# Illuminati vs. Jesus \[a debate about evolution\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 11, 2012, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889 "2012-07-11T12:55:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/541 "2012-07-15T05:36:42Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > [Chirality (chemistry) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chirality_(chemistry)) I read that. Explain how that disproves Miller-Urey. ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/542 "2012-07-15T05:40:06Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > You do know you could go back and look, right? When a lot of people use ad hominem, I really would rather do other things. I wanted this mod to tell me which other poster he was talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/543 "2012-07-15T05:40:29Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Who was that other person though?? That was insulting me, that the mod was talking about? That’s easily visible if you scroll back and look - our quote boxes have a little arrow button that will take you to the post that is being quoted. And in any case this is not the right place to discuss the moderation. Will you please drop it and return to the actual discussion? ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/544 "2012-07-15T05:41:38Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > I read that. Explain how that disproves Miller-Urey. > **[Evolution Hopes You Don't Know Chemistry: The Problem with Chirality](https://www.icr.org/article/evolution-hopes-you-dont-know-chemistry-problem-wi/)** > > When the newspaper headline, "Life in a Test-tube," appeared in 1953, the evolutionary community became very excited because they viewed the work of Stanley Miller and Harold Urey as scientific proof that life could have been formed from chemicals by... Chirality is all left handed amino acids, to form a protein. Miller/urey made left and right handed. This alone precludes life. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/545 "2012-07-15T05:43:52Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > [Evolution Hopes You Don't Know Chemistry: The Problem with Chirality | The Institute for Creation Research](http://www.icr.org/article/evolution-hopes-you-dont-know-chemistry-problem-wi/) > > Chirality is all left handed amino acids, to form a protein. Miller/urey made left and right handed. This alone precludes life. They still made lefties. If the right handed AAs preclude life, why would that disprove the left? ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/546 "2012-07-15T05:45:01Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > They still made lefties. If the right handed AAs preclude life, why would that disprove the left? You need ALL left handed. It sounds weird, but I didnt make this up. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/547 "2012-07-15T05:47:38Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > [Evolution Hopes You Don't Know Chemistry: The Problem with Chirality | The Institute for Creation Research](http://www.icr.org/article/evolution-hopes-you-dont-know-chemistry-problem-wi/) > > Chirality is all left handed amino acids, to form a protein. Miller/urey made left and right handed. This alone precludes life. Chirality has nothing to do with left handedness only Read it again. ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/548 "2012-07-15T05:53:32Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Chirality has nothing to do with left handedness only Read it again. No, I was right the first time. Take your own advice. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/549 "2012-07-15T05:56:44Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > You need ALL left handed. It sounds weird, but I didn’t make this up. _Enough_. You want a debate? Fine. It is now time for _you_ to state your case and present your evidence for Creationism. How about _directly_ stating the evidence for the length of time life has existed on this planet..and yet another glib(and deliberately vague) “Read your Bible” is not acceptable. _ **It is now your turn to present your case** _. ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/550 "2012-07-15T05:56:47Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/wmpGUPz5TZU/hqdefault.jpg "10. The Devastation of Evolution - Chirality (Evolution is a "Catastrophic Failure")") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmpGUPz5TZU) chirality defeats miller/urey ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/551 "2012-07-15T05:58:34Z")
Just look up the right handed aminos from miller/urey. Thats it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/552 "2012-07-15T05:58:36Z")
How do you account for there being to different Creation stories in the Bible? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/553 "2012-07-15T05:59:56Z")
While there are flood myths throughout the world, there is no evidence for a universal flood that happened at once. Why? ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/554 "2012-07-15T05:59:56Z")
Miller ureys experiments have been repeated many times, with oxygen present and chirality is not an issue, over time selective pressures cause one form to dominate. [http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/postmonth/2008\_07.html](http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/postmonth/2008_07.html) ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/555 "2012-07-15T06:00:32Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmpGUPz5TZU](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmpGUPz5TZU) > > chirality defeats miller/urey I think this is all I need for now, sorry for the spam, bbl hopefully. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/556 "2012-07-15T06:01:20Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmpGUPz5TZU](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmpGUPz5TZU) > > chirality defeats miller/urey Are you aware there are right handed forms of AAs in nature? [From here.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amino_acid#Standard_amino_acids) > [@](#): > > Of the standard α-amino acids, all but glycine can exist in either of two optical isomers, called L or D amino acids, which are mirror images of each other (see also Chirality). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/557 "2012-07-15T06:02:26Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > I think this is all I need for now, sorry for the spam, bbl hopefully. How long ago did life begin on this planet? Where is the evidence for a world-wide flood? How many animals did Noah have in that ark? ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/558 "2012-07-15T07:29:45Z")
Wow, now that was something to behold. I could almost hear everyone’s “voices” when I was reading that. I don’t think I’ve ever encountered the ‘chirality’ argument before. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/559 "2012-07-15T07:32:44Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Watch those bones when they mate. You see them, they dont lie. Provide a link or reference to documentary evidence of vestigial leg bones being critical or important to the mating process in whales please. ---
**Author:** ![PBear42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PBear42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PBear42)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/560 "2012-07-15T07:45:20Z")
Since this is still going on, but has settled down to a point where **reef shark** should be able answer a simple question, I’ll throw this one into the ring. How did the animals in the Ark get to their present positions? This is a difficult problem. The Americas and Australia are separated from West Asia not only by great distances but oceans. And all this is supposed to have happened in a few thousand years. Also, a great many animals are obligate consumers of things which exist only in their current locations. For example, [koalas](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koala) eat only eucalyptus leaves. How did koalas get from Mount Ararat to Australia, when there were no eucalyptus trees in Asia? How did they cross to the island? For bonus points, why is there no fossil record of them having existed anywhere else? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889.md?page=29)