# Illuminatiprimus—What's with that weird link in your signature? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 21, 2008, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminatiprimus-whats-with-that-weird-link-in-your-signature/468855 "2008-10-21T04:29:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![SuntanTigerTamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@SuntanTigerTamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanTigerTamer)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminatiprimus-whats-with-that-weird-link-in-your-signature/468855/41 "2008-10-22T18:22:43Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It introduces an immediate profit motive on the part of the person giving out the information, which might make them less trustworthy. Hey, after all, what does God need with [del]a spaceship[/del] money? I’m sorry, I don’t buy this line of reasoning. Plenty of us have gone out to Barnes and Noble to purchase a book about a subject we wanted more information on. Yes, of course, the author wants to make money on the book he is selling, but just because someone pays outright for it does not make the information therein less reliable. To decide whether or not these claims are suspect, one needs to look no further than the word “Vampire”. Or “Eternal Life”, for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminatiprimus-whats-with-that-weird-link-in-your-signature/468855/42 "2008-10-22T18:30:14Z")
> [@SuntanTigerTamer](#): > > To decide whether or not these claims are suspect, one needs to look no further than the word “Vampire”. Or “Eternal Life”, for that matter. I agree. But if you are proclaiming your own holiness and wisdom and goodness, and saying it leads to eternal life, for example, I understand why people get suspicious when the good, wise, spiritually immortal person demands mortal money in return. The effect on the plausibility of the belief system is only relative, but if somebody is sharing his wisdom for free, at least he isn’t running a scam for money, and is less likely to hurt people as a result. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminatiprimus-whats-with-that-weird-link-in-your-signature/468855/43 "2008-10-22T18:50:52Z")
> [@SuntanTigerTamer](#): > > You were the one that compared your religion to his. No, actually that would be **WhyNot**. > [@erislover](#): > > Believe in this, and follow all these rules, and you will be saved and live forever in Jesus Christ! I missed the part where you have to pay $20 up front and $10 a year, before being baptized. > [@](#): > > Seems like you started it. See above. Note also that you didn’t mention anything about the vampire cult, Just Christianity. Isn’t that funny? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminatiprimus-whats-with-that-weird-link-in-your-signature/468855/44 "2008-10-22T18:53:31Z")
Even so, **WhyNot** acknowledged before your second post that she was joking and not making a direct Temple of the Vampire-Christianity comparison. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminatiprimus-whats-with-that-weird-link-in-your-signature/468855/45 "2008-10-22T18:59:14Z")
[This Vampire Bible?](http://www.esnips.com/doc/144c9a53-0542-4e08-8ed0-70ebd43e24f5/The-Vampire-Bible) The one that starts with: > [@](#): > > I am a Vampire. > > I worship my ego and I worship my life, for I am the only God that is. > > I am proud that I am a predatory animal and I honor my animal instincts. > > I exalt my rational mind and hold no belief that is in defiance of reason. > > I recognize the difference between the worlds of truth and fantasy. > > I acknowledge the fact that survival is the highest law. > > I acknowledge the Powers of Darkness to be hidden natural laws through which I work my magic. > > I know that my beliefs in Ritual are fantasy but the magic is real, and I respect and acknowledge the results of my magic. > > I realize there is no heaven as there is no hell, and I view death as the destroyer of life. > > Therefore I will make the most of life here and now. > > I am a Vampire. > > Bow down before me. Please, quick… to whom do I send the twenty dollars? ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminatiprimus-whats-with-that-weird-link-in-your-signature/468855/46 "2008-10-22T19:04:30Z")
You can send it to me!😃 Not affiliated with the Vampire Temple ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminatiprimus-whats-with-that-weird-link-in-your-signature/468855/47 "2008-10-22T19:06:31Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > ]Please, quick… to whom do I send the twenty dollars? I think I gave a fair half-sentence summary without having read the thing at all, so you can send it my way if you like. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminatiprimus-whats-with-that-weird-link-in-your-signature/468855/48 "2008-10-22T19:15:07Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > why are they selling rings, lapel pins, pendants and medallions? For as long as I’ve looked into various alternative religions and beliefs, this is one of the things I have the biggest problem with. Not the idea that they sell such things, but the idea that some people get so worked up about it. You can go to any number of stores and buy statues of Jesus or Mary, you can get silver crosses, celtic crosses, one hundred billion variations of bibles and scripture thingamajigs. All manner of doodads and christian items. So why are people bothered by the idea that the Wiccans, Vampires, Ceremonial Magickians, Hoodoo, etc, etc, etc…are selling their own items too? After all, they wouldn’t be selling them if there wasn’t a market, and they gotta make a living too, don’t they? So what if you don’t believe in them or think it’s guff. Hell, go to the Science Museum, Disneyland, the Eiffel Tower. You’ll see trinkets sold at each of these places too. People need to get off the “how dare they sell trinkets!” bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Soggy\_Biscuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Soggy\_Biscuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soggy_Biscuit)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminatiprimus-whats-with-that-weird-link-in-your-signature/468855/49 "2008-10-22T19:15:52Z")
