# I'm Against Capital Punishment but I'm Not Crying Today **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 13, 2021, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-against-capital-punishment-but-im-not-crying-today/930462 "2021-01-13T18:58:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-against-capital-punishment-but-im-not-crying-today/930462/63 "2021-01-16T03:42:02Z")
What a Horrific Shit-Show this entire thing has been for 45 years. Shame, Shame on the ‘system’. All I can think is she is in a better place. The cold, hard ground. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-against-capital-punishment-but-im-not-crying-today/930462/64 "2021-01-16T14:33:02Z")
I find myself agreeing with the before-9/11 Dennis Miller: (Paraphrasing) When it comes to the death penalty, could I be the one to throw the switch? Could I take responsibility for the death of another person? I’m not sure. In the case of someone like Tim McVeigh, though, I could do him with a bucket of water and a bad extension cord. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-against-capital-punishment-but-im-not-crying-today/930462/65 "2021-01-16T15:33:23Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](#): > > The alternative? A lifetime in prison, with food, warmth, shelter, educational opportunities, reading material, television, etc. A lot of these folks wouldn’t even have that on the outside. The implication that prison is providing a high enough quality of life to inmates that society is doing them a favor by elevating them out of their prior impoverished lives is pretty gross. ---
**Author:** ![cincinnatus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cincinnatus/32/7990_2.png) [@cincinnatus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cincinnatus)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-against-capital-punishment-but-im-not-crying-today/930462/66 "2021-01-17T01:54:31Z")
This may puzzle many people. I strongly favor the death penalty, but I am generally opposed to execution of it. Why? There are heinous crimes for which people should to be taken out of society, and should be incarcerated the rest of their lives. They are detestable souls who should not walk among us. There are many times, however, that people have been wrongly convicted and sentenced. Execution stops their having a chance at freedom from later findings. This line of thought only holds if death-penalty-convicts cannot get out of jail on appeal. It seems, maybe unjustly, that so many criminals are freed who are undeserving. I’m referring to extremely serious crimes. I want to keep them in jail, but I want to leave open a chance that if they had been convicted unjustly they could be freed some day, hopefully sooner rather than later, like when authorities withhold exculpatory evidence. In those cases, those who deliberately withheld that evidence should immediately change places with the convict, on death row, never to be freed. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-against-capital-punishment-but-im-not-crying-today/930462/67 "2021-01-19T12:42:48Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](#): > > Who are we to judge a 40 year old man with a 14 year old girlfriend, if the girlfriend is willing? Unless we are executing men for consorting with minors, your comparison is fatally flawed. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-against-capital-punishment-but-im-not-crying-today/930462/68 "2021-01-19T22:17:01Z")
Montgomery barely pings the outrage-o-meter compared to certain others, like Kenneth McDuff, who murdered three people and received three death sentences, which were overturned in favor of life imprisonment when the Supreme Court abolished the death penalty in 1972. McDuff was eventually paroled, and began killing again within three days of his release. He ultimately murdered at least five more people before he was caught, re-sentenced to death and this time executed. But rather than picking on McDuff, it’s time to highlight the career of Leon Davis, one of the stars of Polk County Florida’s death row. “He was convicted of gunning down two convenience store clerks - Prakashkumar Patel, 33, and Dashrath Patel, 52 - as they changed the marquee at a BP gas station on County Road 557, just south of Interstate 4. A week later, he attempted to rob the Headley Nationwide Insurance office in Lake Wales, and when the clerks had little more than $150, he strapped them to a chair, doused them in gasoline and set them on fire. After he left, Yvonne Bustamante, 27, and a pregnant Juanita Luciano, 23, freed themselves and ran outside for help, their clothes still burning. They died within days of the attack, as did Luciano’s newborn son, who was delivered prematurely the night of the attack.” > **[Photos: Meet Polk County's 15 Death Row inmates](https://www.theledger.com/picture-gallery/news/crime/2019/05/21/photos-meet-polk-county-s-15/65632149007/)** > > These are Polk's death row inmates. Juries have found each of them guilty of taking someone's life. Judges have ruled that each should pay for that crime with his own. List updated Feb. 9, 2020 with … Lastly there’s Casey Pigge, imprisoned on a murder conviction in Ohio, who has so far managed to kill two fellow prisoners (he strangled one to death with a chain on a prison bus, a neat trick) and severely injure a guard in a stabbing. Maybe execution would stop him, but of course that would be “retribution”. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-against-capital-punishment-but-im-not-crying-today/930462/69 "2021-01-19T22:28:04Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > Unless we are executing men for consorting with minors, your comparison is fatally flawed. Not at all. I made this point to show how we give society a right to judge people’s behavior to a poster who said “Who are we to judge who deserves to live?.” If we as a society can judge the punishment for a pedophile, we as a society can judge the punishment for a murderer. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-against-capital-punishment-but-im-not-crying-today/930462/70 "2021-01-21T09:21:25Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > If you are anti-death penalty except in certain cases, you are pro death penalty. This. > [@TRC4941](#): > > Would anyone’s opinion differ, either for or against, if the pregnant woman had been your wife, daughter or mother? No. “If we could change ourselves, the tendencies in the world would also change.” ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-against-capital-punishment-but-im-not-crying-today/930462/71 "2021-01-22T06:15:12Z")
