# I'm an American, I want Metric, and you?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-american-i-want-metric-and-you/385234>\
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion\
**Created:** [December 22, 2006, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-american-i-want-metric-and-you/385234 "2006-12-22T16:16:32Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 5

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**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\
**Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-american-i-want-metric-and-you/385234/81 "2006-12-24T21:08:34Z")

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It is a valid point that the Fahrenheit scale is a bit more intuitive. 0-100F is pretty much the range of temperatures humans experience. That said, I’m all for the switch to Metric. Getting used to Celsius only takes a bit of familiarity.

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**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\
**Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-american-i-want-metric-and-you/385234/82 "2006-12-24T21:37:58Z")

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[QUOTE=MrDibble]  
Do we use different cups? Mine are 1 cup = 250 ml. 1 tsp = 5ml, 1 Tbsp = 15 ml. I can do the conversions in my head, too (although I have 3 sets of metric measuring cups and a kitchen scale as well). I’ve never had a problem with American recipes using my cup sets.  
[/quote]

No, probably not. I was exaggerating. I didn’t realize that cup measurements themselves would be relatively even. As to doing the conversions in my head? Math is NOT a strong suit of mine. It’s not even a weak suit. If I had a conversion chart it would work, but what a pain in the butt! I don’t know about recipes having both sets of measurements. I haven’t baked for quite some time. That’s entirely possible.

> [@](#):
>
> Granted, a lot of the recipes I cook are even more archaic than the American system. Quick, can anyone tell me off the top of their head how much a _ratl_ of vinegar is?

Ummmmmm…

😃

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**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\
**Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-american-i-want-metric-and-you/385234/83 "2006-12-24T21:50:54Z")

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[QUOTE=mks57]  
Do they sell A4 paper in Canada? I’ve never seen it in the office supply stores in the US.  
[/QUOTE]  
Yes, but it’s damned difficult to find. We mostly use US paper sizes, even though every piece of office equipment I’ve ever seen can handle both.

And this is another one of my beefs. Where I work, we make two separate versions of every product brochure and sales sheet and white paper, one to fit US letter size and one to fit A4. And then we send half our stuff out as PDFs even though they could be any size, really. And the office runs on US paper sizes, even though most of our customers are in Europe or elsewhere overseas.

Still, that’s not as strange as when we, a Canadian company with (at the time) mostly US customers, were bought by a British company. We had to decide which of the three dialects of English involved to use…

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**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\
**Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-american-i-want-metric-and-you/385234/84 "2006-12-24T22:06:30Z")

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[QUOTE=MadTheSwine]  
I wouldn’t mind a switch over to metric, just so I could try a _Royale with cheese_  
[/QUOTE]

When last I was in Amsterdam, I went into the McD’s just to have a royale with cheese, no dice all they had was 1/4 pounders, I passed.

I’m the posterboy for the familiarity arguement. In nursing, we use metric for all wts and liquid measures, we calculate drug dosages in mg/mcg per kg of body wt, fluid intake and output, blood loss all in liters and milliliters. Temp is institution variable and once I got used to it in celsius, no big deal, 37 is normal 40 is bad news. I still have trouble with distance measures though. It’s common to think in terms of inches in describing someones laceration, and there’s no real pressure to make the transition, so I haven’t yet.

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**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\
**Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-american-i-want-metric-and-you/385234/85 "2006-12-24T23:17:03Z")

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I want picas.

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**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\
**Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-american-i-want-metric-and-you/385234/86 "2006-12-24T23:47:58Z")

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[QUOTE=Yookeroo]  
0-100F is pretty much the range of temperatures humans experience.  
[/QUOTE]

Not around here it isn’t.

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**Author:** ![Don26](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/edb3f5/32.png) [@Don26](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don26)\
**Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-american-i-want-metric-and-you/385234/87 "2006-12-25T07:38:06Z")

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IMHO, Metric, while clearly useful for many things, cannot and will never be universal, because it doesn’t encompass a measurement for TIME.

