I don’t think anyone is suggesting that Mr. Accented Tech Support Guy is outright unemployable. Only that he had sure better learn how to make himself understood if he hopes to be employable as a Tech Support guy.
If he was somehow unable to improve his accent, he could work in a back office position. Whatever.
I am reminded of the term “differently abled” that I’ve heard used in preference to “disabled”. Well, “differently abled” means just that: A different set of abilities.
No person should expect to be employed in a position which does not match their abilities.
Once again, the thing I’m bitching about here is not that anyone would think these folks shouldn’t be performing the jobs they have–in both cases, I’ve said they appear to be in over their heads. What I’m opposed to is the notion that Ms. Deaf Subway Sandwich Person and Mr. Accented Tech Support Guy should not have any job that requires communication with the public. It’s right there in the OP. I’ve even quoted it a couple times now.
Just as an aside, sometimes the inability to understand what another person – say, someone with a heavily-accented voice – is at least as much the fault of the listener as it is the speaker. If you’re unaccustomed to hearing people speak in anything other than “standard” English, you often don’t make as much of an effort if something isn’t immediately intelligible. There’s a Chinese takeout place my wife and I call frequently, and one of the employees has a lot of difficulty understanding Americans speak. Rather than get frustrated, we make sure we speak clearly and slowly.
(15 minutes to understand the digits? Where was this operator from, Mars? How badly can you mangle an individual digit so that it’s not understandable?)
Ah, which strawman to attack first? The one that equates deafness with laziness and stupidity, or the one that equates licensed professional with making a freaking sandwich?
They aren’t tht expensive, but putting one in for a a single employee would be… odd. Moreover, Subway doesn’t want to do this. I think part of thwir strategy is a more personal fast-food atmosphere: You can see you sandwish being made by hand while you order, etc.
Minty i think he meant Customers should not be forced to deal with a frustratingly incompenant (for this position) employee simply to accomplish a minor and normally trivial task, like getting lunch.
Yes. For the same reason I shouldn’t be employed as a Russian language translator: I don’t speak Russian.
**
Huh? What do you mean by “any job”? You need to clarify your position.
You either talk to customers or you don’t. A tech support guy talks to customers all day long. If he can’t do that, he can’t do the job. I don’t see any grey area here.
I think this is a great idea, and will solve the problem for horhay_achoa as far as getting what he wants on his sandwich. However, this solution requires that patrons at this particular Subway make accomidations that patrons at other branchs of this restaurant do not have to make. Is it really that unreasonable that a person who is taking your order can understand you, and not only that, understand you well?
I frequent Subway myself quite often. I usually order the Subway Melt with lettuce, onion, pickles, green peppers, black pepper, and Southwest sauce. I know a little bit of sign language, having taken a class or two in college. However, I have NO idea how to communicate this sandwich order to a deaf person, and I think it’s a bad business practice to make your customers work harder to get their order across when they can go across the street and not have to deal with that.
AAAAARRRRGHHHH!!! Please, people, read the f-ing OP! Right up there at the very top of the page, it says, plain as day, that the deaf order-taker should not “be working in a position that does not require her to communicate with customers.” That’s like the fourth time I’ve had to quote that in this thread, and it ain’t my f-ing position.
:smashes head against desk:
:repeatedly:
Indisputably true.
That’s because you’re ignoring the point I’m addressing. Just because he is incapable of performing one job requiring communication with customers does not mean that he is incapable of performing any job requiring communication with customers.
If you operate a business, the burden is on you to make sure your employees are able to communicate with your customers, not the other way around. The customer can always go somewhere else for service. Businesses don’t stay in business by agrivating their customers.
Some people are just not intelligent. It’s not their fault any more than it’s the womans fault she’s deaf. Just the same, it is a limiting factor in a lot of jobs.
In all fairness, being deaf is probably makes her no worse than the jerkoffs, druggies, dumbies, and short attention spanos who work in minimum wage jobs. I just don’t think that being deaf should hold a person to a diferent standard than any of the bad employee types. Granted it’s not her fault (unlike the jerks, etc) but it’s business and in business its the bottom line that matters.
If you really believe in equal opportunity, aswer this: I have two employeees, both highly motivated. All else being equal, one is not quite as good at his job because he’s deaf. I have to let one go for economic reasons. Which one should I let go?
Yes, and . . . ? Should this particular company have polled everyone who might conceivably call their tech support center at any time, and asked them, “Can you understand this man speak?” One can assume that the person who hired him, and probably his supervisor and co-workers, can understand him, or he never would have made it past the interview stage.
I’m not accusing Lightnin’ of this, but many people, when they hear a non-native English speaker on the phone, go into this, “Oh, great, a foreigner” mode and make no effort to listen or understand.
Yes, well, becoming a doctor or a lawyer involves a little bit more than filling out a job application and spreading mayonnaise on bread. I think your comparison was rather stupid.
This I won’t even dignify with an answer.
Do we both get to make up fake scenarios that help our case? OK, in that case, I posit a case where the deaf guy is better at his job because the other guy has no arms.
Obviously – and I can’t even believe I need to point out the obviousness to a college educated person – you let go the person who doesn’t perform as well, whatever the reason is. It doesn’t matter whether the reason is deafness or something else. That’s what equal opportunity means – that you don’t let someone go because they’re deaf, you let them go if they cannot perform the job.