According to your reasoning in McDuff’s case, we should execute _everyone_ who would pose a significant danger to society lest they be mistakenly released. Are you advocating for _no_ life sentences, just go straight to execution for _all_ non-corrigible prisoners? It’s not a question of whether or not people _deserve_ to die, it’s whether the State should be executing its people. Of course, there’s also the possibility that someone could be put to death who isn’t guilty. Such as George Stinney Jr, the 14-year-old innocent black boy in North Carolina executed in 1944 after 10 minutes of deliberation. And there’s the likelihood that it’s applied unevenly and/or unfairly. We’ve done a poor job of implementing the DP up to now. I certainly don’t trust that it’s ever going to be fixed. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-against-capital-punishment-but-im-not-crying-today/930462/72 "2021-01-22T06:46:39Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](#): > > If you take someone’s life away, then you have no right to live yourself. > **[Danville woman charged with homicide by vehicle after fatal crash](https://www.dailyitem.com/news/danville-woman-charged-with-homicide-by-vehicle-after-fatal-crash/article_d3d2062a-5c21-11eb-b0f6-cbca0ea592a4.html)** > > A Danville woman faces homicide by vehicle charges following a fatal crash along Mile Post Road in Northumberland County last month. So, death penalty? > **[Woman gets 30 months for 2018 double-fatal crash near Ches. City](https://www.cecildaily.com/bargaineer/woman-gets-30-months-for-2018-double-fatal-crash-near-ches-city/article_97933641-5050-5652-8c4a-8b2e1079d2a8.html)** > > ELKTON — A woman who caused a chain-reaction crash that killed two Cecil County men near Chesapeake City in October 2018 received a 30-month jail term on Monday, as part What about her? ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-against-capital-punishment-but-im-not-crying-today/930462/73 "2021-01-22T10:18:08Z")
There is absolutely no empirical evidence for or against capital punishment furthering any of the goals of criminal justice. All arguments are motivated by either a vindictive or a compassionate nature. I am in the latter group, unswervingly. I can make no exceptions without violating my core principles. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-against-capital-punishment-but-im-not-crying-today/930462/74 "2021-01-22T13:58:41Z")
Did she crash the car on purpose? Did she aim the car at those two guys? Probably not. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-against-capital-punishment-but-im-not-crying-today/930462/75 "2021-01-22T14:31:52Z")
So now intent is required? Would it be fair if I rephrased your statement to be something like? > If you intentionally take someone’s life away, then you have no right to live yourself. Assuming that intent was the only thing missing, what happens if a husband comes home, finds his wife in bed with another and ends up beating the man to a pulp, resulting in his death? Death penalty? ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-against-capital-punishment-but-im-not-crying-today/930462/76 "2021-01-22T15:40:45Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > Assuming that intent was the only thing missing, what happens if a husband comes home, finds his wife in bed with another and ends up beating the man to a pulp, resulting in his death? > > Death penalty? To my way of thinking, premeditation should be a factor in applying capital punishment. Life without parole. And again, I’m against capital punishment because the system is too corrupt. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-against-capital-punishment-but-im-not-crying-today/930462/77 "2021-01-22T16:25:11Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > According to your reasoning in McDuff’s case, we should execute _everyone_ who would pose a significant danger to society lest they be mistakenly released. That wasn’t the reasoning. Focusing entirely on the possibiity of an innocent person being executed as a reason to abolish the death penalty, fails to acknowledge that innocent people can die when someone like McDuff gets off death row and back into society. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2021, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-against-capital-punishment-but-im-not-crying-today/930462/78 "2021-02-02T02:13:33Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > In the case of someone like Tim McVeigh, though, I could do him with a bucket of water and a bad extension cord. That is the problem for me, precedent. "We executed an evil person like Timothy McVeigh, surely we can execute Carnivorous Plant, who’s Wife died in the car wreck because Mr. Plant didn’t keep his tires at 32 PSI! ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2021, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-against-capital-punishment-but-im-not-crying-today/930462/79 "2021-02-02T02:31:23Z")
Slippery, I’d like to introduce you to Slope. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-against-capital-punishment-but-im-not-crying-today/930462.md?page=3)