# I'm a woman who doesn't like being called "guy" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 16, 2025, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683 "2025-03-16T21:51:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/305 "2025-03-18T16:33:18Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > “Firer” and “braker” sound weird at first, but might catch on. Here in Chicago there seems to be an effort to call local officials “alders” instead of aldermen/women/persons. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/306 "2025-03-18T17:23:29Z")
No “fire fighter”? That’s what I use. Or are we just looking for clipped terms? ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/307 "2025-03-18T17:35:09Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > So far we’ve learned: > We can’t say _women_. > We can’t say _ladies_. > We can’t say _gals_. > We can’t say _womenfolk_ by the transitive property, because we’ve already ruled out _women._ > We’re stuck saying “There exists no acceptable word for addressing women except _guys_. Please ignore all the instances in which it’s exclusively male.” > What does all that say about women’s status in this world? You think that’s bad? I forget where I read it, so it may not be completely accurate, but I once read that if you search through history, there is no group name for women (seamstresses, nuns, etc.) that hasn’t at some time been used as slang for prostitutes. > [@Mangetout](#): > > Depends on your audience, I suppose; ‘ladies and gentlemen’ omits non-binary members of the audience (if present) and they may or may not care about that. Now I’m going to have to look something up. I’m sure I once watched a clip of **Kinky Boots** that included something like “ladies and gentlemen (pause) and all the rest of you.” ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/308 "2025-03-18T17:40:32Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > I forget where I read it, so it may not be completely accurate, but I once read that if you search through history, there is no group name for women (seamstresses, nuns, etc.) that hasn’t at some time been used as slang for prostitutes I have a text of actual slang used by English criminals (I forget what century) for use in Dungeons & Dragons game. Indeed a brothel is a ‘nunnery’ or ‘abbey’ . There is debate over whether Shakespeare intended this meaning with “Get thee to a nunnery!” So while the ‘fact’ you gave may not be true it is certainly plausible. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/309 "2025-03-18T18:01:42Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > No “fire fighter”? That’s what I use. The reference was to the “fireman” on historical trains – who was I believe in charge of stoking the fire, not of fighting it. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/310 "2025-03-18T18:21:06Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > sound Prescriptivism doesn’t work, but talking about things does. The difference is often only that prescriptivism demands or expects immediate compliance. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/311 "2025-03-18T18:50:06Z")
Thanks. I enjoyed learning that Terry Pratchett wasn’t the first person to use _Seamstresses_ that way. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/312 "2025-03-18T19:06:37Z")
Ah, completely missed that. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/313 "2025-03-19T07:10:45Z")
"There is debate over whether Shakespeare intended this meaning with “Get thee to a nunnery!” (Quote functionality is misbehaving - that was DocCathode) That could have had an … uh … an interesting debate in my high school final exams. I wish I’d known! ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/314 "2025-03-19T13:01:31Z")
Our English teacher told us that, though I can’t recall the careful terms she used. Given it was Texas, maybe something catchy like “house of ill repute”. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/315 "2025-03-19T13:07:05Z")
AFAIK All of Shakespeare’s plays contain dirty jokes. OTTOMH Henry V Hotspur says “My horse is my mistress!” Hamlet Hamlet says to Ophelia “I meant my head in your lap. Thought you I meant count-ry matters?” One of the Henry IV plays has the prince mention that Falstaff and the gang spend their time at “leaping houses”. This is another slang term for brothel ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/316 "2025-03-19T20:00:25Z")