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**Author:** ![Dinaroozie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Dinaroozie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinaroozie)\
**Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-american-i-want-metric-and-you/385234/88 "2006-12-25T07:47:40Z")

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Well, we’ve heard from people who grew up with imperial and want to stay with imperial, and we’ve heard from people who grew up with imperial and want metric, and we’ve heard from people (I think… if we haven’t, well, I’m in this group) who grew up with metric and want to stay with metric. There ought to be a fourth group here. Have I missed all the people who grew up with the metric system, but long for their country to convert to the more intuitive and human-readable imperial system? Perhaps I’m not paying sufficiently keen attention, but that group seems underrepresented.

For what it’s worth, for reasons that escape me, we seem to measure height in feet and inches here (human height I mean) roughly as often as we use centimeters. I’m not sure why this is. Do other metric country dopers have this experience, or is Australia just behind the times in this regard? Perhaps it’s just me. Ah well.

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**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\
**Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-american-i-want-metric-and-you/385234/89 "2006-12-25T07:52:58Z")

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[QUOTE=Don26]  
IMHO, Metric, while clearly useful for many things, cannot and will never be universal, because it doesn’t encompass a measurement for TIME.  
[/QUOTE]

The second is the SI unit of time. Works fine.

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**Author:** ![jlrepka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/22d042/32.png) [@jlrepka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlrepka)\
**Post date:** [December 26, 2006, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-american-i-want-metric-and-you/385234/90 "2006-12-26T01:54:16Z")

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Seems like the Brits adjusted pretty well to having their money converted to a decimal system…

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**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\
**Post date:** [December 26, 2006, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-american-i-want-metric-and-you/385234/91 "2006-12-26T20:34:04Z")

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[QUOTE=Dinaroozie]  
\<snip\>For what it’s worth, for reasons that escape me, we seem to measure height in feet and inches here (human height I mean) roughly as often as we use centimeters. I’m not sure why this is. Do other metric country dopers have this experience, or is Australia just behind the times in this regard? Perhaps it’s just me. Ah well.  
[/QUOTE]

I don’t know if you can tell much by Canadian Dopers - we seem pretty firmly committed to being 3/4s metric, and leaving some things forever in imperial. Official measurements of height and weight are in metres and kgs in Canada, but everybody knows their measurments in inches and pounds. I’d have to look at my driver’s license to tell you how tall I am in metres, but I know I’m 5’6". All the measurements at Safeway are officially in kgs/mLs, but I buy a pound of apples a week. I also buy a couple 100 grams of deli meat occasionally and 4 litres of milk. Yeah, we’re pretty schizophrenic on the measurement front. 😃

(And our most common distance measurement is hours. Saskatoon is about seven hours from Calgary; Moose Jaw is only 6.)

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**Author:** ![Improv\_Geek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b3f665/32.png) [@Improv\_Geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Improv_Geek)\
**Post date:** [December 26, 2006, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-american-i-want-metric-and-you/385234/92 "2006-12-26T21:07:59Z")

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I think the time to make the switch has passed, conversions are so easy to make (you can do it from your cell phone by texting google) that the need to come to a unified standard is pointless.

Had it been thirty years ago, I would have agreed and said let’s make the change, but today it just isn’t needed.

– IG

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**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\
**Post date:** [December 26, 2006, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-american-i-want-metric-and-you/385234/93 "2006-12-26T21:29:06Z")

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[QUOTE=outlierrn]  
When last I was in Amsterdam, I went into the McD’s just to have a royale with cheese, no dice all they had was 1/4 pounders, I passed.

[/QUOTE]

It was the French in the film who had Royale with Cheese, I think.

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**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\
**Post date:** [December 26, 2006, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-american-i-want-metric-and-you/385234/94 "2006-12-26T21:30:56Z")

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[QUOTE=Dinaroozie]

For what it’s worth, for reasons that escape me, we seem to measure height in feet and inches here (human height I mean) roughly as often as we use centimeters. I’m not sure why this is. Do other metric country dopers have this experience, or is Australia just behind the times in this regard? Perhaps it’s just me. Ah well.  
[/QUOTE]

In the UK it seems far more common to give height in feet and inches and weight in stones and pounds than the metric equivalents.

