# I'm a woman who doesn't like being called "guy" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 16, 2025, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683 "2025-03-16T21:51:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/102 "2025-03-17T11:02:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Guy is now gender neutral , and that is the way language works. But it’s not _just_ gender-neutral; it’s _also_ used to refer to males specifically. Which, I think, is why it bothers the people it bothers. (And when it’s used to specifically refer to males, what’s the parallel for females? “Guys and girls”? “Guys and gals”? “Guys and dolls”? I don’t think there’s anything that _someone_ woouldn’t object to. But that’s a whole nother issue.) ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/103 "2025-03-17T11:08:18Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Another UK doper here. I would say “guys” is pretty much the standard, generic non-gendered word for a group here. Alternatives are much less common. I wouldn’t have said I’ve heard ‘guys’ used for mixed gender groups that frequently here in the UK, but I also can’t think of a common alternative, so now I’m wondering if I just didn’t notice. 🤔 I do find it annoying when writers assume all their readers are men. I particularly remember reading a Martin Gardener book as a child where he not only assumed the reader was a man, but that he’d have a wife. Modern authors are much better about this sort of thing, even if they still use a generic ‘he’ for convenience. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/104 "2025-03-17T11:17:14Z")
How about ‘humans’. Kind of a jokey way of addressing people, but this guy pulls it off well: > **[We Built A Low Budget SCI-FI COCKPIT & It Looks INCREDIBLE!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdOWG937COw%2F)** > > Creating a mind-blowing Sci-Fi inspired cockpit for our Submarine special fx tutorial series from scratch for next to no budget! Tommy takes you through his ... ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/105 "2025-03-17T11:35:51Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I wouldn’t have said I’ve heard ‘guys’ used for mixed gender groups that frequently here in the UK, but I also can’t think of a common alternative, so now I’m wondering if I just didn’t notice. Yeah if there’s a safer alternative to guys I’d definitely like to know it. Words like “everyone” and “people” don’t work in as many sentences. But, thinking about it, it is possible to use a basket of alternatives to avoid saying “guys”. If guys does cause offense, then I would switch to doing this. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/106 "2025-03-17T11:53:48Z")
> [@sunacres](#): > > So I try to use “folks.” Same here. Another alternative is “all of you” as in “What can I bring all of you?” And yeah, I’m not a guy… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/107 "2025-03-17T11:54:37Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Women and girls collectively = womenfolk. An archaic word, but ready to be revived if needed. This is the first I’ve ever heard that “womenfolk” can include children. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Not very often. What do you say when you want to refer to boys and men? “Males”, of course. I use “female” and “male” as nouns equally often, and in the same contexts. Maybe it isn’t all that often, but it does come up… Like, say, in this very thread. Do \ object to being called “guys”? > [@SanVito](#): > > I don’t mind guys at all. It’s strongly preferable to grown women being referred to as ‘girls’ or ‘ladies’. Grown women being referred to as “girls” is a major pet peeve of mine, as well, especially considering that men are almost never called “boys”. Also note that an attractive woman is referred to by a word that means “infant”, while the comparable terms for a man are either “a large piece of something” or “a male animal kept for breeding purposes”. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/108 "2025-03-17T11:58:08Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Yeah if there’s a safer alternative to guys I’d definitely like to know it. > Words like “everyone” and “people” don’t work in as many sentences. I have a colleague from Liverpool who says ‘youse’. I do enjoy hearing his accent on calls, but I’m not about to start saying ‘youse’ or ‘y’all’ or ‘folks’ because they aren’t used round here. I blame the French for this problem: English had a perfectly good word for singular ‘you’ (thou/thee), and then the Normans invaded and people started using the plural for just one person to indicate respect, and eventually it was adopted for everyone and we can’t easily make the distinction. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/109 "2025-03-17T12:13:42Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > After so many years of it my resistance is worn down; although I may not object vocally, I still hate it. One guy at work explained that it is intended to make women feel that they are an equal part of the work group and are not in any way being objectified. The theory being that women will feel comfortable because of that. In that regard, it doesn’t bother me at all. I’ve never heard a guy or guys call me or my girl friends “guys” when they are chatting us up in a social setting. I think that would be kind of weird. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/110 "2025-03-17T12:14:11Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Yeah if there’s a safer alternative to guys I’d definitely like to know it. > Words like “everyone” and “people” don’t work in as many sentences. ‘Folks’, is probably as close as it gets, but it doesn’t roll off the tongue in the same way as ‘guys’. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/111 "2025-03-17T12:49:42Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > There are no good alternatives in common use. I refuse to use “y’all” or “yous” or “youse” because I’m not a Southern hick. Just wanna point out in a thread on eliminating bias from language, “Southern hick” is, even jocularly, hackles-raising. Y’all might wanna avoid that as well. I think in discussions like this, folks want bright lines, and end up yelling past one another. The following things seem clear to me: 1. “Guys” is often used, by folks across the gender spectrum, as a gender-neutral term. 2. “Guys” is often used, again by folks across the gender spectrum, as a term to refer to men and boys specifically. 