The “Vampire Bible” is only about 20 pages and if you do some searches on the internet, you can find it in .PDF format (no links provided because the legality of these versions is in question). It’s funny, in my research I’ve found that this cult is made fun of by some pretty ridiculous people - self-professed “psivampires” and weirdoes who like to roleplay that they are real vampires think this Vampire Temple is a joke. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminatiprimus-whats-with-that-weird-link-in-your-signature/468855/50 "2008-10-22T19:18:32Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > People need to get off the “how dare they sell trinkets!” bullshit. **Marley** wasn’t bagging on them for selling trinkets. His criticism was about the type of trinkets that they were selling given that they’re supposed to be super secretive. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminatiprimus-whats-with-that-weird-link-in-your-signature/468855/51 "2008-10-22T19:20:21Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > You can go to any number of stores and buy statues of Jesus or Mary, you can get silver crosses, celtic crosses, one hundred billion variations of bibles and scripture thingamajigs. All manner of doodads and christian items. What makes you think I’m a Christian? > [@](#): > > Hell, go to the Science Museum, Disneyland, the Eiffel Tower. You’ll see trinkets sold at each of these places too. I didn’t like Disney World very much as a kid, but I don’t remember them promising eternal salvation. I already addressed this, but what sets people off about religious people selling worldly goods is the _incongruity_. There’s nothing incongruous about the French tourism ministry or the Disney Co. selling products - that’s their purpose and everybody knows it. I should’ve just posted what **hajario** said. The fact that they act secretive and sell membership junk makes them seem about as spiritual as Skull and Bones. The point of behaving that way is to act haughty and superior, in my opinion, and that view is only reinforced by the language used on the vampire site and in its bible. ---
**Author:** ![bobthebuilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@bobthebuilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobthebuilder)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminatiprimus-whats-with-that-weird-link-in-your-signature/468855/52 "2008-10-22T19:25:23Z")
> [@SuntanTigerTamer](#): > > What about someone making grandiose promises if you spend your life doing exactly what a dead guy said? > > You were the one that compared your religion to his. > > I merely said that, whether you like it or not, they’re most likely the same in all relevant senses. Untestable, unprovable, and followers are promised eternal life as long as they do _x_. > > The only problem is that information about his beliefs are not forthcoming. > > BTW Shodan, you’re paying up front too, and it’s costing you a lot more than $29.95. I would just like to let you know I think you have a misunderstanding of the Christian religion. This is not the thread to discuss it if you would like to create one I would attempt to correct your misunderstanding. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminatiprimus-whats-with-that-weird-link-in-your-signature/468855/53 "2008-10-22T19:27:13Z")
Having read or skimmed most of the pdf now, I can offer a quick gloss. It’s the same general pathworking that many Western mystical/spiritual/intellectual traditions seem to be based on. It works sort of like this: -your perception of yourself and the world around you are partially habitual, partially mechanical, partially conscious, and partially malleable. -by striving for authentic perception/action, and continually refining your own mental processes of observation and refinement, you will become more in tune with your True Self/True Will/Sacred Nature, etc… -once begun, such steps are inherently self augmenting as long as you work along the path, you will begin to understand and use the techniques more adroitly. -as you progress, you will find a mental/physical calm as your mind stops chattering so much with ‘background noise’, you’ll feel happier, more energetic, more creative and be able to glory in the self (left handed) or reject the self entirely (right handed). -there is a certain type of power in pulling the wool over your own eyes and then taking yourself seriously. You still can’t change objective reality, but many people mistake consensus reality for objective reality. -ritual, if believed in, has often dramatic powers to effect the consciousness of practitioners via hypnosis. -all hypnosis is auto-hypnosis. -placebo is as good as reality as long as it works properly. Or as the VB puts it in fewer words (yeah, the sucker is a short book): > [@](#): > > The signs of successful Vampirism are as follows to include: > · Your vision clears, brightens and colours become more vivid. > · You feel a refreshing, revitalising physical effect. > · You feel a deep balancing calm within. > · You experience an increase of physical strength. > · Your dream recall improves such that you experience more dreaming > while the dreams themselves intensify in experience. > · You tend to attract the attentions of the Undead in magical ritual. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminatiprimus-whats-with-that-weird-link-in-your-signature/468855/54 "2008-10-22T20:37:43Z")
