# Illinois Dopers - Constitutional Convention? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 31, 2008, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-dopers-constitutional-convention/470493 "2008-10-31T21:08:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-dopers-constitutional-convention/470493/21 "2008-11-01T03:23:48Z")
[QUOTE=Frostillicus] As for those who are afraid that we would be opening a can of worms to special interests that would subvert the public good for private gain, remember that whatever the convention produces must then be approved by a vote of the people before it goes into effect. [/QUOTE] FWIW (nothing) that is the single fact that ultimately swung my vote to ‘yes’. Plenty of special interest groups will take a hard run at the thing, and the process will be expensive, no doubt about that either. But the draft will be required to pass a vote in a general election. Hey, I’ve got a great idea! Maybe Blago can sell another of his planes! That would help offset the cost! Oh wait, probably wouldn’t help.\* \*He owns several, since he has never spent the night in the governor’s mansion in Springfield. He flies back and forth to Chicago instead, at public expense, of course. Recently he was forced to sell one for funds to stop closure of a long list of state parks. Huge public outcry–too bad he promptly refused to release the money from the plane sale. It’s nice Chicago geriatrics like him because he loathed, and I mean _hated_, downstate. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-dopers-constitutional-convention/470493/22 "2008-11-01T04:27:49Z")
Illinois government has reached levels of corruption not normally found outside of Nigeria or Uzbekistan. Three of the last six elected governors have gone to jail, and it’s just a matter of time before Blagojevich makes it four out of seven. (Jim “the Skim” Thompson could have made it five out of seven, but he flipped and turned state’s evidence against Conrad Black.) However, if we hold a Con Con, the first thing it will do will be to repeal the constitutional ban against a progressive state income tax, and Big Government will have opened up yet another teat by which to milk me. I’ll believe that this will lower my admittedly humongous property taxes when my fellow pigs sprout wings. So, I’ll be voting “no”. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-dopers-constitutional-convention/470493/23 "2008-11-01T04:45:18Z")
Yeah, I live in the ghetto of Dupage County, so I’d LOVES me some lower property taxes, but I don’t see that coming, via either a Con Con or torches and pitchforks at County Farm and Manchester. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-dopers-constitutional-convention/470493/24 "2008-11-01T04:57:31Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Had to look up [Blagojevich](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=314742&highlight=gerrymandering) – My word! 4% approval rating! :eek: Yeah. But don’t blame me. I voted Green for Gov. - Rich Whitney - he was the one actually discussing moving school funding to income tax from property tax. And the underreported news of that election was that the Greens got over 10% of the vote! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-dopers-constitutional-convention/470493/25 "2008-11-01T07:21:11Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > And the underreported news of that election was that the Greens got over 10% of the vote! [Well, then!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=269169) Maybe, if Illinois has a new constitutional convention, they’ll be open to some pro-multipartisan reforms. Well worth it, even if it includes/benefits the Illinois Nazis. I hate Illinois Nazis! ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-dopers-constitutional-convention/470493/26 "2008-11-01T07:35:48Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well worth it, even if it includes/benefits the Illinois Nazis. I hate Illinois Nazis! Joke if you want, **BG** , but you never had to actually DECIDE their legal standing. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-dopers-constitutional-convention/470493/27 "2008-11-01T19:33:10Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Joke if you want, **BG** , but you never had to actually DECIDE their legal standing. :mad: Do you really think **they’re** a serious threat, in a solidly Blue state now apparently beginning to trend Green?! ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-dopers-constitutional-convention/470493/28 "2008-11-01T20:13:18Z")
The Green showing really was more representative of how piss poor the other choices were. Not love of the Green Party. We tend to vote for Governor based on the individual more than the party here. Lisa Madigan (highly probable as next up) will likely keep the disaffecteds in the tent. And Dayumn that’s a long op! ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-dopers-constitutional-convention/470493/29 "2008-11-01T20:21:16Z")
