# I'm a woman who doesn't like being called "guy" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 16, 2025, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683 "2025-03-16T21:51:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/245 "2025-03-18T00:28:55Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > To be honest, I’m surprised Johanna is **offended** by the term, Um, having read post #244, let me amend that to “Johanna is **annoyed** by the term.” I think we’re very used to using the word “offended” in this kind of situation. But FWIW, my understanding was that Johanna wasn’t getting all huffy and indignant and combative, just that it bothers her and she wishes people wouldn’t use “you guys” to refer to groups she’s in. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/246 "2025-03-18T00:35:05Z")
We’ve seen how Beck starts with “offended” and immediately extrapolates that to “screaming.” Give me a break. When wounded, one screams. When annoyed, one _grumbles_. I am _grumbling_. Anything not clear about that? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/247 "2025-03-18T00:37:45Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > If I inadvertently use “guys” to people like Johanna, I hope they can forgive me and understand that it absolutely did not indicate even the tiniest smidgen of derogatory intent based on gender. Well, I get that. I’m not grumbling at individual persons. I’m just grumbling at the overall situation that we’ve gotten ourselves into. ---
**Author:** ![Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8baadc/32.png) [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicest_of_the_Damned)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/248 "2025-03-18T00:41:43Z")
> [@Sylvanz](#): > > Exactly. I’m a feminist. I’m not an incredibly active one, but I hold those ideals. Don’t presume damage where there may well not be any. “Guys,” in the midwest is like “coke,” in the south. It’s a regionalism, and context specific. I grew up in the 70s in the Boston area and guys and you guys were gender neutral and I still use them. I think the point about regionalisms is a good one. Most of my local childhood culture and language has disappeared and gentrification is driving things out even faster now. People who grew up here can’t afford to stay here. So when someone comes along and tries to take away another thing that never bothered anybody before it chafes. I never heard a single complaint about you guys until maybe a few years ago. They tried to claim the word “jimmies” (as in ice cream sprinkles) is racist (there is no evidence for this) and take that away from us too. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/249 "2025-03-18T00:54:56Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > I already said in the OP my resistance is worn down. Happy now? I was trying to ask a sincere question, which was how you reacted to women who use the term “guys” to refer to other women, and whether you let them know that the term bothers you. If you want old men like me to empathize with you and maybe try to be more careful about how we speak, a little less sarcastic a response to an innocent question would be appreciated. And for the record, I am neither Southern, nor a hick and I do use the term “y’all” frequently. That kind of stereotyping doesn’t serve you well. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/250 "2025-03-18T00:56:24Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > I was trying to ask a sincere question, which was how you reacted to women who use the term “guys” to refer to other women, and whether you let them know that the term bothers you. I had already given the sincere answer to that in my OP. > [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > And for the record, I am neither Southern, nor a hick and I do use the term “y’all” frequently. That kind of stereotyping doesn’t serve you well. Who was that addressed to? I never said anything of the sort. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/251 "2025-03-18T00:57:28Z")
I apologize for that. I thought since you went to the trouble of starting a thread and a poll you were a bit more than annoyed. If I misconstued your meaning, its all my fault. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/252 "2025-03-18T01:03:08Z")
My apologies. After reviewing the thread I see that remark should have been directed to @needscoffee. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/253 "2025-03-18T01:08:06Z")
I don’t understand why calling women _ladies_ is bad. I’m not contesting it, everyone else says so, well so be it. I’ll go along with that. Even though I can’t help wondering why there’s no problem saying _gentlemen_, but _ladies_ is somehow bad. OK, if you say so. So far we’ve learned: We can’t say _women_. We can’t say _ladies_. We can’t say _gals_. We can’t say _womenfolk_ by the transitive property, because we’ve already ruled out _women._ We’re stuck saying “There exists no acceptable word for addressing women except _guys_. Please ignore all the instances in which it’s exclusively male.” What does all that say about women’s status in this world? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/254 "2025-03-18T01:12:33Z")