I am utterly astounded by this thread - neither I nor the Temple has done anything wrong. What is the need of people here to take issue with it? I am not in a position to speak on the Temple’s behalf so I’m not going to, but I am actually pretty upset by this thread and some of the comments within it. That people are willing to be so scornful from a position of ignorance is pretty depressing, and quite what the problem people (including **Marley23** ) have with making available things to buy I really don’t understand. I’ve never once implied that I’m superior to anyone here or that my beliefs are better than anyone else’s due to religion or tried to push an agenda/belief system either, and yet I feel like I’m getting a group kicking. Thanks everyone, you’re really made me feel special. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminatiprimus-whats-with-that-weird-link-in-your-signature/468855/55 "2008-10-22T20:40:41Z")
You ARE special, **Illuminatiprimus**. Just promise not to make me undead! ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminatiprimus-whats-with-that-weird-link-in-your-signature/468855/56 "2008-10-22T20:41:08Z")
> [@](#): > > That people are willing to be so scornful from a position of ignorance is pretty depressing, Dispel your ignorance NOW! Only $19.95! ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminatiprimus-whats-with-that-weird-link-in-your-signature/468855/57 "2008-10-22T20:45:02Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > There’s nothing incongruous about the French tourism ministry or the Disney Co. selling products - that’s their purpose and everybody knows it. > > I should’ve just posted what **hajario** said. The fact that they act secretive and sell membership junk makes them seem about as spiritual as Skull and Bones. The point of behaving that way is to act haughty and superior, in my opinion, and that view is only reinforced by the language used on the vampire site and in its bible. But again (and my point was genuine, 'though my details facetious), none of this “pay the priest, buy the book, would you like a necklace to go with that?” stuff is generally recognized as ridiculous when it’s done by a \*mainstream \*religion. The only difference here, really, is that Vampirism (and Wicca) have chosen some loaded vocabulary and are _new_. Therefore, they’re easy targets for mockery. Any serious criticism along these lines is just as easily leveled at Roman Catholocism, Buddhism and Hinduism, at which point most people get real quiet. Religious groups charge money because they have to pay for stuff. Candles, incense, priestly robes, priestly paychecks, rental for space, flyers for announcements… Some of them do so by begging their congregants for money, and some do it by charging an entrance, monthly, yearly, or lifetime fee. Are some of them fleecing their flock and lining their pockets? Absolutely! Are some of them complete and total fabrications/scams? You betcha! Is this one? Eh. Maybe, maybe not. But “they make you pay for a book!” and “They sell jewelry and use funny words!” are not legitimate ways to determine this. ETA: I’d be more interested in finding out where this money goes - to an individual, or back into the organization - and what it’s spent on - a new car, or new chairs for the sacred space - before deciding it’s a scam. And, honestly, I’m inclined to believe the best of **IP** , who’s always seemed like a good guy and a sensible person. Even if it were to be definitively determined to be a scam, that doesn’t mean it’s \*his \*scam. Lots of people find spiritual comfort in “made-up” religions. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminatiprimus-whats-with-that-weird-link-in-your-signature/468855/58 "2008-10-22T20:46:04Z")
Eh, don’t take it so seriously. Sometimes it’s hard to be a religious poster on these boards, but the best thing to do is keep an open mind and then shrug it off. Also, I must admit some things about your religion make it fairly prone to ridicule. Doesn’t mean it’s right, just throwing that out there. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanTigerTamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@SuntanTigerTamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanTigerTamer)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminatiprimus-whats-with-that-weird-link-in-your-signature/468855/59 "2008-10-22T20:49:10Z")
> [@bobthebuilder](#): > > I would just like to let you know I think you have a misunderstanding of the Christian religion. This is not the thread to discuss it if you would like to create one I would attempt to correct your misunderstanding. Um, no thanks. I think I learned all I need to know in my 15 years spent at various Christian denominations, various conversations with priests, pastors, family, friends, and random E-Strangers. I think I hit it right on the nose. I have no desire to be further proselytized to, but if I have made a FACTUAL error in my description, please PM me. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminatiprimus-whats-with-that-weird-link-in-your-signature/468855/60 "2008-10-22T20:57:01Z")
I’m not really making fun of the religion, just that from the text pasted here so far, it doesn’t do anything to dispel my belief that they don’t really take themselves any more seriously than Discordians. And if it is the case that they wish to change my mind about that, the onus is not on me spending money to disabuse myself of that notion. If they don’t care if I hold that opinion of them or not, then okay: I’ll continue to hold that belief. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminatiprimus-whats-with-that-weird-link-in-your-signature/468855.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illuminatiprimus-whats-with-that-weird-link-in-your-signature/468855.md?page=4)