Mrs Haven (active in League of Women Voters for Illinois) says it’s a waste of time and money. Yes, there are things that need to be fixed, but fix them one at a time through the legislature. Otherwise, the special interests will “compromise” – you give me this one, I’ll give you that one. And any amended Constitution will have to be offered to the voters, 'tis true, but it will be an all-or-nothing vote. Heck, if ever a Constitutional Convention were required, it’s at federal level – do away with the electoral college, re-write the “right to bear arms” in a way compatible with the 21st century rather than the 18th, etc. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-dopers-constitutional-convention/470493/30 "2008-11-01T20:27:08Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > Heck, if ever a Constitutional Convention were required, it’s at federal level – do away with the electoral college, re-write the “right to bear arms” in a way compatible with the 21st century rather than the 18th, etc. In fact, the Constitution [provides for a convention,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Five_of_the_United_States_Constitution) if called for by 2/3 of both houses of Congress or by 2/3 of the state legislatures. It’s never been done, though. Jefferson, I believe, said the Constitution should be completely discarded and a new one written every 20 years or so, on the grounds that you cannot expect a man to wear a boy’s jacket. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-dopers-constitutional-convention/470493/31 "2008-11-01T20:37:24Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > No no and **NO!** > > Nothing that can be done by Constitutional Convention that cannot be done by the legislative process. The difference is that the Convention process can be dominated by a few highly motivated single issue folks to ramrod through things that would never get through the more laborious legislative approach. Doing via legislature is slower and more thoughtful and y’know, when it comes to modifying a Constitution I like it that way! > > Plus the cost would be outrageous when we are already running into major money problems. > > (One clue to me was my neighborhood Right winger big time supports it.) +1; if they want to make changes, let’s do so deliberately and clearly, one issue at a time. There’s nothing Con Con can accomplish that Amendments can’t. Plus, a very personal reason I’m voting “No”: my mother’s a schoolteacher, only 3 years away from retirement. She’s terrified that if the Con Con happens, her pension’s going to be taken away. If that happens, she’s got nothing - Illinois schoolteachers are not allowed to collect Social Security (although I think they still pay into it.) I’m voting “No” because, as much as I love my mother, I really don’t want her to have to move in with us in three years! ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-dopers-constitutional-convention/470493/32 "2008-11-01T23:37:33Z")
We have the same thing on the Connecticut ballot, but it’s really just so they can add a marriage definition. Not that they come out and say that in the commercials asking you to support it, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-dopers-constitutional-convention/470493/33 "2008-11-01T23:51:06Z")
I’m very ambivalent, tho tending towards no. As others said, any problems could be addressed through legislation. Basically, I’m so scared of the bums we have top to bottom, that I don’t trust them to not screw things up worse. Pretty sad. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-dopers-constitutional-convention/470493/34 "2008-11-01T23:54:42Z")
> [@SmackFu](#): > > We have the same thing on the Connecticut ballot… Would that be the Con Con Con? 😃 (Great, now I’m gonna have the _Moulin Rouge!_ soundtrack stuck in my head all night…) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-dopers-constitutional-convention/470493/35 "2008-11-01T23:56:52Z")
Seemed like a waste of time and money to me. I already voted “no” on this one, for most of the reasons put forth by **DSeid**. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-dopers-constitutional-convention/470493/36 "2008-11-01T23:57:19Z")
If approved, how are the delegates to the convention chosen? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-dopers-constitutional-convention/470493/37 "2008-11-02T00:24:32Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Would that be the Con Con Con? 😃 I’d be against it - I guess I’m Con-Con-Con-Con - and against released felons from joining my cause - Con-Con-Con-Con-Con - We can do that can’t we? Yes we Con! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-dopers-constitutional-convention/470493/38 "2008-11-02T03:17:28Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > **Frostillicus** , which of those are unable to be accomplished without a Constitutional Convention? None, but the point is that they have not been accomplished in the nearly 40 years since the last constitution took effect. They have a much better chance of being enacted if we write a new constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-dopers-constitutional-convention/470493/39 "2008-11-02T03:21:30Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Plus, a very personal reason I’m voting “No”: my mother’s a schoolteacher, only 3 years away from retirement. She’s terrified that if the Con Con happens, her pension’s going to be taken away. If that happens, she’s got nothing - Illinois schoolteachers are not allowed to collect Social Security (although I think they still pay into it.) I’m voting “No” because, as much as I love my mother, I really don’t want her to have to move in with us in three years! I am a teacher as well, and our union is using this line of thought to get us to vote no. However, our pension is a valid contract and is therefore protected by the federal constitution. No future Illinois constitution can legally break this contract. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-dopers-constitutional-convention/470493/40 "2008-11-02T03:22:37Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > None, but the point is that they have not been accomplished in the nearly 40 years since the last constitution took effect. They have a much better chance of being enacted if we write a new constitution. Which leads back to my question: how are delegates to the convention chosen? Why do you, for instance, believe that a convention will provide you better results than your elected representatives have not for 40 years? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-dopers-constitutional-convention/470493.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-dopers-constitutional-convention/470493.md?page=3)