# Illuminati vs. Jesus \[a debate about evolution\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 11, 2012, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889 "2012-07-11T12:55:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/301 "2012-07-11T23:32:32Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > She can also fight back or call for help, while an egg is passive. A small animal that could break through the shell of a “human egg” and eat the contents would find itself smashed with the nearest heavy object if it tried that with a pregnant woman. I think I saw this on “The Big Bang Theory”. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/302 "2012-07-12T00:11:37Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > If you dont believe me, translate the KJV back into greek and then hebrew yourself. The proof is there, dont believe anybody based on word of mouth alone. I tried that. It turns out Jesus is a super karate monkey death car. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/303 "2012-07-12T00:44:02Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I tried that. It turns out Jesus is a super karate monkey death car. Is that the prequel to Robo Geisha? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/304 "2012-07-12T01:01:22Z")
I dunno, but he kept saying “All your cross are belong to us.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/305 "2012-07-12T01:07:45Z")
Welp, he hasn’t been on since 1pm today folks-draw your own conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/306 "2012-07-12T03:33:01Z")
He went extinct? ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/307 "2012-07-12T03:52:22Z")
O.K., reef shark, so you know that the King James Version is always a more accurate translation than any other English-language translation. Great! So you know Greek and Hebrew. Quote for us a dozen Biblical passages in the original language that demonstrate the greater accuracy of the King James Version. Make sure some are from the Old Testament and some are from the New Testament, so we can check on the quality of both the Hebrew and Greek translations. Since most of us don’t know Greek or Hebrew, then explain to us precisely what each passage means in English, being careful to explain what makes the passage hard to precisely translate into English. Then quote for us the same passages in all the following translations: God’s Word Translation Contemporary English Version New Century Version Today’s English Version New American Standard New International Version Living Bible Revised Standard Version Jerusalem Bible New King James Version New Revised Standard Version Revised English Bible New American Bible Confraternity Version New English Bible Knox’s Version New Living Translation I have all those versions, so I can check your references. Alas, I don’t know Greek or Hebrew and don’t own Bibles in those languages. You do know those languages though, so you can tell us all about the fine details of translating from Greek and Hebrew to English. So where did you learn Greek and Hebrew? Anyway, explain for each of the dozen passages and each of the eighteen English-language versions why the King James Version is the best of those eighteen. Golly, I’m honored to be in the presence of a scholar like yourself. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/308 "2012-07-12T05:28:00Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Do you believe in the big bang, or what the bible teaches? Those are the only two options, unless you think youre in the matrix. **Reef** said, “There’s just three options. Ho, ho. Bible, Matrix, or the Big Bang. Go, go!” Just so, Just so. Now _everybody_ know We gots– Hindus in the Matrix. Yo, yo. Buddhists in the Matrix. Yo, yo. Shintos in the Matrix. Yo, yo. Baha’i in the Matrix. Yo, yo. Zoroastrians in the Matrix. Yo, yo. Ain’t no Christians in the Matrix. No, no. Ain’t no Christians in the Matrix. No, no. 'Cause they have read the Bible. Whoa, whoa. Yeah, they have read the Bible. Whoa, whoa. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/309 "2012-07-12T05:42:38Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > He went extinct? He _evolved_. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/310 "2012-07-12T06:08:11Z")
Clevah girl… ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/311 "2012-07-12T06:10:46Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Welp, he hasn’t been on since 1pm today folks-draw your own conclusions. He intelligently resigned? ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/312 "2012-07-12T06:21:23Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Im asking anybody to provide evidence for evolution (not natural selection, or ‘micro-evolution’). Thats the opposite of saying I dont need evidence. https://www.youtube.com/embed/RxrxnPG05SU?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque “Thing’s don’t exist just because you believe in them. THUS SAYETH THE ALMIGHTY CREATURE IN THE SKY!!!” ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/313 "2012-07-12T08:20:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > 1Qlsa(aka “The Isaiah Scroll”) only contains the Book of Isaiah…and there are numerous discrepancies between that scroll and the King James version of that book. Wrong, the Isaiah Scroll emerged as the precursor to the whole hebrew Old Testament, 2000 years after the first bibles were written. This alone should convince a lot of people if they researched it. ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/314 "2012-07-12T08:21:17Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > On evolution- one of the most interesting, and relatively recent, evolutionary stories (in my opinion) is the [origin of birds](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinosaurs_and_birds). When I grew up, dinosaurs were reptiles, and cold-blooded. I recall inklings of the birds = dinosaurs idea, but it was not widely accepted. > > But now, it is. There are lots and lots of [feathered dinosaur](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feathered_dinosaur)fossils- and even [four-winged](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microraptor)varieties! > > If God made everything without evolution, he made it in such a way that fossils and DNA tell a really fascinating (and IMO far more fascinating then the bible) story of life on earth. So you think reptiles turned into birds??? Scales to feathers??? Is this observable? Thanks anyway. ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/315 "2012-07-12T08:22:45Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > It’s not the first version in English. Not even the first CoE sanctioned English version. And King James was pretty clear that accuracy wasn’t the only concern in the translation. Here’s the [wiki link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorized_King_James_Version), for all that it matters. > > The copyright thing also doesn’t stand up. Several other English versions are based on direct and often more modern translations. For example, the [New American Bible](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_American_Bible) features direct translations from Hebrew, Greek, and Latin, rather than an adaptation of the KJV. > > The “accurate” translation of any text from any other language is a rather subjective thing at best, anyway. Direct, literal translation of many phrases often don’t make sense in other languages, so translators need to have some freedom to interpret intent as well, which is itself dependent on social and cultural norms. > > Of all the older English versions of the Bible, the history of the KJV may be the best known, so it boggles the mind how a devotee can get so many of the facts about it wrong. You posted a link about the KJV, thanks! The NAB came after. ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/316 "2012-07-12T08:25:17Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > This is dodging my question by changing the subject. The [question I asked](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15261110&postcount=182) is: > > I’m really curious and would like your answer, because, it seems to me, it’s such an obvious flaw in the creationist view. By the way, I appreciate that you’re trying to answer the flood of questions here. Very impressive. You completely ignored my whole post about fossils and the flood, huh? 2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. How do you explain the fossilized clams on top of Everest? ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/317 "2012-07-12T08:26:58Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’ll cop to being annoyed for about five minutes, but the main point of my objection to the “are there apes in your ancestry?” thing is that one, it’s wrong; two, it’s a stupid thing to say for several different reasons; and three, if **reef shark** is going to blame evolution for an increase in crime, being ‘un-Christian’ about it contradicts his point even though he was also wrong about crime statistics and the start date for the teaching of evolution in schools, not to mention the logic behind the entire proposition. But your DNA is 50% the same as a banana, right? I didnt make this up. ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/318 "2012-07-12T08:28:47Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > That doesn’t answer the question. > Why did he have to wait for a genius to come along? > Why are earlier translations, like the Wycliff bible, or later translations, not perfect? > > IOW what is preventig the Almighty God from writing clearly? > **[Vulgate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulgate)** > > The Vulgate (/ˈvʌlɡeɪt, -ɡət/)\[a\] is a late-4th-century Latin translation of the Bible. It is largely the work of Saint Jerome who, in 382, had been commissioned by Pope Damasus I to revise the Vetus Latina Gospels used by the Roman Church. Later, of his own initiative, Jerome extended this work of revision and translation to include most of the books of the Bible. > The Vulgate became progressively adopted as the Bible text within the Western Church. Over succeeding centuries, it eventually e... The catholic bible isnt the same as the KJV. ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/319 "2012-07-12T08:30:46Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > reef shark, I’m going to take a stab at demonstrating evolution in a fairly visible way, because you seem unmoved by genetic evidence. I expect you’ll dismiss this as you did the evidence for whales and horses earlier, but I’m talking about something that interests me, so it’ll be fun to try to persuade you. > > Back in the Cenezoic, there were a group of birds called the Phorusrhacids, which are more awesomely known as “Terror Birds.” These large, carnivorous birds stood about 10 feet tall and lived somewhere between 30 and 1.8 million years ago, with some evidence suggesting they may have lived even longer. One such Terror Bird had an eagle-shaped skull and is possibly the largest bird ever discovered. They represent an extinct class of birds, and are most closely related to Falcons, Parrots, and Passerines (song birds). > > These Terror Birds, and especially Titanus Walleri, were the apex predators of their time. The fossil record shows the Phorusrhacids increasing in size as the years tick on, with new off-shoot species appearing. I trust you know enough about how animals work to realize that between most species, interbreeding isn’t possible. As new Phorusrhacids appear in the fossil record over the millions of years, we’ve finally arrived at my question to you: without evolution, where did all of these new, distinct, increasingly-massive bird species come from? Did these birds change into a different animal? Do condors, albatross, eagles change into something different? Or are they always birds?? ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/320 "2012-07-12T08:31:59Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Once again, it is marked as a transitional creature. > > [Transitional fossil - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils) > > And once again, it is not only that one, it is clear that you still think there are no transitional fossils so I think you are not here to see the evidence but only to proselytize. Please post your best one. Thank you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889.md?page=17)