# Illuminati vs. Jesus \[a debate about evolution\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 11, 2012, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889 "2012-07-11T12:55:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/441 "2012-07-13T13:07:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Symbiotic relationships evolved together- as far as termites, bacteria were certainly around first, but the specific bacteria that lives inside termites evolved along with the termite- just like the bacteria that live inside us, or inside ruminants. Yes, he’s presupposing that modern ants evolved with modern plants, completely ignoring the ideas behind common descent. He’s going through the Hovind style of strawmen. As to a young earth, it’s completely absurd. He needs to explain the problem of meteors, just to get off the ground. But he won’t. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/442 "2012-07-13T13:26:05Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > I engage in discussion through scientific data. Please respond to post #292 using scientific data. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/443 "2012-07-13T13:43:24Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Again, why are you asking me to prove the bible to you? Are little kids learning the bible in public schools? Its on you evolutionists to come up with a little piece of evidence. And I verified myself on that thread. All the best to you. You have to prove the bible because it is not a given. It is not a fair assumption to say “the bible is 100% accurate”. I don’t get why this is rocket science. The bible is a collection of ancient texts, many of which are horribly flawed > [@reef\_shark](#): > > How did the plants wait millions of years for the CO2 from the animals? Actually, primal earth’s atmosphere was comprised largely of CO2. The earliest plants which evolved photosynthesis were capable of processing this CO2, but it left a toxic byproduct… Which other organisms evolved to take advantage of (much like how you can witness bacteria evolving to be able to consume [Citric Acid](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._coli_long-term_evolution_experiment) and Latex today). The first “plants” and “animals” were single-celled organisms. Of course, [this is not new information](https://www.google.com/search?q=primal+earth%27s+atmosphere&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a). It’s been known for decades. If you had taken the time to do your research – even a quick google search – rather than waiting to be spoonfed, you would understand the answer to this question. But you’re not interested in the answer. You’re simply trying to pose a “gotcha” – “HA! EXPLAIN THAT, STUPID EVOLUTIONISTS!” Of course, even most laymen, let alone most evolutionary biologists, already know your claims, and can explain them. I’m still waiting on proof for _your_ worldview, to be honest. > [@](#): > > How about the plants that depend on animals for fertilization? How do you explain symbiotic relationships? Coevolution. The first land plants, of course, did not rely on animals for fertilization. That should be fairly obvious. Of course, [this is not new information](https://www.google.com/search?q=coevolution&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a). It’s been known for decades. If you had taken the time to do your research – even a quick google search – rather than waiting to be spoonfed, you would understand the answer to this question. But you’re not interested in the answer. You’re simply trying to pose a “gotcha” – “HA! EXPLAIN THAT, STUPID EVOLUTIONISTS!” Of course, even most laymen, let alone most evolutionary biologists, already know your claims, and can explain them. I’m still waiting on proof for _your_ worldview, to be honest. > [@](#): > > Did the termite come first, or its bacteria that helps it digest wood? Huge chicken and egg problems here for evolutionists. No, not really. Of course, [this is not new information](https://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&newwindow=1&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=Ow1&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=termite+bacteria+symbiosis+evolution&oq=termite+bacteria+symbiosis+evolution&gs_l=serp.3...171036.178292.0.178400.35.33.0.0.0.0.318.4100.12j12j5j2.31.0...0.0...1c.VJtqYol9bQI). It’s been known for decades. If you had taken the time to do your research – even a quick google search – rather than waiting to be spoonfed, you would understand the answer to this question. But you’re not interested in the answer. You’re simply trying to pose a “gotcha” – “HA! EXPLAIN THAT, STUPID EVOLUTIONISTS!” Of course, even most laymen, let alone most evolutionary biologists, already know your claims, and can explain them. I’m still waiting on proof for _your_ worldview, to be honest. Seriously, what is this, “explain evolution to retards” hour? The answers to these “questions” you keep posing (and I say “questions” with the same level of sarcasm with which I would say “race realist”) are all out there. It took me 5 minutes on google to answer _every single one_. Of course, you can feel free to keep posing stupid questions, and maybe someone will give you a remedial biology course. Or, you know, maybe not. Because you’re an idiot and a waste of breath. I’m doing this less for your sake and more for the sake of anyone else even remotely interested in knowing the truth. But here, let me do you a favor: > **[Google](http://www.google.com)** > > Search the world's information, including webpages, images, videos and more. Google has many special features to help you find exactly what you're looking for. Next time you have a question, google it, and make sure that the answer isn’t immediately available within the first few results, k? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/444 "2012-07-13T14:09:26Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Seriously, what is this, “explain evolution to retards” hour? The […] Because you’re an idiot and a waste of breath. You can’t insult people like this in Great Debates. This is a formal warning; don’t do it again. