# Illuminati vs. Jesus \[a debate about evolution\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 11, 2012, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889 "2012-07-11T12:55:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/61 "2012-07-11T14:08:22Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Actually, since evolution was put in the public school books in the '60s, the crime rate has increased steadily. So, you don’t blame increasing crime on the expanded vaccine schedule? Refreshing. ---
**Author:** ![Rubixcube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Rubixcube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubixcube)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/62 "2012-07-11T14:10:33Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > The tailbone has about 9 muscles ATTACHED to the bone. Without them, you cant go to the bathroom. If you dont believe me, remove those muscles and your tailbone and see how long you last. Yes but it’s lost all of it’s original purpose, the vertebrae are normally fused together, if we were “designed” it would have been better to just make it a single bone. Even if you remove that there are two more examples in my post and many more out there. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/63 "2012-07-11T14:13:12Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Cosmic evolution (aka the big bang) has nothing to do with evolution? Correct. > [@](#): > > Its not my theory, its the evolutionists’. Wrong. And there’s no such thing as evolutionists. ---
**Author:** ![Rubixcube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Rubixcube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubixcube)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/64 "2012-07-11T14:14:06Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Cosmic evolution (aka the big bang) has nothing to do with evolution? Its not my theory, its the evolutionists’. The big bang theory is completely separate from evolution. Evolution is about the changes in organisms, the big bang is about the origins of the universe. You can have one without the other although both theories are supported by most scientists and “evolutionists”. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/65 "2012-07-11T14:14:15Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Post these transitional forms, please. > **[Transitional fossil](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils)** > > A transitional fossil is any fossilized remains of a life form that exhibits traits common to both an ancestral group and its derived descendant group. This is especially important where the descendant group is sharply differentiated by gross anatomy and mode of living from the ancestral group. These fossils serve as a reminder that taxonomic divisions are human constructs that have been imposed in hindsight on a continuum of variation. Because of the incompleteness of the fossil record, there That is not the end, as noted, that article is **incomplete**. There are more in the science journals and really, when academia teaches this as basic courses you bet the that the evidence is more than strong. > **[Transitional features](https://evolution.berkeley.edu/lines-of-evidence/transitional-features/)** > **[Understanding Evolution – Your one-stop source for information on evolution](https://evolution.berkeley.edu/)** > > Your one-stop source for information on evolution ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/66 "2012-07-11T14:14:28Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Cosmic evolution (aka the big bang) has nothing to do with evolution? Its not my theory, its the evolutionists’. Creation and Evolution are two separate topics. ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/67 "2012-07-11T14:14:45Z")
> [@Rubixcube](#): > > Yes but it’s lost all of it’s original purpose, the vertebrae are normally fused together, if we were “designed” it would have been better to just make it a single bone. Even if you remove that there are two more examples in my post and many more out there. Ear muscles are vestigial? Which ones? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/68 "2012-07-11T14:15:36Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Post these incremental steps please. Show me where the geologic column exists anywhere (besides the textbook). You can see strata with your eyes. Dude, have you actually been outdoors? [http://www.geography.hunter.cuny.edu/~tbw/ncc/Notes/chap3.landforms/rocks.minerals/strata.jpg](http://www.geography.hunter.cuny.edu/~tbw/ncc/Notes/chap3.landforms/rocks.minerals/strata.jpg) As for the steps, they are the fossil record. Forms are more different the farther you go back. Look, there aren’t serial numbers on fossils, you have to study them. But you are essentially scoffing at something that you haven’t put in the least effort to understand. ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/69 "2012-07-11T14:16:12Z")
