# Illuminati vs. Jesus \[a debate about evolution\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 11, 2012, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889 "2012-07-11T12:55:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/81 "2012-07-11T14:22:04Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Thats because nobody wants to talk about them. Ever hear of the federal reserve act of 1913 (which was illegal)? A lot of the bankers that own the fed are part of this group. Show me. Give me evidence that a reasonable person would concur shows that the illuminati is a real group, that bankers belong to it and that the federal reserve act of 1913 is a result of actions by said illuminati group. ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/82 "2012-07-11T14:24:06Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Evolution doesn’t explain the origin of everything. It explains the development of life once it is here. The universe would still exist if life never formed. > > Also, your God doesn’t exist. Then how did the stars form? ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/83 "2012-07-11T14:24:08Z")
Can we please get back on topic and discuss how Jesus should be combatting the Illuminati? I recommend a deep cover operation, possiblly with the assistance of the Jesuits, who seem to to be pretty good at the Cloak & Dagger thing. Of course, the Papacy would need to give assurances that joining the Masons wouldn’t result in excommunication, but I think Benedictus would see the wisdom in this. Jesus would need to use his own powers to get the general masses to appear to be going along with power brokers of the world, in order to hopefully lull the secret masters into complacence and be more willing to act openly. I would suggest that the first step in this regard would be to cancal the investigations into LIBOR manipulation. A huge music festival in Ingolstadt would be the coup de grace, of course. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![Rubixcube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Rubixcube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubixcube)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/84 "2012-07-11T14:24:24Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Im glad you think that. You must not have gone to a public school in the US. I’m thinking you didn’t actually as you seem to be under the impression that science is an all or nothing field. It’s not, in fact that’s essentially the opposite of what science is. Many theories are connected but the ones you’re arguing about aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/85 "2012-07-11T14:24:31Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > However, there are no erosion marks between these strata, indicating very fast erosion. What does this mean? > [@](#): > > Also, the top of the grand canyon is 4,000 ft higher than where the colorado river enters it, yet people still think that a river can flow uphill somehow. Surely you don’t think geology is static? We have mountains with seashells embedded thousands of feet above the ocean. That is evidence that strata are continually uplifted, which is how the Grand Canyon was created. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/86 "2012-07-11T14:24:38Z")
I don’t see the appeal of a “freeform spew” thread (although I may borrow that term) where the OP can change the subject every time he feels like it. This thread is about evolution, so let’s stick with that. If the OP wants to try to convince us about Conspiracy Theories and the dangers of the Illuminati, he can open one and only one other thread to do so. ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/87 "2012-07-11T14:26:54Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Show me. Give me evidence that a reasonable person would concur shows that the illuminati is a real group, that bankers belong to it and that the federal reserve act of 1913 is a result of actions by said illuminati group. Any false flag operation. 9/11. The fake WMDs in Iraq. This can take a while. If you look at the purchasing power of the US dollar since 1913, its declined more than 90%. The fed is only good for charging interest, and financing wars. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/88 "2012-07-11T14:28:16Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t see the appeal of a “freeform spew” thread (although I may borrow that term) where the OP can change the subject every time he feels like it. This thread is about evolution, so let’s stick with that. If the OP wants to try to convince us about Conspiracy Theories and the dangers of the Illuminati, he can open one and only one other thread to do so. Technically, the title directly mentions the Illuminati, and the OP mentions a continuation of a 9/11 discussion. How is anyone really supposed to know this is about evolution, other than the fact **reef** has mentioned it occasionally? ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/89 "2012-07-11T14:29:37Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Thats because nobody wants to talk about them. Ever hear of the federal reserve act of 1913 (which was illegal)? A lot of the bankers that own the fed are part of this group. You see, here you go again. This is not an argument/theory/hypothesis about anything. It is is just a statement about an item in the history of the United States with no connection to anything else and no evidence. Seriously, in your earlier thread now moved to ATMB, I suggested you open a new thread if you wanted a proper debate. I also said start by posting a coherent theory - with some evidence to support it. You seem to have missed this bit as your OP is meaningless. OK, you don’t believe in evolution. So what? I can’t see the point of rehashing the evidence for evolution in yet another thread. If you you either have not studied or do not understand the overwhelming evidence for evolution by natural selection no message board thread is going to change your mind. Please, try and pull together your views in a single coherent argument. Not a random collection of statements without any logical linkages. ETA: Apologies to **Marley**. This was posted before I saw his mod comment. Having said that I don’t think this should just be limited to evolution. The OP mentioned the Illuminati and Jesus. I want to know what on earth he is on about! ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/90 "2012-07-11T14:29:48Z")
