# I'm a denier denier **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 7, 2015, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-denier-denier/727272 "2015-08-07T20:54:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-denier-denier/727272/41 "2015-08-08T18:09:21Z")
So…after a raft of contradictions…the actual, empirical measured global CO2 ppm is equal to adding about ~30 billion tons of CO2 to the atmosphere? And whether it’s 20, 30, or 40, what does it matter? It’s a crapton of extra CO2, and it’s being added every year, and it’s going to do _something_ to the climate. That _something_ is probably some warming… ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-denier-denier/727272/42 "2015-08-08T18:25:59Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Gee, I’m afraid to ask, but really **kanicbird** , I picture you as mostly having very peculiar religious fundamentalist views. What is the OP talking about you? Perhaps it depends on your definition, but with that said once that definition would fit me at one time but I evolved past that. I still have what one (such as yourself) may consider very peculiar views, but I would not consider my views to be religious or fundamentalist. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-denier-denier/727272/43 "2015-08-08T18:41:12Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > That _something_ is probably some warming… We can only hope. The theories that it would result in a hastening of another glacier building period (of our current ice age) would be catastrophic for humanity. The latest denial seems to be that the sun can have any effect on climate, and that even with a Maunder type minimum event, which you would expect based on the scant evidence of the past, even a quiet sun can’t stop the horrendous global warming, and we are all in deep trouble. The cool thing about this one, is a lot of us will live long enough to find out. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-denier-denier/727272/44 "2015-08-08T19:00:15Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > We can only hope. The theories that it would result in a hastening of another glacier building period (of our current ice age) would be catastrophic for humanity. The latest denial seems to be that the sun can have any effect on climate, [snip] Actually that bit is a classic boiler plate point from deniers, they tell all that scientists are ignoring what the sun does. When in reality scientists do take it into account to point out that indeed the deniers are still getting things wrong. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/OJ6Z04VJDco/hqdefault.jpg "27 -- The evidence for climate change WITHOUT computer models or the IPCC") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ6Z04VJDco) The CO2 concentrations of the past demonstrate that they did made a lot of difference while the sun was weaker than today. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-denier-denier/727272/45 "2015-08-08T19:24:26Z")
BTW here are the sources that science writer Peter Hadfield refers to in the video: Climate Sensitivity during the Phanerozoic: Lessons for the Future\*. Dana L. Royer. [http://www.searchanddiscovery.com/pdfz/documents/2009/110115royer/ndx\_royer.pdf.html](http://www.searchanddiscovery.com/pdfz/documents/2009/110115royer/ndx_royer.pdf.html) In essence, the best explanation of why while the sun was fainter in the past the earth did not froze permanently was that the increase in CO2 in the atmosphere then explains the warming that took place better than any other ideas. Exploring the faint young Sun problem and the possible climates of the Archean Earth with a 3-D GCM > **[Exploring the faint young Sun problem and the possible climates of the...](https://arxiv.org/abs/1310.4286)** > > Different solutions have been proposed to solve the "faint young Sun > problem", defined by the fact that the Earth was not fully frozen during the > Archean despite the fainter Sun. Most previous studies were performed with > simple 1-D radiative... The problem now is that the sun is not fainter, it still remains in the background and the increase in warming observed now is still explained better by the increase of CO2 that we are dumping in the atmosphere. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-denier-denier/727272/46 "2015-08-08T19:31:29Z")
I deny your denial! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-denier-denier/727272/47 "2015-08-08T19:43:54Z")
Well of course, after all where the deniers would be if they can not use the also denier classic point about “it was much warmer 800 years ago because of all those turbo-charged hand carts”? Actually many scientists have explained why many times before but deniers even deny that those issues were explained before. [http://news.utexas.edu/2010/11/11/climate\_myth4](http://news.utexas.edu/2010/11/11/climate_myth4) > [@](#): > > Climate scientists now understand that the Medieval Warm Period was caused by an increase in solar radiation and a decrease in volcanic activity, which both promote warming. Other evidence suggests ocean circulation patterns shifted to bring warmer seawater into the North Atlantic. As we’ll see in the next section, those kinds of natural changes have not been detected in the past few decades. Charles Jackson noted that when computer models take into account paleoclimatologists’ reconstructions of solar irradiance and volcanoes for the past 1,000 years, the models reproduce the Little Ice Age and Medieval Warm Period. Those events turn out to not be random noise after all. And only quacks advise people about removing all their mercury fillings because of the “dangers”. Remember, this tread is about many types of denial, and you offer many examples on many issues indeed. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-denier-denier/727272/48 "2015-08-08T21:04:55Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > … can’t stop the horrendous global warming, and we are all in deep trouble. PHAW !!! “We stand at the dawn of a new Golden Age of Human Experience”, our great-great-grandchildren will pave their roads out of the gold they spin out of straw without any worries of packed snow making these slippery suckers even more slippery. I think an ice-free Earth is a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-denier-denier/727272/49 "2015-08-08T21:34:18Z")
A golden age with “richess”? Well, at least Greenland will be lovely. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/CY4Yecsx_-s/hqdefault.jpg "23 -- Medieval Warm Period -- fact vs. fiction") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY4Yecsx_-s) And that is also a golden classic denier talking point too. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-denier-denier/727272/50 "2015-08-08T21:40:37Z")