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**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\
**Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-american-i-want-metric-and-you/385234/95 "2006-12-27T14:54:45Z")

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[QUOTE=Struan]  
It was the French in the film who had Royale with Cheese, I think.  
[/QUOTE]

Yes, but in Amsterdam, you can walk into a movie theater and buy a beer. And I don’t mean no paper cup, I’m talking about a _glass_ of beer.

…and they also have Krusty Partially Gelatinated Non-Dairy Gum-Based Beverages. They call 'em _shakes_.

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**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\
**Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-american-i-want-metric-and-you/385234/96 "2006-12-27T16:26:38Z")

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I TAd the Organic Chemistry lab for 5 terms.

Every time, at least one student would whine about having to measure stuff using the decimal system (chemists use it for pretty much everything except when we use calories, we like our calories because we like their definition).

Every time, they’d say that the decimal system is too hard to remember.

Every time, I asked them “how many pounds are in a stone?”

They never knew it.

So, really, before complaining that a decimal system is “too hard to remember”… have you taken a good hard look at yours?

* * *

Point two:  
my Mech Eng bro works in construction in Spain. Lots of stuff (nuts and bolts come to mind) are in inches, a unit that was never used in Spain (well it was, but none of our inches was the same length as the US inch). People will say “gimme a 3/4” and have no idea “3/4 of what”. These things are built to standards that were defined before Napoleon Buonaparte entered the military academy… they’re not likely to change even if the US went metric.

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**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\
**Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-american-i-want-metric-and-you/385234/97 "2006-12-27T16:27:55Z")

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Oh, sorry: the TA stuff was in Miami.

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**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\
**Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-american-i-want-metric-and-you/385234/98 "2006-12-27T17:19:27Z")

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I shall pass on the metric system because I think the English system is superior. This business about powers of 10 is tremendously overrated. The units make more sense:

Length: OK, a meter is about a yard. We can visualize that. But inches are better at measuring things less than a foot than mm are. And a foot is- well about the size of your foot. A mile is 4 times around a US running track or the distance between most county primary roads.

Temperature: Fahrenheit rules. Being a bit more than half as big as a degree C, degrees F allow for more precision in reporting whole degrees. And 0-100 being the range of typical weather makes it quite easy to remember.

Weight: Again, being smaller, pounds are more precise than kilograms. And there is a handy relationship between weight and volume for common liquids: a pint a pound the world around.

Volume: for cooking, English rules. For amounts \< 1 Tbsp, teaspoons and their fractions are easier than ml. For larger amounts, cups are convenient and intuitive: a cup of fluid is about what you put in a drinking cup. Sure, ccs are good for injections, but notice that your American doctor still reports your weight in pounds, your height in inches, and your temperature in degrees F.

You’ll never sell this inferior system, especially the way the US schools teach it. Every fall, every science class spends time memorizing silly prefixes that nobody ever uses. What a waste. IF it was desireable to make the switch, there are better ways to go about it.

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**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\
**Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-american-i-want-metric-and-you/385234/99 "2006-12-27T19:02:20Z")

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[QUOTE=BobLibDem]

But inches are better at measuring things less than a foot than mm are.

[/QUOTE]

Who uses mm? If it’s something you’d measure in inches, I’d measure it in cm.

[QUOTE=BobLibDem]

And a foot is- well about the size of your foot.

[/QUOTE]

I don’t know anyone who goes measuring things against their shoe. If it needs measuring, that’s what rulers are for. Doesn’t matter if they’re marked in cm or inches.

[QUOTE=BobLibDem]

A mile is 4 times around a US running track or the distance between most county primary roads.

[/QUOTE]

And a km is 1.5 times a Olympic standard track. Who runs the 100 yard dash anymore? It’s the 100m. Standard, worldwide. Even American athletes run the 1500 at the Olympics. Guess they’re traitors to the Imperial Way.

[QUOTE=BobLibDem]

Temperature: Fahrenheit rules. Being a bit more than half as big as a degree C, degrees F allow for more precision in reporting whole degrees. And 0-100 being the range of typical weather makes it quite easy to remember.

