# I'm a woman who doesn't like being called "guy" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 16, 2025, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683 "2025-03-16T21:51:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/223 "2025-03-17T21:29:20Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > – “Ladies”, to me, has a condescending tone to it; except possibly in the phrase “ladies and gentlemen”, and when referring to women who hold such titles in some country’s “nobility”. Or as part of somebody’s stage name, which presumably they chose themselves. So how do you address an entirely female group? I know you mentioned “Hi, all” and “Hi everyone” but that doesn’t work always. Like e.g. you’re in a room with many people, and sat at one table are several women that you wish to address. If “guys” and “ladies” are off the table, I’m not sure which I’d go for. Folks? ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/224 "2025-03-17T21:30:09Z")
I will admit that I very occasionally use the term “you guys” in large mixed groups. But I can understand some people might not like this, and so would not use it if anyone had ever said anything. I know several women who use the term too, which obviously does not change how any specific individual feels about the term. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/226 "2025-03-17T21:51:07Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Like e.g. you’re in a room with many people, and sat at one table are several women that you wish to address. If “guys” and “ladies” are off the table, I’m not sure which I’d go for. Folks? Are we supposed to imagine that sat at multiple other tables are only men, and for some reason I only want to address the women? This is a weird room to start with, but it’s the only image I can come up with in which a specifically female term is going to be useful to distinguish which table I’m addressing. In any other case, if I want to address that specific tableful, I’m going to have to specify the table, not the gender of those sitting at it. There is no way I can imagine in which addressing them as “guys” is going to specify that I mean to address only the women at that table. Or “folks”, for that matter. And “ladies” won’t work, aside from what those particular women may think of being addressed as “ladies”, unless there are no other women in the room; but I wouldn’t use that anyway. The easiest way to address specifically the women at that table would be to go over to the table. If for some reason I can’t do that – say, I’m the main speaker, up on a stage, and it’s going to be awkward for me to climb down and hike across the room – I’d probably say something like ‘People at the table (or maybe ‘those of you at the table’) to the left of the stage who are talking, did you have something to say on this issue?’ If what I want to do is for some reason to address all the women in the room, then I’d address them as ‘women’. Or, if some of the audience are clearly too young to be called women but I want to include them, as ‘women and girls’. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/227 "2025-03-17T21:56:25Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Are we supposed to imagine that sat at multiple other tables are only men, and for some reason I only want to address the women? > > This is a weird room to start with, but it’s the only image I can come up with in which a specifically female term is going to be useful to distinguish which table I’m addressing. The point was just that while there are collective nouns, some are just addressing a set of people, and others seem like the superset. If I’m close to a table and say “hey guys”, the people at that table will likely know I am addressing them. If I say “hey everyone” the people at the next table might look round because, they might think, “that definitely includes me”. And I don’t want any of this to sound like I am disagreeing, or pushing back or whatever. I’m genuinely trying to work out the best choice of language because I do often have to address groups of people. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/228 "2025-03-17T21:59:54Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > If I’m close to a table and say “hey guys”, the people at that table will likely know I am addressing them. If I say “hey everyone” the people at the next table might look round because, they might think, “that definitely includes me”. If the server comes to a table and says ‘how’s everybody doing here?’ do all the people at the surrounding tables think they’re being addressed? Some of this is done with volume of voice and direction of gaze. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/229 "2025-03-17T22:01:36Z")
I think if you’re addressing a room full of people and you specifically want to ask a question to the female portion of the audience that happens to be composed of all ages, you should (someone correct me if I’m wrong) be able to say ‘female’ without it sounding like the incel usage of the word - so I think “Just a question for the female members of the audience…” seems like it should be fine-ish (‘ish’ because if you go on to ask ‘and now a question for the male audience members…’, you’ve potentially left out people who don’t identify as either). ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/230 "2025-03-17T22:05:32Z")
I think it’s primarily Female-as-a-noun that people are finding creepy. j ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/231 "2025-03-17T22:11:09Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > If the server comes to a table and says ‘how’s everybody doing here?’ do all the people at the surrounding tables think they’re being addressed? That’s a very specific context. People know a waiter is unlikely to try to address an entire room. And yes I’m aware direction of gaze and volume etc are key factors, but I think just focusing on these factors means you believe there isn’t a good term to address a set of people that doesn’t sound like it is implicitly meaning _all_ people. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/232 "2025-03-17T22:24:37Z")
Not the offense at being called “guys” in a group. Any one feels how they feel. Not gonna dispute or disregard their feelings, at all. The made up part is all the people claiming victimhood because of a perception of some crap they read online. It’s an easy trap to fall into. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/233 "2025-03-17T22:32:25Z")
