# "I'm a Christian first..........." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 14, 2016, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-christian-first/768520 "2016-10-14T16:08:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-christian-first/768520/1 "2016-10-14T16:08:28Z")
Does that jive with Pence’s support for Trump in the face of the recent video and subsequent sexual impropriety allegations ? He’s made a pact with the devil and doubling down on his support. Do you think if the allegations against Trump referred to other men instead of women it might make a difference for him ? I can only shake my head ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-christian-first/768520/2 "2016-10-14T16:18:12Z")
Sadly, in my experience, when someone says “I’m a Christian first…” they mean “I’m going to do whatever I want, no matter how bigoted, cruel or stupid, and claim it’s supported by my religious beliefs”. Also in my experience, the people who are _actually_ “Christians first” don’t bother to announce it publicly, but instead go about quietly trying to live good faithful lives of service. Pence is an opportunistic bigot who has latched onto another opportunistic bigot in order to further his own political ambitions. His Christianity has little to do with this. I’m not even sure Trump having a gay fling would get him to drop out; instead he’d merely put more distance between himself and Trump and hope for a robust write-in campaign to show support, then run for the top of the ticket in 2020. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-christian-first/768520/3 "2016-10-14T16:20:09Z")
Well there is that Christian principle of “Love the sin, hate the sinner.” So I’m guessing that is how Pence reconciles it in his mind. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-christian-first/768520/4 "2016-10-14T16:25:09Z")
On a phone now so no direct cite: Yesterday on NPR an evangelical preacher was being interviewed about why he was voting for Trump, he was telling followers to vote for Trump because in the bible there are many examples were God uses evil people to fulfill his designs. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-christian-first/768520/5 "2016-10-14T16:37:44Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > On a phone now so no direct cite: > > Yesterday on NPR an evangelical preacher was being interviewed about why he was voting for Trump, he was telling followers to vote for Trump because in the bible there are many examples were God uses evil people to fulfill his designs. :rolleyes: That preacher being a perfect example? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-christian-first/768520/6 "2016-10-14T16:41:07Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > On a phone now so no direct cite: > > Yesterday on NPR an evangelical preacher was being interviewed about why he was voting for Trump, he was telling followers to vote for Trump because in the bible there are many examples were God uses evil people to fulfill his designs. :rolleyes: “Vote Antichrist: It’s time we had a showdown!” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-christian-first/768520/7 "2016-10-14T17:21:54Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Yesterday on NPR an evangelical preacher was being interviewed about why he was voting for Trump, he was telling followers to vote for Trump because in the bible there are many examples were God uses evil people to fulfill his designs. But only evil Republicans. God doesn’t want you voting for evil Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-christian-first/768520/8 "2016-10-14T17:25:00Z")
OK, back at a desktop, found the cite, to be accurate my early post has to be changed from “Preacher” to bible study member, and businessman, still a very Christian fellow. > **[For This Christian N.C. Man, Candidates' 'Morality Issues' Give Pause](https://www.npr.org/2016/10/13/497531552/for-this-christian-n-c-man-candidates-morality-issues-give-pause)** > > Dan Meyer has a strong faith and believes the country must return to biblical principles. For him, the 2016 election presents "a tough, tough choice." > [@](#): > > Paramount for him, he says, is preserving the freedom for him, his children and his grandchildren to express and practice their Christian faith in the United States without government interference. Toward that end, he wants the next president to appoint more conservative justices to the Supreme Court, something Trump has promised to do. > > In his Bible-study group, Meyer stops short of discussing presidential politics, but he drops hints. “You know,” he told his students in his recent class, “the Old Testament is full of situations where God used even evil men to accomplish his will.” If he has a good number of students his influence can not be dismissed, so as **Czarcasm** said this guy is indeed a perfect example of how fake many conservative Christians are showing to be, they reminded me of why I ended up leaving the church and why I ended up becoming an agnostic. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-christian-first/768520/9 "2016-10-14T17:29:07Z")
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. A fundamental part of the Christian faith is forgiveness, so where’s the problem? You might call him a hypocrite if he refuses to forgive someone else in similar circumstances, but otherwise, it’s a very Christian thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-christian-first/768520/10 "2016-10-14T17:32:47Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. > > A fundamental part of the Christian faith is forgiveness, so where’s the problem? You might call him a hypocrite if he refuses to forgive someone else in similar circumstances, but otherwise, it’s a very Christian thing to do. This might fly except that leaders of the Christian right have been insisting that politicians must demonstrate Christian values in both their personal lives and their policy for many years. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-christian-first/768520/11 "2016-10-14T17:40:38Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. > > A fundamental part of the Christian faith is forgiveness, so where’s the problem? You might call him a hypocrite if he refuses to forgive someone else in similar circumstances, but otherwise, it’s a very Christian thing to do. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This might fly except that leaders of the Christian right have been insisting that politicians must demonstrate Christian values in both their personal lives and their policy for many years. I also have to say that it is sounding a lot like the indulgencies of old. So, not only forgiving past sins, but the ones that they will do in the future, among them, most likely by tossing into the trash parts like: Exodus 22:21 “You must not mistreat or oppress foreigners in any way. Remember, you yourselves were once foreigners in the land of Egypt.” Matthew 25:43 “I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-christian-first/768520/12 "2016-10-14T17:42:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. > > A fundamental part of the Christian faith is forgiveness, so where’s the problem? You might call him a hypocrite if he refuses to forgive someone else in similar circumstances, but otherwise, it’s a very Christian thing to do. He doesn’t want to forgive the evil-he wants to _use_ the evil. It’s like forgiving the bank robber that gives him half the loot, and spurning the one that doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-christian-first/768520/13 "2016-10-14T17:44:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This might fly except that leaders of the Christian right have been insisting that politicians must demonstrate Christian values in both their personal lives and their policy for many years. We’re talking about Pence, not “leaders of the Christian right”. But even if he did that, then he was a bad Christian wrt those other guys, but a good one wrt Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-christian-first/768520/14 "2016-10-14T17:50:17Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > We’re talking about Pence, not “leaders of the Christian right”. What’s the Bible say about aiding and abetting the unrepentant sinner you have forgiven? BTW, where did you get the idea that Pence has forgiven him of _anything_? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-christian-first/768520/15 "2016-10-14T17:53:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Let he who is without sin cast the first stone… And a rock came whizzing from the crowd, struck the woman taken in adultery right in the head, killing her instantly! And Jesus said: “Dammit, Mom!” ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-christian-first/768520/16 "2016-10-14T17:55:40Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > But even if he did that, then he was a bad Christian wrt those other guys, but a good one wrt Trump. So the fact that it’s professionally and personally expedient has nothing to do with it? It’s pretty clear this has nothing to do with Pence’s Christianity and his faith is, at best, a very poorly disguised cover. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-christian-first/768520/17 "2016-10-14T17:58:46Z")
I guess when it comes to being forgiven, those who label themselves “Christian” get to go to the front of the line. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-christian-first/768520/18 "2016-10-14T19:45:36Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > OK, back at a desktop, found the cite, to be accurate my early post has to be changed from “Preacher” to bible study member, and businessman, still a very Christian fellow. > > [Christian Man In North Carolina Struggles To Choose A Presidential Candidate : NPR](http://www.npr.org/2016/10/13/497531552/for-this-christian-n-c-man-candidates-morality-issues-give-pause) > > > [@](#): > > > > Paramount for him, he says, is preserving the freedom for him, his children and his grandchildren to express and practice their Christian faith in the United States without government interference. Toward that end, he wants the next president to appoint more conservative justices to the Supreme Court, something Trump has promised to do. > > > > In his Bible-study group, Meyer stops short of discussing presidential politics, but he drops hints. “You know,” he told his students in his recent class, “the Old Testament is full of situations where God used even evil men to accomplish his will.” > > If he has a good number of students his influence can not be dismissed, so as **Czarcasm** said this guy is indeed a perfect example of how fake many conservative Christians are showing to be, they reminded me of why I ended up leaving the church and why I ended up becoming an agnostic. “Freedom to express and practice their Christian faith in the United States without government interference”. What is it that they think a Hillary Clinton administration would do to interfere with people’s private religious practices? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-christian-first/768520/19 "2016-10-14T19:46:37Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > “Freedom to express and practice their Christian faith in the United States without government interference”. What is it that they think a Hillary Clinton administration would do to interfere with people’s private religious practices? Make them bake cakes. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-christian-first/768520/20 "2016-10-14T19:50:12Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > “Freedom to express and practice their Christian faith in the United States without government interference”. What is it that they think a Hillary Clinton administration would do to interfere with people’s private religious practices? Think? They are not \*thinking \*anything. This is not about thinking. This is about obedience to the authorities that tell you that Clinton is horrible. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-christian-first/768520.md?page=2)