# I'm an evil bastard. Can I get into Heaven? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 16, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-evil-bastard-can-i-get-into-heaven/606460 "2011-12-16T22:42:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-evil-bastard-can-i-get-into-heaven/606460/121 "2011-12-29T15:23:33Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > Have you read the New Testament? We don’t do sacrifices any more. Who is “we?” Aren’t you one of that Middle Eastern cult that eats flesh and drinks blood every week? Besides, I thought we were talking about the Eternal One, to whom a thousand years is like a day. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-evil-bastard-can-i-get-into-heaven/606460/122 "2011-12-29T15:28:09Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > Maybe that’s because I choose to be. Are you _still_ under the mistaken impression that this is witty banter? It’s not. ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-evil-bastard-can-i-get-into-heaven/606460/123 "2011-12-29T15:29:13Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > So tithing is out of fashion? Tithing does not involve the ritual slaughter of an animal in order for there to be a “scape goat.” Jesus was the last sacrifice, the Lamb. No more blood sacrifice, human or animal, is necessary (for Christians). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-evil-bastard-can-i-get-into-heaven/606460/124 "2011-12-29T15:35:03Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > Tithing does not involve the ritual slaughter of an animal in order for there to be a “scape goat.” Jesus was the last sacrifice, the Lamb. No more blood sacrifice, human or animal, is necessary (for Christians). Nothing was “sacrificed” with that action, because God lost nothing in that transaction, and Jesus not only was just temporarily inconvenienced, he actually came out ahead in the end. ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-evil-bastard-can-i-get-into-heaven/606460/125 "2011-12-29T15:49:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Jesus not only was just temporarily inconvenienced, he actually came out ahead in the end. Now let’s see, would I rather grub around in first-century Israel, or eat ambrosia in Heaven? ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-evil-bastard-can-i-get-into-heaven/606460/126 "2011-12-29T15:50:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Nothing was “sacrificed” with that action, because God lost nothing in that transaction, and Jesus not only was just temporarily inconvenienced, he actually came out ahead in the end. And yet they **did** crucify a man calling himself the King of Jews. Someone **did** suffer under Pilate. Or was that all a myth? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-evil-bastard-can-i-get-into-heaven/606460/127 "2011-12-29T15:53:08Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > And yet they **did** crucify a man calling himself the King of Jews. Someone **did** suffer under Pilate. Or was that all a myth? _Now_ who’s stretching the definition of the word “sacrifice” as it was used in the Bible? ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-evil-bastard-can-i-get-into-heaven/606460/128 "2011-12-29T16:29:20Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > And yet they **did** crucify a man calling himself the King of Jews. Someone **did** suffer under Pilate. Or was that all a myth? Probably. But you can’t have it both ways. If he really could perform miracles of healing, then blocking the pain of crucifixion would be trivial. So he only suffered if he was a masochist, in which case he enjoyed it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-evil-bastard-can-i-get-into-heaven/606460/129 "2011-12-29T16:46:30Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > According to Christian theology, that is - answers along the lines of “no, because Heaven doesn’t exist” won’t be particularly useful. Inspired by the threads on Christopher Hitchens (not that I’m saying he’s an evil bastard - neither am I, it’s all hypothetical). > > Let’s say I’m a hardened criminal. Never been to a church unless it’s to steal lead off the roof, never baptised, never given a second though to matters religion - for or against. That is, I think of myself as neither Atheist or Christian - all I care about is indulging in the criminal lifestyle at the expense of innocents. Murder, assault, robbery, arson…my existence has made many, many others miserable. > > One day whilst attempting to murder someone for the fun of it I get a knife in the gut from my would-be victim. The police rejoice that the one-man crime spree is at an end, but despite doctors doing all they can it looks like I won’t survive long enough to face the criminal justice system. > > As I lay dying in the hospital bed, thoughts turn to possible afterlives. I call the padre over and make a last-minute conversion to Christianity just before I take a trip to Costa del Blowfly. Do I get into the Kingdom of Heaven or not? Does it matter if I’m genuinely repentant and really believe that I’m accepting Jesus Christ as my personal saviour, as opposed to just hedging my bets and answering Pascal’s Wager? Or is the idea of a deathbed conversion being a ticket out just a fallacy? > > How would my plight compare to a good and decent man in the Amazon jungle, who has never heard of Christianity? Or a good unbeliever who was killed too quickly to make a conversion? If you are genuinely penitent, and not “just hedging your bets”(as you mentioned), and if you really believe in the sacrifice Jesus made for us, then you will get into Heaven. God is merciful, I think the only ones in Hell are those who have knowledge of his love and willfully reject it, and Him. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-evil-bastard-can-i-get-into-heaven/606460/130 "2011-12-29T17:36:02Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > No, it’s not like demonic possession or the presence of an alter ego overpowering the main personality. People ask to be controlled by God in such a way that they are still who they are and not like a marionette with someone yanking its strings. Maybe instead of “control” we should say “inspire” or “lead.” > > The Prayer of St. Patrick says, _“Make me a channel of Your peace.”_ > > By asking to be a channel of God’s peace, a person is asking God to express His peace through them, through who they already are. Does that help? I guess I’m not clear on what you’re saying. Is the person doing God’s work or is God working through the person? Are you the tool or the tool user? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-evil-bastard-can-i-get-into-heaven/606460/131 "2011-12-29T17:37:06Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > Tithing does not involve the ritual slaughter of an animal in order for there to be a “scape goat.” Jesus was the last sacrifice, the Lamb. No more blood sacrifice, human or animal, is necessary (for Christians). Who was Jesus sacrificed to? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-evil-bastard-can-i-get-into-heaven/606460/132 "2011-12-29T17:41:56Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Who was Jesus sacrificed to? To himself…but he got a significant refund in the deal. ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-evil-bastard-can-i-get-into-heaven/606460/133 "2011-12-29T17:49:04Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I guess I’m not clear on what you’re saying. Is the person doing God’s work or is God working through the person? Are you the tool or the tool user? The person acts, but God acts through that person because He has been invited in. Jesus stands at the door of our heart and knocks. If we let Him in, He’ll eat with us and we with Him. (Scripture paraphrase) You are the tool insofar as God can use you. Is this making any sense at all? I feel like this is not going over very well. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-evil-bastard-can-i-get-into-heaven/606460/134 "2011-12-29T20:59:11Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > The person acts, but God acts through that person because He has been invited in. Jesus stands at the door of our heart and knocks. If we let Him in, He’ll eat with us and we with Him. (Scripture paraphrase) > > You are the tool insofar as God can use you. > > Is this making any sense at all? I feel like this is not going over very well. This seems to be one of those situations where religious believers are trying to hold two mutually contradictory positions at the same time. I don’t see how God and I can both be in control of what I’m doing. Either it’s me making the decisions or it’s God. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-evil-bastard-can-i-get-into-heaven/606460/135 "2011-12-29T21:21:44Z")
Sure you can get into Heaven, no matter how evil you are. The New Testament tells us that the only absolutely unforgivable sin is the sin against the Holy Ghost. If you haven’t committed that one then just repent on your deathbed and your ass will be saved. But what exactly is the sin against the Holy Ghost, you may ask. Beats me, buddy, the good book doesn’t go into details. Could be anything, but if you’ve done it, your ass is grass. Good luck at those Pearly Gates! ---
**Author:** ![Engineer\_Dude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9fc29f/32.png) [@Engineer\_Dude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Engineer_Dude)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-evil-bastard-can-i-get-into-heaven/606460/136 "2012-01-03T16:01:12Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Yes, but you have already posted your intent to make amends on your deathbed so be advised that evil bastard heaven looks a lot like Walmart. Imagine Gilbert Gottfried as the door greeter instead of St Peter. Or better yet, watch the episode, “The Tale of Station 109.1” of _Are You Afraid of the Dark?_ and _watch_ Gilbert Gottfried be the door greeter of heaven. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-evil-bastard-can-i-get-into-heaven/606460/137 "2012-01-03T21:44:07Z")
> [@UFC\_Is\_Sux](#): > > Some are going to tell you that only white obscenely rich Republicans will make it because they once gave a quarter to a homeless guy and that’s what God wants. Do you have a cite for that particular claim? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-evil-bastard-can-i-get-into-heaven/606460/138 "2012-01-03T21:50:17Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Do you have a cite for that particular claim? [No problem.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole) ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-evil-bastard-can-i-get-into-heaven/606460/139 "2012-01-04T02:17:42Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > The person acts, but God acts through that person because He has been invited in. Jesus stands at the door of our heart and knocks. If we let Him in, He’ll eat with us and we with Him. (Scripture paraphrase) > > You are the tool insofar as God can use you. > > Is this making any sense at all? I feel like this is not going over very well. I could not disagree with you more, but you are making perfect sense. Other people are playing debate games (see title of forum) rather than discussing religious beliefs. Some people here are very anti-religion. You’ve probably noticed that. Some people cannot reconcile an omniscient omnipotent god and free will. I don’t know why. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-an-evil-bastard-can-i-get-into-heaven/606460.md?page=6)