3. “Guys” is one of many terms like that: men, mankind, he, dude, and in recent times bro or bruh. 4. There is a meaningful number of women and girls who don’t object to “guys” being used as a gender-neutral term. 5. There is also a meaningful number of women and girls who do object. Can we all agree on all of these things? My conclusions from this are: a) English tends to treat masculine as the default, invisible gender, synonymous with humanity. Women are a deviation from the default, such that “guys” and “man” can refer to a mixed-gender group, but “gals” and “woman” never do. And that’s a problem. b) There are alternative terms that work in almost every context. c) I may as well use an alternative term when I can. d) If I make a mistake, I’m not going to beat myself up, nor will I lose my shit at someone else who uses “guys” or “dude” in a gender-neutral fashion. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/112 "2025-03-17T12:59:09Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > 1. There is also a meaningful number of women and girls who do object. > > Can we all agree on all of these things? A good summary. I am not sure whether (5) is true here in the UK though. However, I always like to err on the side of caution, and just the _question_ of whether this might potentially be offensive, makes it not the safest option. I think I’m going to try going with “folks” plus supplementing with “everyone”, “people”, “y’all” for situations where “folks” doesn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/113 "2025-03-17T13:00:50Z")
That seems reasonable. I think I’d probably add: You can’t really control how people will address you (in gender terms or otherwise) and sometimes what seems innocent to them will seem offensive to you; talking about it in general (as we’re doing here) is a good way to get thoughtful people to think more about it, and is probably the most productive thing you can do if you want change to happen, but some people won’t change and the best you can hope for is that the thing you dislike about them will die when they do. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/114 "2025-03-17T13:02:19Z")
If you have good rapport with the group you are addressing, and the situation is informal, there are jokey options such as “OK children…” and “Alright you lot…” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/115 "2025-03-17T13:17:45Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > If you have good rapport with the group you are addressing, and the situation is informal, there are jokey options such as “OK children…” and “Alright you lot…” I kinda like the idea of “bitches” being used for mixed-gender groups, but it’s not gonna work for a variety of reasons. Like, you _really_ gotta read the room on that one. > [@Mijin](#): > > I am not sure whether (5) is true here in the UK though. I deliberately said “meaningful” to describe the number of objectors, because even if it’s just one women in twenty who objects, it’s enough that it means I should be aware of the possibility. It’s not like people who object to the word “tangerine,” who are such a vanishingly small group that I don’t need to worry about them. ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/116 "2025-03-17T13:19:50Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Grown women being referred to as “girls” is a major pet peeve of mine, as well, especially considering that men are almost never called “boys”. Can’t speak for the US, but in the UK we say “Lads” as a commonplace - as in A Lads’ Night Out. I posted a photo of that sort of thing, with some comment about The Lads, just a couple of weeks ago. Two in our sixties and one over seventy. j ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/117 "2025-03-17T13:21:32Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I kinda like the idea of “bitches” being used for mixed-gender groups, but it’s not gonna work for a variety of reasons. Like, you _really_ gotta read the room on that one. Yeah, that one pretty much only works if you live with your team. Interestingly (but tangentially) I think if anyone tried to address a mixed or all-male group as ‘girls’ or ‘ladies’, it would very likely be taken to imply that the group was misbehaving in some stereotypically-female way. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/118 "2025-03-17T13:21:45Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > _We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal…”_ 😉 No it should read “We hold these truths to be self-evident that _all y’all_ are created equal…” ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/119 "2025-03-17T13:22:31Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Like, you _really_ gotta read the room on that one. I belong to a group where I’m the oldest member by a noticeable margin, and they frequently look to me for wisdom and guidance. (_Why_ they expect these from me is a mystery outside the scope of this anecdote.) When I address them collectively, I generally call them “larvae.” Which is (a) another example where reading the room is mandatory, and (b) hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/120 "2025-03-17T13:30:36Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > How about ‘humans’. I’ve actually noticed this within the past year or so. Not in direct address, but in referring to others. I will see, for example, someone post a picture of themselves and their friends on Facebook, with the caption, “A great night out with some of my favorite humans.” Or talking about the local community theater: “These humans put on a wonderful show, don’t miss it!” That kind of thing. It strikes me as weird, and I can’t figure out what connotation “humans” has that wouldn’t be equally provided by “people.” ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683/121 "2025-03-17T13:36:28Z")
I imagine it’s just a mild joke. Calling people ‘humans’ might imply you’re an alien, at least that is my impression of how it is sometimes understood on this planet - I’ve only been here a little over half of one of your centuries. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-woman-who-doesnt-like-being-called-guy/1015683.md?page=7)