# Illinois wants Gun ID with $1 M of Insurance **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 23, 2009, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-wants-gun-id-with-1-m-of-insurance/487012 "2009-02-23T04:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-wants-gun-id-with-1-m-of-insurance/487012/81 "2009-02-24T21:25:29Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > The insurance coverage required extends to unreported stolen guns. So it serves to incentivize owners to both report stolen guns and prevent their theft. This is fascinating. What other property am I responsible for that is stolen but not reported as stolen? If someone steals my wallet, and uses the money in it to procure the services of a prostitute, am I responsible? ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-wants-gun-id-with-1-m-of-insurance/487012/82 "2009-02-24T21:28:58Z")
Why is everyone focusing on what happens to the gun if it is stolen and used in the commission of a crime? The way I read the language of that bill, it would also cover, say, medical expenses if a gun owner failed to secure a gun properly, and his/her kid found it and accidentally shot a neighbor’s kid. Otherwise, the injured (or dead) kid’s parents (or their medical insurance company) would be on the hook if the gun owner’s personal liability insurance didn’t cover the medical expenses and/or funeral expenses, no? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-wants-gun-id-with-1-m-of-insurance/487012/83 "2009-02-24T21:32:30Z")
> [@](#): > > For anyone who supports this bill: would you also say that it’s a good idea to require a $1 million insurance policy for all automobile owners? Your justification of “compensating the victims” is even stronger in that case: accidental car deaths outnumber accidental firearms deaths about 50 to 1. Most states only require a very small amount of insurance which is woefully insufficient to cover the damages for injuries sustained in even minor collisions. Would upping the minimum liability to $1 million be a fair and reasonable step? Would it be economically feasible, for either drivers or insurance companies? Most of the events that automobile insurance is insuring against aren’t deaths, though. With a car, there’s a broad range of possible damage that can be done, with most of it coming at the low end. It’s those common, low-end cases that auto insurance is priced for. With a gun, though, I’m not really sure there’s an equivalent to a minor fender-bender: You’ve got “nothing happens”, and then you’ve got serious injury or death. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-wants-gun-id-with-1-m-of-insurance/487012/84 "2009-02-24T21:34:36Z")
For the gun owners in this thread, how securely are your guns stored? Mine stays in a steel lock box, which in turn is bolted to a 200 pound piece of furniture. It would take a determined person with a crowbar or a sledgehammer several minutes to get the box loose, and then they’d still have to break the box open. True, there are idiots out there who keep loaded guns under the matress or sofa cushions in a house with children. :smack: But how secure is secure enough? ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-wants-gun-id-with-1-m-of-insurance/487012/85 "2009-02-24T21:35:07Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > 1. Anything that incorporates the Insurance Industry is almost certainly going to be a complete and utter scam. It’ll probably be poorly managed and companies will probably just get richer and richer off innocent law abiding people. Do you think this is true of auto insurance requirements? > [@](#): > > 1. Does this make it even less risky to own a gun and handle it carelessly? Normally if a person is injured by a gun the owner can be sued for damages. If the owner has insurance will that remove the penalty since the insurance company will be footing the cost? > > 2. Isn’t this already factored into home owners insurance? If someone gets shot in a gun owners house accidentally is it any different than them being injured from some other form of negligence from the homeowner? That assumes that a) all gun owners have homeowners’ (or renters’) insurance; and b) that the liability limit on their policies is at least $1 million. I have renters’ insurance, and I think the personal liability portion of it is something like $1,000. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-wants-gun-id-with-1-m-of-insurance/487012/86 "2009-02-24T21:36:14Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > For the gun owners in this thread, how securely are your guns stored? Mine stays in a steel lock box, which in turn is bolted to a 200 pound piece of furniture. It would take a determined person with a crowbar or a sledgehammer several minutes to get the box loose, and then they’d still have to break the box open. > > True, there are idiots out there who keep loaded guns under the matress or sofa cushions in a house with children. :smack: But how secure is secure enough? I keep one loaded next to the bed all the time. Doesn’t do me any damn good for self defense if it’s locked in a steel lock box, now does it? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-wants-gun-id-with-1-m-of-insurance/487012/87 "2009-02-24T22:16:08Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > Why is everyone focusing on what happens to the gun if it is stolen and used in the commission of a crime? The way I read the language of that bill, it would also cover, say, medical expenses if a gun owner failed to secure a gun properly, and his/her kid found it and accidentally shot a neighbor’s kid. Otherwise, the injured (or dead) kid’s parents (or their medical insurance company) would be on the hook if the gun owner’s personal liability insurance didn’t cover the medical expenses and/or funeral expenses, no? This is my understanding as well. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-wants-gun-id-with-1-m-of-insurance/487012/88 "2009-02-24T22:19:54Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > For the gun owners in this thread, how securely are your guns stored? Mine stays in a steel lock box, which in turn is bolted to a 200 pound piece of furniture. It would take a determined person with a crowbar or a sledgehammer several minutes to get the box loose, and then they’d still have to break the box open. > > True, there are idiots out there who keep loaded guns under the matress or sofa cushions in a house with children. :smack: But how secure is secure enough? I have three gun safes holding all but two of my guns. I have a pistol locked in a quick access safe near the bed and a 12 gauge cable locked to a 2" eye screw and hanging inside the closet and above the door. Unless I’m working on one, they are always locked up in one way or another. I’ve got the steel doors, motion detectors, alarms, monitoring service, live in a good neighborhood, etc, so my stuff is pretty safe. I realize that it only takes one determined low life piece of shit to get into my inner sanctum, but I have done pretty much all that I can do to prevent my guns from ending up in the wrong hands. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-wants-gun-id-with-1-m-of-insurance/487012/89 "2009-02-24T22:22:47Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > This is my understanding as well. Wouldn’t homeowner’s policies cover against this already? If there is already liability insurance for other accidents that may cause serious death or dismemberment, why single out guns as requiring separate coverage? Any number of items found commonly in a home are as a dangerous as a gun. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-wants-gun-id-with-1-m-of-insurance/487012/90 "2009-02-24T22:35:20Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > Wouldn’t homeowner’s policies cover against this already? If there is already liability insurance for other accidents that may cause serious death or dismemberment, why single out guns as requiring separate coverage? Any number of items found commonly in a home are as a dangerous as a gun. Soon, people will be required to take out million dollar insurance plans for each knife, toaster, piece of rope, poisonous cleaning fluid, object which can be used as a bludgeon… ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-wants-gun-id-with-1-m-of-insurance/487012/91 "2009-02-24T22:37:38Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Soon, people will be required to take out million dollar insurance plans for each knife, toaster, piece of rope, poisonous cleaning fluid, object which can be used as a bludgeon… Yeah, because most people don’t know how to use those items properly, and they all have the potential to kill people accidentally and instantaneously. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-wants-gun-id-with-1-m-of-insurance/487012/92 "2009-02-24T22:42:52Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > Yeah, because most people don’t know how to use those items properly, and they all have the potential to kill people accidentally and instantaneously. :dubious: That doesn’t reduce the ability to kill with them; that just reduces the likelihood of it happening. Which means lower premiums, not a reduced requirement to buy the insurance. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-wants-gun-id-with-1-m-of-insurance/487012/93 "2009-02-24T22:43:37Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > Wouldn’t homeowner’s policies cover against this already? If there is already liability insurance for other accidents that may cause serious death or dismemberment, why single out guns as requiring separate coverage? Any number of items found commonly in a home are as a dangerous as a gun. As posted above, not everyone with a gun has a homeowner’s policy, and even those who do don’t necessarily have a $1 million personal liability limit. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-wants-gun-id-with-1-m-of-insurance/487012/94 "2009-02-24T22:53:07Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > Yeah, because most people don’t know how to use those items properly, and they all have the potential to kill people accidentally and instantaneously. Just because the probabilities are low, doesn’t mean this sentence isn’t true. Toasters, poison, knives – all are potentially deadly, and stupid people are allowed to use them. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-wants-gun-id-with-1-m-of-insurance/487012/95 "2009-02-24T22:55:45Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > This is fascinating. What other property am I responsible for that is stolen but not reported as stolen? > > If someone steals my wallet, and uses the money in it to procure the services of a prostitute, am I responsible? I find that argument to be disingenuous. I’m pretty sure that everyone sees the vast difference in risk between a stolen gun and a stolen wallet. Sometimes differences of degree lead to different policies. > [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > Why is everyone focusing on what happens to the gun if it is stolen and used in the commission of a crime? The way I read the language of that bill, it would also cover, say, medical expenses if a gun owner failed to secure a gun properly, and his/her kid found it and accidentally shot a neighbor’s kid. Otherwise, the injured (or dead) kid’s parents (or their medical insurance company) would be on the hook if the gun owner’s personal liability insurance didn’t cover the medical expenses and/or funeral expenses, no? I argued that \*one \*justification for the law is the incentive it provides to prevent gun theft. It seems to be a hot topic, with people preferring to ignore the other obvious benefits. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-wants-gun-id-with-1-m-of-insurance/487012/96 "2009-02-24T22:58:58Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > I keep one loaded next to the bed all the time. Doesn’t do me any damn good for self defense if it’s locked in a steel lock box, now does it? My lock box has a quick-open button combination. And I do keep my gun by my bed at night, but every morning it goes back in the lockbox. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-wants-gun-id-with-1-m-of-insurance/487012/97 "2009-02-24T23:01:41Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I find that argument to be disingenuous. I’m pretty sure that everyone sees the vast difference in risk between a stolen gun and a stolen wallet. Sometimes differences of degree lead to different policies. > > I argued that \*one \*justification for the law is the incentive it provides to prevent gun theft. It seems to be a hot topic, with people preferring to ignore the other obvious benefits. What are the obvious benefits, again? 1. You can punish people who buy guns and sell them under the table to criminals…by making the insurance pay for it? (I may not be understanding this part.) 2. You can make a nice profit selling insurance policies for large amounts of money to gunowners, wether they like it or not! 😃 3. People supporting this will be able to pretend they’re making gun owners more responsible, when in actuality people either secure or don’t secure their guns for reasons that are unlikely to be effected by this legislation. What did I miss? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-wants-gun-id-with-1-m-of-insurance/487012/98 "2009-02-24T23:13:02Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > What are the obvious benefits, again? Some people who are unlawfully or negligently shot will be able to easily recover for their loss. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-wants-gun-id-with-1-m-of-insurance/487012/99 "2009-02-24T23:17:11Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Some people who are unlawfully or negligently shot will be able to easily recover for their loss. By charging money to people who had nothing to do with it? ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-wants-gun-id-with-1-m-of-insurance/487012/100 "2009-02-24T23:23:54Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > My lock box has a quick-open button combination. And I do keep my gun by my bed at night, but every morning it goes back in the lockbox. I’m not going to do that. My gun is inside my apartment. My apartment is locked. That really means that nobody else should be in here and able to access my gun. I think locking my doors and windows are all the more I need to do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-wants-gun-id-with-1-m-of-insurance/487012.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illinois-wants-gun-id-with-1-m-of-insurance/487012.md?page=6)