# Illuminati vs. Jesus \[a debate about evolution\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 11, 2012, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889 "2012-07-11T12:55:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/481 "2012-07-15T04:41:42Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > ? > > These all have explanations, however I see no reason to actually provide you with any of them since you essentially ignored the **contradictions in your own text**. > > I’ll repeat what I wrote so you can do more than just ignore it: > > \*Not only are there two creation accounts there, there is no evidence that the earth was created before the Sun. Further, the account in the first chapter of Genesis is incoherent for a variety of reasons: > > 1. Plants are created a day before the Sun (did they all die off)? > 2. The moon is not a ‘light’, it generates no light of it’s own, it reflects the light of the Sun. > 3. How could their be ‘morning’ and ‘evening’ without the Sun? > > Those just popped out at me. How is this anything other than an obvious creation myth?\* So explain them! Your explanation is, ‘there are explanations’… LOL ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/482 "2012-07-15T04:42:12Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Find some petrified clams and cite them then. First, [live clams on ocean bed](http://www.shamskm.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/bed_of_clams.jpg). See how close together they are? Petrified clams, [read this.](http://www.desertusa.com/mag06/may/shells.html) ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/483 "2012-07-15T04:42:48Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > You have to prove the bible because it is not a given. It is not a fair assumption to say “the bible is 100% accurate”. I don’t get why this is rocket science. The bible is a collection of ancient texts, many of which are horribly flawed > > Actually, primal earth’s atmosphere was comprised largely of CO2. The earliest plants which evolved photosynthesis were capable of processing this CO2, but it left a toxic byproduct… Which other organisms evolved to take advantage of (much like how you can witness bacteria evolving to be able to consume [Citric Acid](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._coli_long-term_evolution_experiment) and Latex today). The first “plants” and “animals” were single-celled organisms. > > Of course, [this is not new information](https://www.google.com/search?q=primal+earth%27s+atmosphere&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a). It’s been known for decades. If you had taken the time to do your research – even a quick google search – rather than waiting to be spoonfed, you would understand the answer to this question. But you’re not interested in the answer. You’re simply trying to pose a “gotcha” – “HA! EXPLAIN THAT, STUPID EVOLUTIONISTS!” Of course, even most laymen, let alone most evolutionary biologists, already know your claims, and can explain them. I’m still waiting on proof for _your_ worldview, to be honest. > > Coevolution. The first land plants, of course, did not rely on animals for fertilization. That should be fairly obvious. > > Of course, [this is not new information](https://www.google.com/search?q=coevolution&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a). It’s been known for decades. If you had taken the time to do your research – even a quick google search – rather than waiting to be spoonfed, you would understand the answer to this question. But you’re not interested in the answer. You’re simply trying to pose a “gotcha” – “HA! EXPLAIN THAT, STUPID EVOLUTIONISTS!” Of course, even most laymen, let alone most evolutionary biologists, already know your claims, and can explain them. I’m still waiting on proof for _your_ worldview, to be honest. > > No, not really. > > Of course, [this is not new information](https://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&newwindow=1&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=Ow1&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=termite+bacteria+symbiosis+evolution&oq=termite+bacteria+symbiosis+evolution&gs_l=serp.3...171036.178292.0.178400.35.33.0.0.0.0.318.4100.12j12j5j2.31.0...0.0...1c.VJtqYol9bQI). It’s been known for decades. If you had taken the time to do your research – even a quick google search – rather than waiting to be spoonfed, you would understand the answer to this question. But you’re not interested in the answer. You’re simply trying to pose a “gotcha” – “HA! EXPLAIN THAT, STUPID EVOLUTIONISTS!” Of course, even most laymen, let alone most evolutionary biologists, already know your claims, and can explain them. I’m still waiting on proof for _your_ worldview, to be honest. > > Seriously, what is this, “explain evolution to retards” hour? The answers to these “questions” you keep posing (and I say “questions” with the same level of sarcasm with which I would say “race realist”) are all out there. It took me 5 minutes on google to answer _every single one_. Of course, you can feel free to keep posing stupid questions, and maybe someone will give you a remedial biology course. Or, you know, maybe not. Because you’re an idiot and a waste of breath. I’m doing this less for your sake and more for the sake of anyone else even remotely interested in knowing the truth. > > But here, let me do you a favor: > > [www.google.com](http://www.google.com) > > Next time you have a question, google it, and make sure that the answer isn’t immediately available within the first few results, k? You are lost. The bible isnt in the curriculum. Prove evolution and dont resort to simple ad hominem. Read the thread. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/484 "2012-07-15T04:44:04Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > And you keep repeating uselessly. Look at the textbooks. God isnt in them. Just the big bang and primordial soup. Theories as fact. Its really simple. So where’s your proof of God and creation? The textbooks are filled with facts that have proof behind them. ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/485 "2012-07-15T04:44:37Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You can’t insult people like this in Great Debates. This is a formal warning; don’t do it again. Actually, you two mods (marley and tomndebb) have only insulted me. I didnt even bring up your grandparents, I just said my grandparents were all human. Then you started crying about your own personal prpoblems. We all lose grandparents, get over it. Youre not that special. I know you would love to get an excuse to ban me though. I will still be back though. ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/486 "2012-07-15T04:46:23Z")
> [@Capt\_Kirk](#): > > So here is a question, if we were created why didn’t God build us better? Our backs are not built for an upright posture and give us no end of trouble. We have an appendix which can be fatal. A womans birth canal is not quite large enough for a baby’s head. Our feet are poorly adapted for walking. Why not do a better job the first time around? > > **CAPT** Its not Gods fault that people slouch and ruin their backs. Nice input. Our appendix is used for immunal purposes, keeping off diseases. Google is your friend. Oh, and you cant walk now? ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/487 "2012-07-15T04:47:23Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > There were no meteors on the ark! > > God, temporarily, made all the aminals vegetarians! > > 😉 > CMC fnord! Meteors create fossils according to evolutionists. LOL ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/488 "2012-07-15T04:48:35Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Standard creationist answer comprises handwaving about fallen humanity no longer being in perfect working order. Detail never really explored, because it’s a vacuous argument that doesn’t stand up to scrutiny - easier to change the subject to moon dust, or polystrate trees, or the Grand Canyon, or Clams on Everest, or more likely, each of those things in quick succession. > > In fact, refusal to stay on topic is the primary defensive weapon in the creationist toolbox. Thanks for summarizing some of my points. Whats yours? Any science to it? Thats what I thought. ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/489 "2012-07-15T04:49:50Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Mods - quick question: can we get quotations marks placed around the word “debate” in the thread title? Any scientific data to contribute? Or can you explain symbioisis now? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/490 "2012-07-15T04:49:52Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Meteors create fossils according to evolutionists. LOL How the _hell_ does that work? ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/491 "2012-07-15T04:50:54Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Another tack they take is to argue that what we perceive as “Design Flaws” are features, not bugs, and the Designer had perfectly cromulent reasons for doing things that way which \*you \*could see if \*you \*had **Faith**. The fact that we don’t all choke to death whenever we swallow is a Good Design, despite the epiglottis looking like a jury-rigged kludge. Yeah and your wisdom teeth too. Looks like humans were a lot bigger once, our jaws are too small now. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/492 "2012-07-15T04:51:57Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yes- they lose ground on every individual argument, but they make up for it on volume. Those of us who tried to argue with **GEEPERS** (just to name one) will find the strategy of constant topic changes very familiar. No science here either. Can YOU explain symbiosis? Over millions of years? ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/493 "2012-07-15T04:53:02Z")
> [@42fish](#): > > Although amid all the swerving and inconsistency, it’s almost touching to see the OP’s devotion to his “whale leg bones are used in mating” claim, even if it’s 99.9% certain that it was the result of regurgitating a half-remembered creationist meme about the wrong critter. Watch those bones when they mate. You see them, they dont lie. ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/494 "2012-07-15T04:54:24Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > So where’s your proof of God and creation? The textbooks are filled with facts that have proof behind them. You lose with this question. For the 15th time (wow), the burden of proof is on evolutionists to prove their BS to be factual and worth being in books as fact. See how you sidestepped all that? ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/495 "2012-07-15T04:55:50Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > First, [live clams on ocean bed](http://www.shamskm.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/bed_of_clams.jpg). See how close together they are? > > Petrified clams, [read this.](http://www.desertusa.com/mag06/may/shells.html) It assumes 6 million years before even talking about the clams. Wow biased much? ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/496 "2012-07-15T04:56:53Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > How the _hell_ does that work? It doesnt. Meteors DONT create fossils. Whats the other explanation? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/497 "2012-07-15T04:59:06Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Actually, you two mods (marley and tomndebb) have only insulted me. We have not insulted you, but I look forward to the board’s response to this late night Gish Gallop. If you want to stick around this board, vowing to break the rules is not a great idea. ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/498 "2012-07-15T04:59:17Z")
Evolution relies on sheer chance and randomness. Again, i refer you to chuck missler. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/496V7OR35vs/hqdefault.jpg "The Science of God - Part 1") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=496V7OR35vs) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/499 "2012-07-15T04:59:26Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > It doesnt. Meteors DONT create fossils. Whats the other explanation? I’ve never heard that evolutionists claim that meteors create fossils. Did you make that up? ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/500 "2012-07-15T05:00:55Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > We have not insulted you, but I look forward to the board’s response to this late night Gish Gallop. If you want to stick around this board, vowing to break the rules is not a great idea. Tell me the rules, and cite where I broke them. BTW, I never felt the need to tell everyone how many of my grandparents were still alive. I dont crave unnecessary sympathy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889.md?page=26)