# I'm ashamed of you people **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 25, 2006, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181 "2006-04-25T18:25:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/101 "2006-04-26T02:12:41Z")
> [@rayh](#): > > Only if the match is held in Florida. But which one of the Supremes would be the ref? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/102 "2006-04-26T02:22:27Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > But which one of the Supremes would be the ref? I suggest Diana Ross. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/103 "2006-04-26T02:34:18Z")
What about Keith Richards vs. Dick Cheney? Cheney’s had heart problems and Richards is the Man Who Will Not Die. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/104 "2006-04-26T02:36:25Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > chutzpah. Wait, isn’t that Yiddish for “I hate mango chutney”? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/105 "2006-04-26T03:33:16Z")
I agree with the others. I have been reading a couple of Lincoln books of late and it is hard to see Ol’ Abe worrying about a hotel room. (To be fair, nobody is indicating the Prez is upset about this, or even knows about it.) I thought it was an amusing story of the little guy enforcing his rights against The Man. That is always nice. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/106 "2006-04-26T04:20:39Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > I’ve spent my life watching the Red States promote and indulge in ridiculous amounts of ignorance, irrationality and bigotry. As a group, they are fools, and their “values” are utterly vile. “Red-Stater” chiming in. **Der Douche** , for you viewing pleasure - [Teh ev!1111](http://www.pomeroy.house.gov/) [Red states](http://dorgan.senate.gov/) [are teh Suxxxxorrzzz!!!](http://www.senate.gov/~conrad/). See how that broad brush paints you in a corner? See how you do what you lash out against when people do it to you? You keep talking about “us” when criticizing US politics. What Utopia are you living in that gives you nothing about your own life to improve and feel the need to tell everyone else how to live? ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/107 "2006-04-26T04:30:21Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > And you should be ashamed of yourselves. > > Over [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=368822) , **Diogenes** goes into orgasmic spasms over the fact that Mick Jagger dissed Bush. And the rest of you sorry dipshits joined right in. > > For those of you that are American citizens and participated in that pathetic little circlejerk of drooling, mouth-breathing idiocy: whether you like Bush or not, **he is our President**. And he was dissed by a jackoff rock-and-roller. > > This is not about politics. There is such a thing as basic, common courtesy in this world, and for that to happen to a head of state - ANY state - is just plain rudeness and lack of manners. For it to happen to ours should have pissed all of you off. > > And you sorry fucks exulted in it like dogs rolling in shit! > > I take it back. I’m not ashamed of you. I’m embarrassed by you. And forget the “be ashamed of yourselves” statement. That implies that you have the basic manners and morals to understand that you did something wrong, and you proved conclusively that you don’t. > > Cecil, if you read this: your logo says Fighting Ignorance Since 1973. This is a sterling example of why it has taken so long: the fucking barbarians are in the majority and the gap is widening. Are these the same barbarians that were wild with glee that Slick Willie Clinton was forced to admit to a blowjob? The same barbarians who told me when Clinton was elected that they would leave the country, refuse to pay taxes, or shoot him\*, because he was SO liberal and anti-business that the economy would collapse under him? That made fun of Hillary for speaking up, for how she looked, for…well…anything at all? \*all three of those claims were made to me by actual God-fearing, President-respecting Republicans. Not that they planned to respect a Democrat, mind you. Now it is possible that you yourself are not one of those particular barbarians, in which case perhaps you have a point. But those barbarians certainly made a fetish out of showing contempt for the president when his name was Clinton. I actually said to some of them, "I thought you guys said we have to show respect for the office and its holder. When the shoe is on the other foot, I’m betting you’ll _insist_ on it. Well, the shoe is inded on the other foot now. A Repbulican two-termer. And look, here’s someone insitsing on newfound respect for the office and its holder! Tell ya what, write a letter apologizing to Bill Clinton, and I’ll write to Mick and ask him to give up a hotel suite. Deal? Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/108 "2006-04-26T04:38:07Z")