How can anyone deny that all these problems and questions will soon be solved by some bright person in a garage somewhere? ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-denier-denier/727272/51 "2015-08-08T21:51:08Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I’m the _dernier_ vernier denier denier. > > I consider that to be a measured response. I consider a well-shaped pair of buttocks, especially on a lovely woman, one of the nicer aspects of existence. Those who disparage the booty and its importance are misguided fools, and I will gladly bandy words to refute their nonsense I am, in short, a derrière denier replier. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-denier-denier/727272/52 "2015-08-08T21:53:49Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > How can anyone deny that all these problems and questions will soon be solved by some bright person in a garage somewhere? Surely you jest. But I’m optimist that technology will appear to reduce the price for adaptation. Although I’m not much of an optimist that the xenophobia currently observed against immigrants will change soon when the changes get worse. One should notice that the contradictory nature of denial is here with a vengeance, one would ask here to **watchwolf49** if he and others are so sure that CO2 will not warm the earth and the sun will cool down then **why** insist now that a golden age brought by the warming is coming then? He should had made up his mind ages ago! **Habeed** and others are right on pondering how it is that deniers could be functioning when we see that display of “intelligence”. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-denier-denier/727272/53 "2015-08-08T22:29:05Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > How can anyone deny that all these problems and questions will soon be solved by some bright person in a garage somewhere? It’s the internet. Somebody will always deny, it doesn’t matter what you say. Somewhere there is always a troll looking for an argument. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Surely you jest. See? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-denier-denier/727272/54 "2015-08-08T22:30:56Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > It’s the internet. Somebody will always deny, it doesn’t matter what you say. Somewhere there is always a troll looking for an argument. See? Everyone can see how much of a coward you are on avoiding facing your contradictions and your denial of the ADA. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-denier-denier/727272/55 "2015-08-08T23:43:33Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Surely you jest. But I’m optimist that technology will appear to reduce the price for adaptation. Although I’m not much of an optimist that the xenophobia currently observed against immigrants will change soon when the changes get worse. Humans are very good at adapting, see the new EPA rules … > [@GIGObuster](#): > > One should notice that the contradictory nature of denial is here with a vengeance, one would ask here to **watchwolf49** if he and others are so sure that CO2 will not warm the earth and the sun will cool down then **why** insist now that a golden age brought by the warming is coming then? He should had made up his mind ages ago! There’s others ??? I wasn’t aware anyone else advocated global warming as a good thing. Dang, I thought my species of denialism was unique. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > **Habeed** and others are right on pondering how it is that deniers could be functioning when we see that display of “intelligence”. I’m running a little thin here … is human contribution to CO[sub]2[/sub] levels 20 Gt yr[sup]-1[/sup] … 30 Gt yr[sup]-1[/sup] … or 40 Gt yr[sup]-1[/sup]? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-denier-denier/727272/56 "2015-08-08T23:47:49Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > There’s others ??? I wasn’t aware anyone else advocated global warming as a good thing. Dang, I thought my species of denialism was unique. Not unique, and everyone can notice that you did not explain what is it then. Are the scientists wrong and the sun will cool down the earth and CO2 will not warm the earth, or we will see [del]witches[/del] riches in a coming warm golden age? ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-denier-denier/727272/57 "2015-08-09T00:09:11Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Are the scientists wrong and the sun will cool down the earth and CO2 will not warm the earth, or we will see [del]witches[/del] riches in a coming warm golden age? Sure, **GIGO** , anything you say … [del]which[/del] witch scientists? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-denier-denier/727272/58 "2015-08-09T00:38:19Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Sure, **GIGO** , anything you say … [del]which[/del] witch scientists? It is what you said, not my problem if you want to demonstrate to all how forgetful you are. [Are you denying that you claimed that climate scientists were wrong when they reported that solar scientists like Zharkova misspoke when she claimed recently (on the press release not the scientific paper) that we could see something like a mini ice age coming if the sun’s magnetic activity would get lower?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=762128) So, have you officially dropped that cooling nonsense or do you think contradictorily that the opposite is going to happen **anyhow** and a warm age of riches is coming? ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-denier-denier/727272/59 "2015-08-09T00:53:33Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > It is what you said, not my problem if you want to demonstrate to all how forgetful you are. > > [Are you denying that you claimed that climate scientists were wrong when they reported that solar scientists like Zharkova misspoke when she claimed recently (on the press release not the scientific paper) that we could see something like a mini ice age coming if the sun’s magnetic activity would get lower?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=762128) > > So, have you officially dropped that cooling nonsense or do you think contradictorily that the opposite is going to happen **anyhow** and a warm age of riches is coming? My actual position on that thread was … > [@The next Ice age has been postponed, or not?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-next-ice-age-has-been-postponed-or-not/725007/43): > > I think the honest answer to the OPs honest question is … > > No … although the double dynamo is an important discovery in the field of solar physics, it’s not particularly relevant to climate change. Sure, some very slight reduction in solar output would have a very slight effect on global warming. Sure, commercial media will pay people to say “The Ice Age cometh”. We’re just not seeing anything here that rebuts **The Master’s** claim “the next [glaciation] in all likelihood has been postponed until further notice.” If you dispute this, please make your comment on that thread. Witch scientists? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-denier-denier/727272/60 "2015-08-09T00:57:45Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > My actual position on that thread was … > > If you dispute this, please make your comment on that thread. Witch scientists? Again the point was that I reported a miasma of contradictions coming from you, you indeed claimed that there, but right away in the pit you indeed “clarified” (later in the thread I linked too) that the laws of thermodynamics where being broken somehow if Zharkova was dismissed. The point is that you can claim whatever you want, but in reality you are still keeping the mess of contradictions in mind. Again, just very forgetful and hinting to all that you have more like a dizzying intellect. So, can you tell all that the colling idea there was complete nonsense? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-denier-denier/727272.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-denier-denier/727272.md?page=4)