What do you mean by “claiming victimhood”? Again, I don’t think that’s a good description at all of somebody saying “this annoys me”. Or even “this offends me.” ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/234 "2025-03-17T22:39:23Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I doubt that very much. When I, with a yarmulke, go through check out in December and get any kind of holiday greeting, I smile and say ‘to you too!’. Should any clerk or cashier wish my sister a “Merry Christmas!” , she responds with a loud and angry “And a happy Hannukah to you!” Lol. I was once wished “Merry Christmas” by a cashier wearing a hijab. I smiled and said, “same to you”. I assume she was trying to be nice. And i didn’t think either of us wanted to spend the time to be more precise in our well-wishes. > [@DocCathode](#): > > D’oh! I forgot that this was _started_ by a woman! So, yes at least one woman is genuinely offended. Offended may be putting to too strongly, but I’m a woman and i prefer other, less gendered, terms. So… At least 2? > [@Dinsdale](#): > > So some unspecified subset of women is offended by what the majority of folk (and usage guides) believe is a perfectly acceptable use of the word “guys.” Is the response for everyone to change their usage to make the offended feel better? Or for the offended to just deal with it? I’m not entirely sure. You know what, take the energy you are spending on this and use it to remove some micro aggression against Black people or trans people instead. I mean that in all seriousness. > [@Mijin](#): > > So how do you address an entirely female group? I know you mentioned “Hi, all” and “Hi everyone” but that doesn’t work always. Like e.g. you’re in a room with many people, and sat at one table are several women that you wish to address. If “guys” and “ladies” are off the table, I’m not sure which I’d go for. Folks? I’d typically just say, “hi”. What would you say if there was one man and a lot of women at the table? I feel like addressing “Ladies and gentlemen” is archaic. At meeting i go to, the speaker usually just says, “hi, I’m John Brown from the AAA, and I’m here to talk about the ABCD.” > [@Mangetout](#): > > “Just a question for the female members of the audience…” seems like it should be fine-ish I think “female” as an adjective is almost always fine. So i see no problem with that. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/235 "2025-03-17T22:40:25Z")
Ok. They go on tiktok or YouTube and read/listen all these poor pitiful people upset because of words. Words that have been used to successfully convey a meaning for years. This is “claiming victimhood” IMO Of course we have to limit/ do away with hate speech and nasty names for people. Seriously. The word “guys” is pretty tame. I’ve heard way worse in a parking lot. If it upsets you, bothers you or offends you, I’m sorry. I’ll endeavor to not use it around you. But use it? I probably will. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/236 "2025-03-17T22:47:13Z")
I’m not offended by using “guys” for mixed groups. I just think there are better options that don’t have the history of using gendered terms for both men and women. If this were happening in a vacuum without the (ongoing) history of language and society ignoring women and trivializing their contributions, there would be no problems. But that’s not where we are yet. For every other word I can think of that started as a gendered word applied to both genders, we’ve moved away from that usage. “Guys” is the one holdout. Unlike the others, it’s a more informal, almost slangy, usage, so maybe it will prove to be the exception and truly become gender neutral. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/238 "2025-03-17T23:27:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > “Waitress” and “actress” are diminutive forms of the original “waiter” and “actor”. You sure about that? I suspect that they are feminine, not diminutive, forms, and it is you who “diminutizes” them. Which, in itself, says something. mmm ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/239 "2025-03-17T23:32:41Z")
I already said in the OP my resistance is worn down. Happy now? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/240 "2025-03-17T23:36:16Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > You know what, take the energy you are spending on this and use it to remove some micro aggression against Black people or trans people instead. I mean that in all seriousness. I have no idea what this means. You are suggesting that I regularly direct micro aggressions at such people? I’m not entirely comfortable with the idea of micro aggression. I’m not sure that he mere fact that someone takes exception with something means that was a micro aggression. Unless that is how we are defining the term. Which strikes me as rather silly. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/241 "2025-03-17T23:59:10Z")
Got a cite that they’re diminutive? The feminizing suffix [-ess](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-ess#English) derives via French and Latin from Ancient Greek -ισσα. It has had only one meaning all along: female, not diminutive. They’re not synonymous. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/242 "2025-03-18T00:07:57Z")
The way I normally handle things: - **Addressing a Formal Group** - **Addressing an Informal Group** - **Addressing Children (16 and under):** – “Boys and girls…” - **Addressing Friends/Acquaintances and children (where you know everyone’s cool with it):** I believe “ladies/gentlemen” are on equal footing, as are “guys/gals” and “boys/girls”, and “guys” can be acceptable for a mixed group you know well, without causing offense. Am I doing it wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/243 "2025-03-18T00:14:08Z")
This thread made me think and I thank you for it. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/244 "2025-03-18T00:24:08Z")
I’d like if nobody put words in my mouth that I’m “offended.” To me, _offended_ is making a Federal case of it. What I am is _annoyed_. That means keeping my mouth shut about it in public, while reserving the right to bitch about it in ::checks forum title:: oh yeah, this forum is called “In My Humble Opinion.” Well, what do you know about that! In case I haven’t made it clear already to those who think I’m out of line, I’ve clammed up about it all these years, my resistance browbeaten down and long since retired. Aren’t yous happy now? Or yous’re not satisfied with making me knuckle under and comply, yous want to make me _like it_ too? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683.md?page=13)