nm…meant to post more ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/255 "2025-03-18T01:12:37Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That said, I think it’s telling that in a thread where the OP and several other women have said they don’t like being referred to as a guy, there are several men who are trying to justify their doing so by saying that they’ve never had a woman object to this. I am justifying by saying that the word Guy is no Gender neutral. But I will listen if anyone says some word or term is something they prefer not to be used towards them. > [@Sylvanz](#): > > Just as a clarification, I am a woman, and have used the word guys inclusively as long as I can remember. My sister doesn’t like it, and proudly told me how she corrects waitstaff. 🙄 > > I don’t use it if I know it isn’t welcome… Right, that is the way to go. > [@raventhief](#): > > I too dislike hearing women called “females”. Yes, and I know a woman who also doesnt like that term. She especially gets riled if someone says “men” and then"females’. “Male & female” is okay, men & woman- sure. But NOT Men and females. So I listen and try not to use it that way, > [@CairoCarol](#): > > I think it is safe to conclude that _some_ women object to the use of “guys” as a non-gendered plural. This is completely alien to me, and as a woman, I cheerfully state that you are welcome to refer to any group I’m in as “guys.” I concur- unless someone has asked me not to. > [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > You realize that the words waiter, actor, and hero have always been gender-neutral, right? Yes, but if i am referring to a group that I know includes both I use “waitstaff”. > [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > I will admit that I very occasionally use the term “you guys” in large mixed groups. But I can understand some people might not like this, and so would not use it if anyone had ever said anything. A reasonable compromise. > [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1015780/11): > > As a cis-gendered white male, it is kind of hard for me to get insulted. Personally, I am not happy about the term “white” as applied to me. I am a rather dark olive skinned, with brown hair (what’s left that isnt grey) and brown eyed person. If I get a bit of sun i am as dark as most hispanics- and somehow they arent considered 'white" which kinda annoys me. But you know, if some clerk checks the box “white” for me, I dont complain. > [@Johanna](#): > > I already said in the OP my resistance is worn down. Happy now? Anyone can have a pet peeve, that’s just being human. > [@Tibby](#): > > - **Addressing Children (16 and under):** > – “Boys and girls…” When we were in HIgh School, one shop teacher (all male class) called us all boys. A couple of the black students objected. We talked it over, and the teacher agreed not to call out a single one of us as “Boy”, and the black students withdrew their objections about the group being called boys. > [@Johanna](#): > > We can’t say _women_. > We can’t say _ladies_. I will use either, but now I am careful about “females” unless i also use "males. Gals? maybe. Girls? Only like if “the girls in the steno poll” like “the boys in the band”. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/256 "2025-03-18T01:16:27Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, and I know a woman who also doesnt like that term. She especially gets riled if someone says “men” and then"females’. “Male & female” is okay, men & woman- sure. But NOT Men and females. So I listen and try not to use it that way, Yeah, that unparallel type of construction is particularly jarring, but the problem, at least to me, with the words “male” and “female” instead of “men” and “women” is the words sound so clinical to me. Nobody had to tell me to avoid them – they just sound “off” and depersonalized. A “male” and “female” don’t even have to be human. You can talk about the male of a species and the such. The words don’t sound natural to me when talking about people in a conversational manner. Like I said, clinical, scientific, cold is what they connote to me. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/257 "2025-03-18T01:18:27Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > When we were in HIgh School, one shop teacher (all male class) called us all boys. A couple of the black students objected. We talked it over, and the teacher agreed not to call out a single one of us as “Boy”, and the black students withdrew their objections about the group being called boys. I believe using the singular ‘boy’ is best avoided due to its potential racist undertones—except in a clear father-to-son context. However, the plural ‘boys’ is generally acceptable in all other situations. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/258 "2025-03-18T01:27:02Z")