Surely if we must pin the OP down to one topic (and once you’ve got that taken care of, I have some jello I’d like nailed to the wall) it would be illuminati, not evolution, no? Since that’s what he started out with and everything. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/91 "2012-07-11T14:29:59Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Any false flag operation. 9/11. The fake WMDs in Iraq. This can take a while. If you look at the purchasing power of the US dollar since 1913, its declined more than 90%. The fed is only good for charging interest, and financing wars. Off topic. According to whatever religious sect you belong to, how long ago would you say life began on this planet? ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/92 "2012-07-11T14:30:30Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t see the appeal of a “freeform spew” thread (although I may borrow that term) where the OP can change the subject every time he feels like it. This thread is about evolution, so let’s stick with that. If the OP wants to try to convince us about Conspiracy Theories and the dangers of the Illuminati, he can open one and only one other thread to do so. I believe they are connected. There is a group of people controlling which textbooks to put out to the public schools, which everybody has to pay taxes for. However, I will stick more to the evolution aspect to stay out of trouble here, if thats what you prefer. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/93 "2012-07-11T14:30:50Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Any false flag operation. 9/11. The fake WMDs in Iraq. This can take a while. If you look at the purchasing power of the US dollar since 1913, its declined more than 90%. The fed is only good for charging interest, and financing wars. This isn’t evidence, it’s at best buzzwords. Try harder. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/94 "2012-07-11T14:31:32Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > How is anyone really supposed to know this is about evolution, other than the fact **reef** has mentioned it occasionally? That’s exactly why I am trying to separate the two topics. “Illuminati” is in the thread title, but starting with post #5 most of the discussion was about evolution until someone asked the OP what the heck was going on with the Illuminati thing. ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/95 "2012-07-11T14:31:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Off topic. > According to whatever religious sect you belong to, how long ago would you say life began on this planet? The King James version will answer your question. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/96 "2012-07-11T14:31:57Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > However, I will stick more to the evolution aspect to stay out of trouble here, if thats what you prefer. You can stick to whatever topic you like as I imagine you’d be in the same amount of trouble regardless. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/97 "2012-07-11T14:33:13Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > The King James version will answer your question. I’m not asking The King James version-I’m asking _you_. In years, how long ago would you say life began on this planet? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/98 "2012-07-11T14:33:30Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > I believe they are connected. But you haven’t shown any connections, you have merely asserted them. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/99 "2012-07-11T14:33:47Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > I believe they are connected. There is a group of people controlling which textbooks to put out to the public schools, which everybody has to pay taxes for. However, I will stick more to the evolution aspect to stay out of trouble here, if thats what you prefer. _That’s_ where you’re going with all of this? Then yes, by all means, let’s do the whole Illuminati vs. Jesus in re: evolution discussion in this thread. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889/100 "2012-07-11T14:35:16Z")
> [@MarcusF](#): > > You see, here you go again. This is not an argument/theory/hypothesis about anything. It is is just a statement about an item in the history of the United States with no connection to anything else and no evidence. > > Seriously, in your earlier thread now moved to ATMB, I suggested you open a new thread if you wanted a proper debate. I also said start by posting a coherent theory - with some evidence to support it. You seem to have missed this bit as your OP is meaningless. > > OK, you don’t believe in evolution. So what? I can’t see the point of rehashing the evidence for evolution in yet another thread. If you you either have not studied or do not understand the overwhelming evidence for evolution by natural selection no message board thread is going to change your mind. > > Please, try and pull together your views in a single coherent argument. Not a random collection of statements without any logical linkages. > > ETA: Apologies to **Marley**. This was posted before I saw his mod comment. Having said that I don’t think this should just be limited to evolution. The OP mentioned the Illuminati and Jesus. I want to know what on earth he is on about! Let me simplify for you: I believe the illuminati is behind the scam known as evolution. Evolution is completely contrary to the bible. Is this easier to understand for you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminati-vs-jesus-a-debate-about-evolution/627889.md?page=6)