[/QUOTE]

Only if you’re not used to Celsius. Fahrenheit temps make no sense to me at all. Plus I’m not scared of a decimal point in my temperature readings. And Celsius works better for cooking, too, since it relates to boiling & freezing more directly.  
[QUOTE=BobLibDem]

Weight: Again, being smaller, pounds are more precise than kilograms.

[/QUOTE]

By that logic, grams are better than ounces. Why do you fear the decimal point?

[QUOTE=BobLibDem]

And there is a handy relationship between weight and volume for common liquids: a pint a pound the world around.

[/QUOTE]

Not in Antarctica or Tibet , & 1 litre weighs one kilogram at STP. Same difference.

[QUOTE=BobLibDem]

Volume: for cooking, English rules. For amounts \< 1 Tbsp, teaspoons and their fractions are easier than ml.

[/QUOTE]

See my post above about measuring spoons, which have a fixed ml equivalent.

[QUOTE=BobLibDem]

For larger amounts, cups are convenient and intuitive: a cup of fluid is about what you put in a drinking cup.

[/QUOTE]

See previous post - I also use a cup, mine’s just a metric cup. Same diff.

[QUOTE=BobLibDem]

Sure, ccs are good for injections, but notice that your American doctor still reports your weight in pounds, your height in inches, and your temperature in degrees F.

[/QUOTE]

My doc uses only SI units - that’s simpler, and simpler is better when you’re talking standards.  
[QUOTE=BobLibDem]

You’ll never sell this inferior system, especially the way the US schools teach it. Every fall, every science class spends time memorizing silly prefixes that nobody ever uses.  
[/QUOTE]  
\*  
We\* never memorize all the prefixes outside science classes. Kilo, milli and centi are all we use regularly. Don’t blame the metric system if your education system has a shitty bway of presenting it, blame your education system.

[QUOTE=BobLibDem]

What a waste. IF it was desirable to make the switch, there are better ways to go about it.  
[/QUOTE]

The rest of the world made the switch. That should be the entirety of its desirability right there, but I guess this will be like all the other ways the US likes to thumb its collective nose at sensibility. The metric system’s just too French, I guess.

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**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\
**Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-american-i-want-metric-and-you/385234/100 "2006-12-27T23:08:31Z")

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I hope we will go metric, but there is something to be said for the Imperial system all the same. From George Orwell’s “As I Please” column, published in the _Tribune,_ March 14, 1947:

> [@](#):
>
> Another thing I am against in advance [in addition to simplified spelling] – for it is bound to be suggested sooner or later – is the complete scrapping of our present system of weights and measures.
> 
> Obviously you have got to use the metric system of certain purposes. For scientific work it has long been in use, and it is also needed for tools and machinery, especially if you want to export them. But there is a strong case for keeping on the old measurements for use in everyday life. One reason is that the metric system does not possess, or has not succeeded in establishing, a large number of units that can be visualized. There is, for instance, effectively no unit between the metre, which is more than a yard, and the centimetre, which is less than half an inch. In English you can describe someone as being five feet three inches high, or five feet nine inches, or six feet one inch, and your hearer will know fairly accurately what you mean. But I have never heard a Frenchman say, “He is a hundred and forty-two centimetres high”; it would not convey any visual image. So also with various other measurements. Rods and acres, pints, quarts and gallons, pounds, stones and hundredweights, are all of them units with which we are intimately familiar, and we should be slightly poorer without them. Actually, in countries where the metric system is in force a few of the old measurements tend to linger on for everyday purposes, although officially discouraged.
> 
> There is also the literary consideration, which cannot be left quite out of account. The names of the units in the old system are short homely words which lend themselves to vigorous speech. Putting a quart into a pint pot is a good image, which could hardly be expressed in the metric system. Also, the literature of the past deals only in the old measurements, and many passages would become an irritation if one had to do a sum in arithmetic when one read them, as one does with those tiresome versts in a Russian novel.
> 
> The emmet’s inch and eagle’s mile  
> Make lame philosophy to smile:
> 
> fancy having to turn that into millimetres!

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