’t make sense though. The mods have said they don’t want to have an ever growing list of so-called hate words. You think the mods are going to have a list that functions as a license to attack other posters? There are forums in which political jabs are disallowed. There are certain words that are not allowed. I don’t see how we couldn’t just say there are certain words that won’t get you banned but shouldn’t be used outside the pit. I’d say infractions could be policed with mod notes unless there’s a clear pattern of deliberately flaunting the rules. Someone who perhaps once let’s “The damn illegals” slip from his fingertips? A mod note would do the trick. Repeated offenses that inevitably invite harsh responses from other posters is clearly trolling/flaming. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegals-as-a-descriptor-of-people-considered-hate-speech-or-not/838934/124 "2019-08-21T16:56:21Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > There are forums in which political jabs are disallowed. There are certain words that are not allowed. I don’t see how we couldn’t just say there are certain words that won’t get you banned but shouldn’t be used outside the pit. I’d say infractions could be policed with mod notes unless there’s a clear pattern of deliberately flaunting the rules. > > Someone who perhaps once let’s “The damn illegals” slip from his fingertips? A mod note would do the trick. Repeated offenses that inevitably invite harsh responses from other posters is clearly trolling/flaming. I disagree that the board should be ruled, more than it is, by the most persistent, vocal, and organized subset. The administration sets the boundaries on acceptable language and behavior. Obviously, eliminating words that may be seen by some as offensive isn’t deemed desirable or possible. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegals-as-a-descriptor-of-people-considered-hate-speech-or-not/838934/125 "2019-08-21T17:03:06Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > If it’s off topic then yes avoid attacking the poster seems obvious. I’m pretty new here – is arguing about the words a person used in their post really considered attacking the poster? (I can see how it could eventually, or.in some instances, be off topic.) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegals-as-a-descriptor-of-people-considered-hate-speech-or-not/838934/126 "2019-08-21T17:27:13Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > You’re welcome, but all I did was read your words. Pretty simple stuff. That’s not what I think, but okay. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > Forgot to ask, were you go to work up that list for us or leave us guessing? Not sure what list you’re talking about. If it’s some nebulous list of offensive words, that’s beyond the scope of this thread, IMO. If you want to start a thread about it, I may or may not contribute. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegals-as-a-descriptor-of-people-considered-hate-speech-or-not/838934/127 "2019-08-21T17:28:51Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Indeed, \*\*iiandyiiii \*\*- you’ve shown this pattern whereby you’ll say Thing X, people will note that you said Thing X, and then you’ll claim that people are mind-reading or projecting by pointing out that you said…Thing X. > > Not attacking you, just saying. I think people sometimes mischaracterize the things that I say, and I make jokes about mind-reading to gently mock this kind of mischaracterization. No big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegals-as-a-descriptor-of-people-considered-hate-speech-or-not/838934/128 "2019-08-21T17:39:21Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I was going to say this too. When one’s professed “offense” is sandwiched between slinging insults at others, it comes across much more as contrived pearl-clutching rather than genuine hurt. Nonsense. Not all points of view deserve protection. The belief that everyone is entitled to equal treatment and the belief that white people deserve better treatment than black people are not two equally valid opinions. Somebody who goes around saying that black people are criminals and deserve to get shot by police is going to be called a racist. And he shouldn’t whine because his feelings get hurt. People that say offensive things shouldn’t be protected from other people calling them offensive. I have no problem with people criticizing my beliefs. If somebody criticizes them, I’ll be able to defend them. When people say that nobody else should be allowed to criticize their beliefs, it means they know their beliefs can’t stand up to any criticism. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegals-as-a-descriptor-of-people-considered-hate-speech-or-not/838934/129 "2019-08-21T18:28:50Z")
I missed that this thread was in ATMB. I thought it was asking should it be considered hate speech in general. I’d say no to that, but for me it definitely does act a signifier that the person using it might well be a bit of a bigot. It’s possible that they’re not, though, unlike with the serious slur words. Basically yay to “policing” other people’s language by judging them on the words they use - which we all do all the time - and nay for adding it to a list of words that incites an automatic warning. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegals-as-a-descriptor-of-people-considered-hate-speech-or-not/838934/130 "2019-08-21T20:30:18Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Because it has to be one word, right? OK, if it must only be one word, let’s go with “Jim”. Pronounced “Heem”, presumably. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegals-as-a-descriptor-of-people-considered-hate-speech-or-not/838934/131 "2019-08-21T20:35:49Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I have no problem with people criticizing my beliefs. If somebody criticizes them, I’ll be able to defend them. Same here. The problem arises when someone else tells me what my position is. As in “if you refer to illegal immigrants as ‘illegals’ you are saying that all Mexicans are vermin who should be shot”. Because that is not a criticism of any belief that I hold, so I don’t need to defend it. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegals-as-a-descriptor-of-people-considered-hate-speech-or-not/838934/132 "2019-08-21T20:54:01Z")
For the people who use “illegals” to refer to those who entered the country illegally, because that is a crime, why would you choose that term over broader terms like undocumented aliens? Because if that’s really what you use it for, I’ll be interested to see why in a particular instance you might choose to exclude people who do not have lawful status but entered lawfully (visa overstayers, e.g.), or in some contexts, people who are lawfully present but lack work authorization. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegals-as-a-descriptor-of-people-considered-hate-speech-or-not/838934/133 "2019-08-21T20:56:24Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Same here. The problem arises when someone else tells me what my position is. As in “if you refer to illegal immigrants as ‘illegals’ you are saying that all Mexicans are vermin who should be shot”. Because that is not a criticism of any belief that I hold, so I don’t need to defend it. That’s horrible! Whoever here said that to you should feel ashamed. Who was it? ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegals-as-a-descriptor-of-people-considered-hate-speech-or-not/838934/134 "2019-08-21T21:44:22Z")
**Moderator Action** This thread has turned into a general discussion about the word “illegals”, which is not relevant to ATMB. Since this is no longer about the rules and moderation of the word here on the SDMB, I am going to close this. Anyone wishing to continue the general discussion is free to start a new thread in a more appropriate forum, and you may of course link back to this thread if you’d like. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegals-as-a-descriptor-of-people-considered-hate-speech-or-not/838934.md?page=6)