Hey! Hold on. What happened to the Illuminati? The OP clearly says: \*\*Illuminati vs. Jesus [a debate about evolution] \*\* So far I don’t see where the Illuminati come into it… ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/70 "2012-07-11T14:16:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Creation and Evolution are two separate topics. Wrong, they both attempt to explain the same thing (origin of everything). I thought this was obvious? ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/71 "2012-07-11T14:17:50Z")
> [@MarcusF](#): > > Hey! Hold on. What happened to the Illuminati? The OP clearly says: > > \*\*Illuminati vs. Jesus [a debate about evolution] \*\* > > So far I don’t see where the Illuminati come into it… Thats because nobody wants to talk about them. Ever hear of the federal reserve act of 1913 (which was illegal)? A lot of the bankers that own the fed are part of this group. ---
**Author:** ![Rubixcube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Rubixcube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubixcube)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/72 "2012-07-11T14:18:00Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Ear muscles are vestigial? Which ones? The ones that allow us to move them, they’re so underdeveloped that not only do they barely function but only a minority of people can use them at all. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/73 "2012-07-11T14:18:05Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Wrong, they both attempt to explain the same thing (origin of everything). I thought this was obvious? You are wrong. Why don’t you look up “evolution” in a dictionary, then get back to us, o.k.? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/74 "2012-07-11T14:18:51Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Wrong, they both attempt to explain the same thing (origin of everything). I thought this was obvious? Evolution doesn’t explain the origin of everything. It explains the development of life once it is here. The universe would still exist if life never formed. Also, your God doesn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/75 "2012-07-11T14:19:39Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > So, you don’t blame increasing crime on the expanded vaccine schedule? Refreshing. In the sense that getting hit with a used jockstrap instead of boxers is refreshing. My hat is off to all of you who are actually taking the time to explain reef shark’s inadequacies in debate to him. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/76 "2012-07-11T14:20:06Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Thats because nobody wants to talk about them. Ever hear of the federal reserve act of 1913 (which was illegal)? A lot of the bankers that own the fed are part of this group. Do you even know what the actual topic of this thread that _you_ started is? If you want to talk “Freeform Spewing”, why don’t you go start a thread titled “Freeform Spewing”? ---
**Author:** ![Rubixcube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Rubixcube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubixcube)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/77 "2012-07-11T14:20:40Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Wrong, they both attempt to explain the same thing (origin of everything). I thought this was obvious? Evolution isn’t about the origin of everything, in fact it doesn’t even explain the origin of life. It discusses the adaptions and changes of organisms over time. ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/78 "2012-07-11T14:20:41Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You can see strata with your eyes. Dude, have you actually been outdoors? > > [http://www.geography.hunter.cuny.edu/~tbw/ncc/Notes/chap3.landforms/rocks.minerals/strata.jpg](http://www.geography.hunter.cuny.edu/~tbw/ncc/Notes/chap3.landforms/rocks.minerals/strata.jpg) > > As for the steps, they are the fossil record. Forms are more different the farther you go back. Look, there aren’t serial numbers on fossils, you have to study them. But you are essentially scoffing at something that you haven’t put in the least effort to understand. Im not arguing against strata, im arguing against the geologic column. If you ever looked at the grand canyon, you would see more clearly defined strata. Which supposedly was caused by the colorado river over MILLIONS of years. However, there are no erosion marks between these strata, indicating very fast erosion. Also, the top of the grand canyon is 4,000 ft higher than where the colorado river enters it, yet people still think that a river can flow uphill somehow. Thanks for your input. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/79 "2012-07-11T14:20:58Z")
> [@MarcusF](#): > > Hey! Hold on. What happened to the Illuminati? The OP clearly says: > > \*\*Illuminati vs. Jesus [a debate about evolution] \*\* > > So far I don’t see where the Illuminati come into it… The Father, Son and Holy Ghost; the original Trilateral Commission. ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/80 "2012-07-11T14:21:43Z")
> [@Rubixcube](#): > > Evolution isn’t about the origin of everything, in fact it doesn’t even explain the origin of life. It discusses the adaptions and changes of organisms over time. Im glad you think that. You must not have gone to a public school in the US. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889.md?page=5)