# Illuminati vs. Jesus \[a debate about evolution\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 11, 2012, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889 "2012-07-11T12:55:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/361 "2012-07-12T14:22:59Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Thats the only link i posted? Now youre just lying. Dont bear false witness. Do not accuse other posters of lying in this forum. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/362 "2012-07-12T14:25:11Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > But your DNA is 50% the same as a banana, right? Not _mine_- _all humans._ [That means you as much as it does me.](http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/08/0831_050831_chimp_genes.html) ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/363 "2012-07-12T14:41:08Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > But I do have to say that you are only responding. Not actually answering or engaging in debate. [This seems relevant.](http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/293/051/bb8.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/364 "2012-07-12T15:35:20Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Once again, it is marked as a transitional creature. > > [Transitional fossil - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils) > > And once again, it is not only that one, it is clear that you still think there are no transitional fossils so I think you are not here to see the evidence but only to proselytize. > [@reef\_shark](#): > > Please post your best one. Thank you. Stop playing, you are only moving the goal posts, you insisted that there were no transitions, there are actually more than one hundred. So deal with it. A single example is not really good evidence, it is the fact that many others are already found and cataloged by paleontologists that shows how off base you are. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/365 "2012-07-12T15:56:45Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Again, please be specific. We can talk in generalities forever. The person you were responding to was addressing a specific issue (namely your errors concerning whale hip bones). You could at least put in the minimal effort of tying your regurgitated standard creationist arguments to posts that are kinda sorta relevent. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/366 "2012-07-12T16:11:58Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Stop playing, you are only moving the goal posts, you insisted that there were no transitions, there are actually more than one hundred. So deal with it. > > A single example is not really good evidence, it is the fact that many others are already found and cataloged by paleontologists that shows how off base you are. I note that **reef shark** also appears to be dismissing evidence based on visual assessment: if it looks like a horse/whale/whatever, he says it’s a horse/whale/whatever and therefore not a transitional creature, and if it doesn’t look like a horse/whale/whatever he says it’s not related and therefore not a transitional creature. You can’t win against this kind of unscientific handwaving. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/367 "2012-07-12T16:32:08Z")
The [thylacine](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thylacine), or Tasmanian wolf, visually resembles rather closely dogs and wolves. But genetically, it is more closely related to other marsupials like kangaroos and possums than to dogs and wolves. And even more counter-intuitively- dogs and wolves are more closely related, genetically, to _whales_ than to the thylacine. Crocodilians are [more closely related, genetically, to birds](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archosaur#Phylogeny)than to reptiles like lizards and snakes. This was only learned in the last 20 or 30 years, because we did not have access to the kinds of DNA analyses until then. But more careful analysis of the fossil record has matched this, because crocodilians actually share many anatomical traits with birds that they do not with lizards. The fossil record, and evolution, explain this. How do you explain this, **reef shark**? Why are dogs more closely related, genetically, to whales than to the Tasmanian wolf? Why are crocodiles more closely related to birds than to lizards? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/368 "2012-07-12T17:02:07Z")
I think reef shark is looking for an animal that is literally half one animal and half another. Maybe if there was something that was tail & back legs dinosaur, head & chest bird, he’d be satisfied? Oh! Even cooler would be a left/right division. But I guess in the absence of such true transitional animals, we have to accept that there’s no evidence of evolution. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/369 "2012-07-12T17:07:42Z")
Perhaps some sort of lizard, or alligator combined with an avian of some sort? That sort half-animal and half-another? [Such as Teh Crocoduck?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocoduck#In_creationism) ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/370 "2012-07-12T17:07:49Z")
Throw a platypus at him and be done with it, I say. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/371 "2012-07-12T17:14:22Z")
