# I'm a bit annoyed about "cultural appropiation" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 21, 2021, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-bit-annoyed-about-cultural-appropiation/940479 "2021-04-21T21:56:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-bit-annoyed-about-cultural-appropiation/940479/161 "2021-04-26T20:16:49Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Q type conspiracy [![](https://i.imgur.com/RDXvdZa.jpg) ](https://i.imgur.com/RDXvdZa.jpg) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-bit-annoyed-about-cultural-appropiation/940479/162 "2021-04-26T20:19:24Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > Spike: Bad ass Jewish guy. 1. This is an extremely silly thing to state as if it were fact. It’s not even established in the original text. 2. It’s even sillier to use this as a basis for complaining about the raven or ethnicity of an actor cast to play a role. 3. It’s triply silly given the context of the story—a spacefaring future in which the character is from a Mars colony. 4. Why should the producers care anything about this house of cards built on sand? ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-bit-annoyed-about-cultural-appropiation/940479/163 "2021-04-26T20:49:07Z")
OK. Bob, > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > The ethnic background of a fictional future Martian and the casting of a live action version that has the tacit blessing of the creators is a strange hill to die on, but I suppose it’s a step up from some kind of Q type conspiracy or the ‘scientific’ racists we tend to get. OK, that’s fair. I did get a little too bogged in to that. My annoyance is really larger. I am annoyed with the whole idea of cultural appropriation. Cultures borrow from one another, that’s what cultures do. You know damn well Miyazaki has seen Disney films and you know damn every motherfucker in Hollywood worth a grain of salt has seen Kurasawa’s films. But there’s an undercurrent in the West, from liberals (and I am one) that thinks we need to “protect” cultures that are strong enough that the idea of us dumbassess “protecting” them is laughable. It’s patronizing. I AM bitching about the casting of Cowboy Bebop, but it’s not the hill I’m dying on. It’s a Netflix adaptation - it’s probably going to suck regardless of the cast. The hill I want to fight for is for us liberal white people in the West not to pat ourselves on the back over a “diverse” cast when we really, really shouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-bit-annoyed-about-cultural-appropiation/940479/164 "2021-04-26T20:55:08Z")
White people are overrepresented in every phase of the entertainment industry. Of course it means something when a non-white actor is considered for or gets a role that otherwise might have gone to a white person. Diversity is fucking important to non-white people, as a matter of life and death, so, yes, it does mean something when white people take it seriously. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-bit-annoyed-about-cultural-appropiation/940479/165 "2021-04-26T20:59:59Z")
[quote=“Acsenray, post:164, topic:940479, full:true”] White people are overrepresented in every phase of the entertainment industry. Of course it means something when a non-white actor is considered for or gets a role that otherwise might have gone to a white person. Diversity is fucking important to non-white people, as a matter of life and death, so, yes, it does mean something when white people take it seriously. [/quote]I understand that, but what I am trying to point out is there is a built in bias in white people who “take it seriously”. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-bit-annoyed-about-cultural-appropiation/940479/166 "2021-04-26T21:02:47Z")
damnit, I don’t know how to fix that coding. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-bit-annoyed-about-cultural-appropiation/940479/167 "2021-04-26T21:55:32Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Because humans are messy, and don’t stay in the boxes we’ve created for ourselves. In a post-Earth diaspora like _Cowboy Bebop_ , those boxes should be even less defined. So that’s the first requirement I’d have for casting: the cast taken as a whole should be multicultural. Including the extras and special guest stars. But moreover, the actors playing Spike and Faye should have broad range. Spike has 3 phases in his life: he has his mafia phase, his Cowboy Bebop phase, and his end-season Cowboy Bebop phase. Different tones, different presentations. Faye has 3 phases as well. Honestly the casting for these two characters will make or break the series. You wanna make Spike Jewish? Fine. But it’s not a requirement. As for Ed, I’d toss the source material and remake the character emphasizing the girl-hacker angle. I think this character could be improved, made funnier if they show a little flexibility. PS: Two things are going on with Jet Black. One he’s an aggravated pseudo-parent. Two he’s the only main character who gets some closure with his past. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-bit-annoyed-about-cultural-appropiation/940479/168 "2021-04-26T22:05:35Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > As for Ed, I’d toss the source material and remake the character emphasizing the girl-hacker angle. I think this character could be improved, made funnier if they show a little flexibility. Or better yet - keep the original concept where Ed doesn’t really present as a particular gender and where gender presentation doesn’t especially matter to the character. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-bit-annoyed-about-cultural-appropiation/940479/169 "2021-04-26T22:40:10Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > As for Ed, I’d toss the source material and remake the character emphasizing the girl-hacker angle. I think this character could be improved, made funnier if they show a little flexibility. They are going to have to, no question. Not a bad thing, though. The big joke about her was that they thought she was a boy, but then Ed says “laughter. Ed’s a girl!”. and the entire crew was dumbstruck. Well, except maybe Ein, who can’t speak anyway. Because he’s a dog. The gender joke is just not going to fly in 2021, but, to me, to keep the character, she has to always refer to herself in the third person. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-bit-annoyed-about-cultural-appropiation/940479/170 "2021-04-26T22:41:33Z")
Damnit, can somebody tell me what I am doing wrong with the coding here? ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-bit-annoyed-about-cultural-appropiation/940479/171 "2021-04-26T22:46:38Z")
sorry, testing ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-bit-annoyed-about-cultural-appropiation/940479/172 "2021-04-26T22:47:17Z")
last attempt ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-bit-annoyed-about-cultural-appropiation/940479/173 "2021-04-26T22:49:07Z")
---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-bit-annoyed-about-cultural-appropiation/940479/174 "2021-04-26T22:51:48Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > It’s a Netflix adaptation - it’s probably going to suck regardless of the cast. I think that’s the most accurate thing you’ve said here. (Unfortunately. I’d love if it was great but I don’t have high hopes.) > [@armedmonkey](#): > > damnit, I don’t know how to fix that coding. You have to make sure the final “quote” tag is on its own line. It looks like you have other text right after it. Press enter/return after the /quote tag and it should format the quote properly. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-bit-annoyed-about-cultural-appropiation/940479/175 "2021-04-26T23:14:06Z")
Fixed the coding for you there. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-bit-annoyed-about-cultural-appropiation/940479/176 "2021-04-26T23:20:49Z")
Yeah, they’ll probably age Ed up and tone her down, because it’s going to be hard to find a kid actor who could do Ed’s schtick without being nails-on-chalkboard annoying, but if anything, I expect them to lean harder into the non-binary angle. For a show that’s already making a big deal about representation, that’s just a gimme from the source material. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-bit-annoyed-about-cultural-appropiation/940479/177 "2021-04-27T07:49:34Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > But moreover, the actor[…] playing Spike […] should have broad range. John Cho is very, _very_ versatile, from [stoner comedian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_%26_Kumar) to [romantic lead](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selfie_(TV_series)) to [thriller lead](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Searching_(film)) to [Hikaru fucking Sulu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_(film)). And like I said, in any event, he’s [played Jewish](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/See_This_Movie) before. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-bit-annoyed-about-cultural-appropiation/940479/178 "2021-04-27T08:25:26Z")
I’d like to play the devil’s advocate here and say that I wouldn’t mind it if Spike Spiegel were a bad-ass Jewish guy. Not because I care about _Cowboy Bebop_, or even know anything about it beyond what’s been said in this thread, but because bad-ass Jewish guys (characters, not actors) are vanishingly rare in show business, much rarer than bad-ass Asian guys. It would be nice to see one for a change. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-bit-annoyed-about-cultural-appropiation/940479/179 "2021-04-27T12:31:07Z")
I wouldn’t mind somebody making the character a bad-ass Jewish Yakuza gangster at all. But the idea that the character was originally written as a bad-ass Jewish Yakuza gangster is idiotic. The concept that the show’s developers are a bunch of apologists suffering some kind of white man’s guilt/burden and letting that influence the casting in ways unsupported in the original text is not only offensive but still also a strange hill to die on. Setting aside the fact that representation does actually matter, I don’t see a lot of back-patting for the diverse casting. Quite the reverse - I see a lot of resigned acceptance and acknowledgement that the work of proper representation in Hollywood is only just beginning. If there’s any projection going on, it’s not on the showrunners expressing some kind of white liberal guilt and seeking the expiation of their imagined sins. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-bit-annoyed-about-cultural-appropiation/940479/180 "2021-04-27T16:09:37Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > I understand that, but what I am trying to point out is there is a built in bias in white people who “take it seriously”. I don’t really know what you mean by that, but from the point of view of a non-white actor, it’s important that someone in charge looked at that role and didn’t demand that it be filled by a white actor, for whatever reason. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-bit-annoyed-about-cultural-appropiation/940479.md?page=8)