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/445 "2012-07-13T14:13:08Z")
Whoops. Note to self: make sure you’re in the right section before posting things like that… ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/446 "2012-07-13T14:27:23Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > I engage in discussion through scientific data. I dont see any of that in your post. See the difference? I don’t see any scientific data in your posts. I see references (and not even direct quotes) to/of the Bible. All I see is “Nuh-uhhhhHH!” as replies. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/447 "2012-07-13T14:50:12Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I don’t see any scientific data in your posts. > > I see references (and not even direct quotes) to/of the Bible. Point of order: he also cited _The Crocodile Hunter._ Don’t you feel silly now? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/448 "2012-07-13T15:11:39Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Point of order: he also cited _The Crocodile Hunter._ > > Don’t you feel silly now? Yes. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/449 "2012-07-13T15:17:36Z")
I blame home schooling. We should force them to make their children attend regular school for maybe 3yrs, between 8 and 16yrs of age. While they can still see with their own eyes. Before they can become this. Christianity _is_ like baseball. Many attend, few understand. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Kirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@Capt\_Kirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_Kirk)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/450 "2012-07-13T16:29:17Z")
So here is a question, if we were created why didn’t God build us better? Our backs are not built for an upright posture and give us no end of trouble. We have an appendix which can be fatal. A womans birth canal is not quite large enough for a baby’s head. Our feet are poorly adapted for walking. Why not do a better job the first time around? **CAPT** ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/451 "2012-07-13T16:58:40Z")
Well, we are supposedly built to resemble God. A better question would be: “Was the first platypus really assembled out of spare parts?” ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Kirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@Capt\_Kirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_Kirk)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/452 "2012-07-13T17:05:42Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Well, we are supposedly built to resemble God. A better question would be: “Was the first platypus really assembled out of spare parts?” So God has a bad back and flat feet? :eek: **CAPT** ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/453 "2012-07-13T17:15:40Z")
> [@Capt\_Kirk](#): > > So God has a bad back and flat feet? That probably accounts for **[Isaiah 66:1](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+66:1&version=NIV):** > [@](#): > > “Heaven is my throne, > and the earth is my footstool." ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/454 "2012-07-13T17:16:35Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > That probably accounts for **[Isaiah 66:1](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+66:1&version=NIV):** God supports the Ottomans? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/455 "2012-07-13T17:30:20Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > … He needs to explain the problem of meteors … There were no meteors on the ark! God, temporarily, made all the aminals vegetarians! 😉 CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/456 "2012-07-13T17:47:15Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > God supports the Ottomans? He has to put his big flat feet on something. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/457 "2012-07-13T20:18:12Z")
> [@Capt\_Kirk](#): > > So here is a question, if we were created why didn’t God build us better? Our backs are not built for an upright posture and give us no end of trouble. We have an appendix which can be fatal. A womans birth canal is not quite large enough for a baby’s head. Our feet are poorly adapted for walking. Why not do a better job the first time around? > > **CAPT** Standard creationist answer comprises handwaving about fallen humanity no longer being in perfect working order. Detail never really explored, because it’s a vacuous argument that doesn’t stand up to scrutiny - easier to change the subject to moon dust, or polystrate trees, or the Grand Canyon, or Clams on Everest, or more likely, each of those things in quick succession. In fact, refusal to stay on topic is the primary defensive weapon in the creationist toolbox. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/458 "2012-07-13T20:34:15Z")
Mods - quick question: can we get quotations marks placed around the word “debate” in the thread title? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/459 "2012-07-13T20:34:36Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Standard creationist answer comprises handwaving about fallen humanity no longer being in perfect working order. Detail never really explored, because it’s a vacuous argument that doesn’t stand up to scrutiny - easier to change the subject to moon dust, or polystrate trees, or the Grand Canyon, or Clams on Everest, or more likely, each of those things in quick succession. > > In fact, refusal to stay on topic is the primary defensive weapon in the creationist toolbox. Another tack they take is to argue that what we perceive as “Design Flaws” are features, not bugs, and the Designer had perfectly cromulent reasons for doing things that way which \*you \*could see if \*you \*had **Faith**. The fact that we don’t all choke to death whenever we swallow is a Good Design, despite the epiglottis looking like a jury-rigged kludge. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/460 "2012-07-13T20:36:18Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > In fact, refusal to stay on topic is the primary defensive weapon in the creationist toolbox. Yes- they lose ground on every individual argument, but they make up for it on volume. Those of us who tried to argue with **GEEPERS** (just to name one) will find the strategy of constant topic changes very familiar. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889.md?page=24)