[Have you seen me?](http://i.eatliver.com/2012/9135.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/372 "2012-07-12T17:31:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The [thylacine](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thylacine), or Tasmanian wolf, visually resembles rather closely dogs and wolves. But genetically, it is more closely related to other marsupials like kangaroos and possums than to dogs and wolves. And even more counter-intuitively- dogs and wolves are more closely related, genetically, to _whales_ than to the thylacine. I brought this up earlier and was ignored. So…prepare to be ignored… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![llcoolbj77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb9ed0/32.png) [@llcoolbj77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llcoolbj77)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/373 "2012-07-12T18:02:58Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Are you guys still proud you voted for bush and his dad? I’m so confused. This is probably my prejudice showing in that I generally think of creationists as predominantly republican. So I guess this is one of those weird Illuminati things that we’re mostly ignoring in this thread. Can someone enlighten me? Mostly because I am enthusiastically procrastinating, and really really don’t want to do my “cyber security training.” This thread has helped enormously. ---
**Author:** ![srzss05](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@srzss05](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/srzss05)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/374 "2012-07-12T18:16:00Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I think reef shark is looking for an animal that is literally half one animal and half another. Maybe if there was something that was tail & back legs dinosaur, head & chest bird, he’d be satisfied? Oh! Even cooler would be a left/right division. > > But I guess in the absence of such true transitional animals, we have to accept that there’s no evidence of evolution. Manbearpig. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/375 "2012-07-12T18:44:17Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Thanks for your input. Why didnt you post your best evidence? Because I don’t give enough of a shit about you or your fucking stupid little game. > [@srzss05](#): > > Manbearpig. Totally cereal. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/376 "2012-07-12T19:42:51Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Even cooler would be a left/right division. I hate to derail this thread with an actual fact, but I occasionally see gynandromorphic fruit flies in my research - flies that are divided left/right by sex; male on one side and female on the other. They’re pretty cool. And, of course, I once found a fruit fly that was a normal fruit fly on the left and a fully mature, developed dairy cow on the right, but that was just a fluke. And why it had a fluke on the end of its tail I’ll never understand. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/377 "2012-07-12T19:49:00Z")
[Gynandromorphic butterflies.](http://www.livescience.com/14207-gynandromorphs-butterfly-moths-arthropods-genetic-anomaly.html) They’re so pretty. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/378 "2012-07-12T20:48:29Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > I hate to derail this thread with an actual fact, but I occasionally see gynandromorphic fruit flies in my research - flies that are divided left/right by sex; male on one side and female on the other. They’re pretty cool. > > And, of course, I once found a fruit fly that was a normal fruit fly on the left and a fully mature, developed dairy cow on the right, but that was just a fluke. > > And why it had a fluke on the end of its tail I’ll never understand. > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > [Gynandromorphic butterflies.](http://www.livescience.com/14207-gynandromorphs-butterfly-moths-arthropods-genetic-anomaly.html) They’re so pretty. That is fascinating. See? Some good can come out of this thread after all! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/379 "2012-07-12T21:07:20Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I think reef shark is looking for an animal that is literally half one animal and half another. Maybe if there was something that was tail & back legs dinosaur, head & chest bird, he’d be satisfied? Oh! Even cooler would be a left/right division. > > But I guess in the absence of such true transitional animals, we have to accept that there’s no evidence of evolution. It always amuses me that creationists like Kirk Cameron make fun of the idea of a crocoduck - after all a crocoduck would disprove evolution, and prove some sort of creationism. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/380 "2012-07-13T00:28:33Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > I believe they are connected. There is a group of people controlling which textbooks to put out to the public schools, **which everybody has to pay taxes for.** _(Bolding mine)_ [Minor niggle from a **reef** post a zillion pages back] No, everybody _doesn’t_ have to pay the taxes that finance public schools. In fact _no one_ has to pay those taxes if they prefer not to. As you probably don’t know, **reef** … public schools are paid for by local property taxes. If you don’t want to support _Teh Evil Propaganda Emporiums!!!111_, just don’t own any real estate. Easy-peasy. [/Minor niggle from a **reef** post a zillion pages back] Oh… and by the way, I must give credit where credit is due: you’re correct that there is a group of people controlling which textbooks are used in public schools. That group is called a local school board (or more exactly, [usually] a textbook committee designated by a school board). School boards are not appointed by the Illuminati or even by Jesus. They are elected by local voters, who have the power to vote them out if they don’t like the textbooks being used in the local public schools. Don’t forget to vote, **reef**!!! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889.md?page=20)