> [@sunacres](#): > > My preferred solution to all of this is to consciously eliminate gender from language in any context where it is irrelevant. Not easy to do, and awkward at times, but for me it’s the right direction to go. > > As a middle school teacher I found this challenging at first but with practice it becomes comfortable and natural, at least until new habits tangle with entrenched traditions. Sexist language is a problem, and working to mitigate it is a laudable goal. By the way, I am with the OP in that I would not address a woman, or group of women, as guy(s). Nor “dude”, which is its own can of worms… However, especially with middle-school students (who are required to study a bit of foreign languages, right?) it is important to emphasize the (not always sharp) difference between gendered/sexist language and grammatical gender. There are languages relatively close to English like German and French where this issue is much closer to the surface. > [@sunacres](#): > > One summer I gave a presentation at a national convention of model railroaders about my use of model trains in the classroom. When I mentioned the roles I had _forgotten_ the change, and my audience (of mostly autistic old geezers like me) completely freaked out, as I should have known they would. I have never worked for the railways, so I wonder what terms the female crewmembers actually prefer and insist upon? It is not inconceivable that you may have offended them by _not_ calling them firemen, carmen, brakemen, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/317 "2025-03-19T20:11:34Z")
Makes me wonder about nuts and bolts. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/318 "2025-03-19T20:15:11Z")
Since we’re talking about gendered and genderless titles and terms of address, I figured I’d mention the customary titles of members of the US Armed Forces. Despite the historical gender imbalance, most generic titles for those members are free of an explicit gender tag. Army = Soldier Marine Corp = Marine Navy = Sailor Space Force = Guardian But my own military alma mater, as well as the Coast Guard, have a bit of implicit sexism built in. Air Force = Air **man** Coast Guard = Coast Guards **man** It’s always bugged me. Especially the Air Force. We came out of the Army; we didn’t have to go backwards. (Of course, no one was thinking in these terms in 1947, but it’s still unfortunate.) ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/319 "2025-03-19T20:17:27Z")
No one says “aviator”? (cf aviatrix) ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/320 "2025-03-19T20:22:18Z")
That’s not the official title. And for the Air Force, it’s baked into the junior enlisted ranks: Airman Basic, Airman, Airman 1st Class, and Senior Airman. ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/321 "2025-03-19T20:46:48Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > AFAIK All of Shakespeare’s plays contain dirty jokes. OTTOMH Don’t want to start a hijack, but may I recommend “Shakespeare’s Bawdy” by Eric Partridge (a highly respected lexicographer of unconventional English). > **[Shakespeare's Bawdy](https://www.worldofbooks.com/products/shakespeare-s-bawdy-book-eric-partridge-9780415050760)** > > This classic of Shakespeare scholarship begins with a masterly introductory essay analysing and exemplifying the various categories of sexual and non-sexual bawdy expressions and allusions in Shakespeare's plays and sonnets. The main body of the work... j ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/322 "2025-03-19T21:40:43Z")
Relax—you’re not starting a hijack. You’re merely continuing one. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2025, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/323 "2025-03-20T00:07:55Z")
I’ll take “guy” any day of the week instead of “shug” or “hun” or “dear” or “sweetheart”. I’m also the only woman in my department, which sometimes causes the casual “hey guys” to turn into “hey guys and…girl?” Of course, we could always fall back on “y’all,” but there’s sort of an unspoken agreement in the department to not sound _too_ southern. I also sign my name in a block labeled “DRAFTSMAN” whenever I’ve completed a drawing. I can’t imagine this ever changing, not just because there’s no room in the title block for “DRAFTSPERSON,” but the work culture here is such that a change like this would be mocked for being PC or woke. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2025, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/324 "2025-03-20T00:12:23Z")
> [@WolfpackJeep](#): > > I’ll take “guy” any day of the week instead of “shug” or “hun” or “dear” or “sweetheart” Only once in my life has as stranger repeatedly asked me to smile. I was at Steak N Shake, getting a shake at happy hour. The man behind the register thought I looked sad. I explained that I was happy and this is how I generally look. He insisted that shakes sold at happy hour could only be sold to happy people. He would not leave me alone until I forced a big grin. Even at the time, I was thinking “So besides all the major crap, this is how a woman feels everytime a stranger tells her she would be prettier if she smiled?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683.md?page=17)