> [@Tibby](#): > > I believe using the singular ‘boy’ is best avoided due to its potential racist undertones—except in a clear father-to-son context. However, the plural ‘boys’ is generally acceptable in all other situations. I concur. But in this case a nice compromise was reached. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/259 "2025-03-18T01:45:57Z")
Speaking of shop teachers, that reminds me of my middle school woodshop instructor. Every week, he held a classroom meeting where he’d fire off woodworking questions at us. If you answered incorrectly, you had to march to the front of the class and belt out a made-up song—in a squeaky falsetto—about the topic you flubbed. He seemed convinced that singing in a ‘feminine’ voice was the ultimate humiliation for a boy, so I prayed like crazy not to mess up. Alas, the prayer went unanswered. To this day—almost 6 decades later, I can still sing the ridiculous ditty I composed about ten-penny nails! ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/260 "2025-03-18T01:54:06Z")
I posted in the pit thread that this one branched out of. I’m a woman, and I’m also mildly annoyed by the use of “guys” to include me. Not profoundly offended, not screaming in rage, not going to bite your head off for using it, but, if you actually ask me, it’s my _preference_ that you don’t. Although, I have a colleague who tries to be inclusive by writing emails that start “hi guys and lady” (I’m the only woman in that team) and that’s much more irritating to me. I’ll settle for being included in “guys”…only even this, I haven’t bothered to ask him to stop. It’s like being annoyed at dropping your pen, vs being annoyed at dropping your pen _twice_. Not going to rage at anyone all day about it, but yeah, I’d rather that not happen. I’m probably included in “guys” pretty often and I don’t notice because I’m thinking about other stuff or just not paying attention. I probably use it sometimes, because it’s very common on the culture I’ve lived my life in. Habits are hard to break. But I’ve thought about it, and I don’t really like it, and I know others don’t like it, so I try to avoid using it. And, if asked, I’ll share my preference. I noticed a lot of people acknowledge that they won’t use it “if I know it bothers someone”. Thing is, I think most people it may bother are like me; not gonna raise a stink, but we’d tell you if you asked. But since people don’t really ask, the annoyance persists (like the pen that rolls off the table often, because the table isn’t level …). I find that it’s actually pretty easy to avoid saying it. I don’t feel the need to label a group before addressing it. Most sentences work out fine if you just drop it, and once in a while you maybe have to just restructure your sentence. In the “table” scenario above, I wouldn’t address a table as “hey ladies”, I’d just say “hey” or “excuse me” to get their attention. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/261 "2025-03-18T02:00:11Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > You’ve never encountered somebody using “guys” for a mixed group of people? I have never encountered the manufactured scenario where someone addresses a group as “guys” and the group is confused whether or not the speaker is referring to everyone or just the men. Because context. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/262 "2025-03-18T02:02:03Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > Thing is, I think most people it may bother are like me; not gonna raise a stink, but we’d tell you if you asked. In the associated poll to this thread, 6 women have said they don’t like it but don’t say anything, and none have voted that they would speak up. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/263 "2025-03-18T02:02:26Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > You know what, take the energy you are spending on this and use it to remove some micro aggression against Black people or trans people instead. I mean that in all seriousness. > > I have no idea what this means. You are suggesting that I regularly direct micro aggressions at such people? > > I’m not entirely comfortable with the idea of micro aggression. I’m not sure that he mere fact that someone takes exception with something means that was a micro aggression. Unless that is how we are defining the term. Which strikes me as rather silly. Yes. I think almost everyone does. Most of us also direct micro-friendliness at random strangers, too. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/264 "2025-03-18T02:10:21Z")
I missed the poll, I haven’t seen the results. It’s not really worth speaking up about, in most cases. You may get any sort of response, ranging from “oh, I never thought about that, I’ll try to avoid using it” to “who the fuck are you to tell me how to speak” and really, it’s just not worth the bother. That doesn’t mean it isn’t annoying, though! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683.md?page=14)