How long has this employee worked at the Subway in question? I ask because it seems very possible to me that this woman’s performance will improve as she becomes more accustomed to the words used to order specific kinds of sandwiches. That is, she will be able to read lips more effectively once she’s familiarized with the specialized vocabulary: hot sauce, mayo, #6, “hold the pickle.”
I’d say in this type of job experience is one of the most important factors there is. It’s quite possible that with another month or two of experience on the job, this employee will be far superior to a new employee who isn’t deaf.
On the matter of the heavily accented tech support person. This strikes me as an odd comparison. We are working on the assumption that the hiring of the deaf woman may have been due to a deliberate policy of hiring disabled persons on the part of Subway. Yet there is no parallel–no Act for hiring the Accented–in the case of the tech support person.
That said…
From what I know of tech support, it’s very hard to get qualified people since the work isn’t that satisfying, and not that well-paid. The heavily accented tech support guy might have been the most qualified employee available for the job.
In theory it would be nice for the customer if every tech support person had 1) a PhD in the relevant are from Cal Tech or a comparable institution; 2) the milk of human kindness running by the quart in every vein; 3) the patience of twelve saints; 4) communication skills on a par with the world’s best teachers; and–since I’m asking–5) the mindreading skills of a practiced swami to make up for any communicative deficincies the customer may have.
In practice I’m happy to get someone who solves my problem without disconnecting me. And I’d rather have a heavily accented person who knows the job, than a BBC announcer who’s clueless.
Sure, in fact, why not just make the sandwich yourself, too?
A deaf person is not fit to work the front counter in a food establishment. That job requires an ability that they do not have! Why is it so difficult for you people to understand? Changing your business model is NOT a reasonable accommodation. I don’t go to subway to take my own order.
It’s simple: The person working the counter needs to be able to communicate with customers. And that means being able to hear and speak. The OP made it clear that this person can do neither very well, and that means she should not have been hired for that position.
Very true. I maintain that the person described in the OP should be let go because she cannot handle the job.
For the sake of argument, could you give an example of a job that involves dealing with the public in a substantial way that you believe could be performed by a person such as the deaf girl described in the OP? I honestly can’t think of one that doesn’t reduce the role of communication to such an insignificant level that the communication itself can no longer be seen as an important part of the job.
Jeff
Alright, give us an example of a job a deaf person competantly do that reqires significant customer interaction (besides deskworker at the American Association of the Deaf).
Ah, thanks for the link. Like I said, I’d never seen numbers, but a number of people touting the success of the ADA had said that employment had decreased nevertheless. (Frankly, I don’t see how the ADA can be considered a success if employment has remained the same, but that’s just me). According to that link, employment among some disabilities had decreased dramatically as of 1997, others increased a bit, and overall there’s pretty much no significant difference. It’d be interesting to see more up-to-date figures, though.
surpisingly, people w/hearing disabilities vary quite a bit w/r/t the severity of their hearing impairment and their ability to communicate with those who have no such impairment. So, in a face to face encounter, some folks with some hearing impairment may have no problem, others with major hearing impairment but highly skilled in lip reading etc may have no problem as well.
I think too, people are assuming that the situation described by the OP meant that this woman had difficulty with every order. That’s not necessarily the case. As I pointed out, others w/o hearing impairments have been known to mis hear or misunderstand orders as well. Assuming that the problem resulted from this person’s impairment assumes facts not in evidence. Some people mumble. Some customers have thick accents. It could certainly be that this woman had no problem w/most of the orders, and the OP mumbled, turned his head or whatever (not saying it did happen this way, just that a highly skilled lip reader wouldnt’ have a problem w/this job, generally speaking).
All right, settle down. I have read the OP. I honestly didn’t know what you were talking about. This conversation is about the Sandwich girl working in a position that does require her to communicate with customers. Nobody is saying that deaf people shouldn’t be employed by subway, period. Poeple are just saying that they shouldn’t be put in a postion to communicate with the public.
Again, who said that deaf people shouldn’t be put in the any position that deals with customers?
What about the customers who speak english with a thick accent? By hiring the deaf woman, is Subway descriminating against them? Or, if the customers are going to be forced to write orders down, what about customers who speak english as a second language but cannot write in English?!
Wow. It sounds almost as if the world is an imperfect place, and maybe, just maybe every single human being on the planet cannot be catered to all of the time.
They absolutely should poll their customers on the quality of the service they provide. And if “I can’t understand what they say” is a consistent complaint, they company should take action to correct it.
Or maybe I should tell my customers it’s their job to try and learn Russian, Hindi, or Spanish if they want to use my service center?
Why are you having so much trouble with this analogy? It’s very simple. If you are bad at math, don’t become an engineer. If you are small and skinny, you may not make the best fireman. If you are ugly, supermodel might be out of reach for you. And if you can’t hear, why would you choose a profession that requires you to LISTEN CAREFULLY TO WHAT PEOPLE SAY TO YOU?
I suppose for someone like you, coddling people with disabilities makes you feel like you are making the world a better place. I think you are just being condescending by treating them as if they need special care. If a deaf women is working at Subway and does a fine job, I have no problem. If I have to consistently scream my order six times and end up with the wrong sandwhich anyway, I think that person should look for new work, regardless if they are deaf or not.
I have nothing against disabled people, I just want to go in, get my plain turkey sandwhich with light mayo and be on my way with a minimum of fuss.
Ooooo! Good arguments! You really opened my eyes.
Are you sure you believe this? Because I get the impression you are highly offended by the notion that someone who is deaf may not be able to perform their job as well as someone who is not deaf.