> [@tiny ham](#): > > I’m ashamed of both Mick Jagger and the President (coming this fall to FOX!) for fighting like fucking four year olds over who gets the prettier room. I didn’t see any part of the story that said that either of them “fought like four year olds.” Bush’s people asked for the room ( a little bit presumptuous and arrogant but not a “fight” yet). Jagger said no. The WH moved on. I’m especially bewildered as to why you think there’s anything immature about Jagger’s behavior. He was asked for something that was his and he said no. Can I have your car? No? Why are you fighting with me like a four year old over a car. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/109 "2006-04-26T04:38:34Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > See how that broad brush paints you in a corner? What part of “as a group” do you not understand ? BTW, if you think I’m going to be impressed by ( or believe anything on ) several politicans’ propaganda pages, you’re wrong. > [@duffer](#): > > See how you do what you lash out against when people do it to you? While that’s incoherent, I think you mean “How do I feel when people lash out at me ?” Well, as a white male liberal atheist, that’s all I’ve ever known. And _especially_ from the Right, I’ve seldom seen anything but rabid hatred; it’s what the Right stands for. > [@duffer](#): > > What Utopia are you living in that gives you nothing about your own life to improve and feel the need to tell everyone else how to live? If I was in a utopia I wouldn’t feel the need to. Obviously. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/110 "2006-04-26T05:30:52Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > > [@duffer](#): > > > > See how you do what you lash out against when people do it to you? > > While that’s incoherent, I think you mean “How do I feel when people lash out at me ?” Well, as a white male liberal atheist, that’s all I’ve ever known. Naw, you’ve misinterpreted what **duffer** said. Reworded, it means: You’re broad-brushing an entire region with negative stereotypes, a form of attack which you rage against when it’s directed at the segment of the populace with which you identify. Hell, **duffer’s** phrasing is a hell of a lot punchier than mine, but you have to engage your brain when you read it. ---
**Author:** ![beebee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47774/32.png) [@beebee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beebee)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/111 "2006-04-26T06:11:08Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > BTW, triple fuck Bush, his cronies and his moronic and blind _supporters_. and the horse he rode in on ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/112 "2006-04-26T06:42:03Z")
> [@](#): > > **Der Trihs** : I’ve spent my life watching the Red States promote and indulge in ridiculous amounts of ignorance, irrationality and bigotry. As a group, they are fools, and their “values” are utterly vile. The notion of “Red States” is just an election convenience. If you follow this [link](http://www.princeton.edu/~rvdb/JAVA/election2004/) you will see that for the most part, we are shades of purple. Just scroll down a bit. I live in “blue” Nashville. **Clothahump** , you seem to have forgotten that Bush is a public servant. We don’t have royalty in this country and our founders made a point of it. Mick Jagger seems to take seriously his membership in the free world. More power to him. I hope that the president had the good manners not to have a hissy fit the way you did and that he got what he needed. ---
**Author:** ![Mellivora\_capensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mellivora\_capensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mellivora_capensis)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/113 "2006-04-26T08:12:08Z")
**Clothahump** , a few things. 1. FTR, Bush is not my president. 2. In my book, respect is earned, not inherited. 3. Fuck Opal. Yeah, I laughed, and I’m still laughing. In fact, I’m typing this with just my middle fingers. I am irreverent by nature, especially towards people who think they are superior. Bush, and many modern persons in power, are bullies. I detest and despise bullies. And just in case you take this the wrong way, my middle finger typing is aimed at Bush and his ilk, not you. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/114 "2006-04-26T08:39:26Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > And you should be ashamed of yourselves. > > Over [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=368822) , **Diogenes** goes into orgasmic spasms over the fact that Mick Jagger dissed Bush. And the rest of you sorry dipshits joined right in. > > For those of you that are American citizens and participated in that pathetic little circlejerk of drooling, mouth-breathing idiocy: whether you like Bush or not, **he is our President**. And he was dissed by a jackoff rock-and-roller. > > This is not about politics. There is such a thing as basic, common courtesy in this world, and for that to happen to a head of state - ANY state - is just plain rudeness and lack of manners. For it to happen to ours should have pissed all of you off. > > And you sorry fucks exulted in it like dogs rolling in shit! > > I take it back. I’m not ashamed of you. I’m embarrassed by you. And forget the “be ashamed of yourselves” statement. That implies that you have the basic manners and morals to understand that you did something wrong, and you proved conclusively that you don’t. > > Cecil, if you read this: your logo says Fighting Ignorance Since 1973. This is a sterling example of why it has taken so long: the fucking barbarians are in the majority and the gap is widening. He’s not my fucking President and he’s almost as dumb as you so I feel great he’s being dissed. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/115 "2006-04-26T08:45:33Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > I’m not ashamed of anybody, but just the level of schadenfreude, in this thread especially, concerns me. I mean, the level of hatred expressed for President Bush seems to go so far beyond what’s reasonable. In this thread alone, he’s been called a “monster” and a “thing”, that he’s “responsible for killing tens of thousands”, and has “people snatched off the street and tortured” > > The whole level of divisiveness that this president evokes just really frightens me, and I sometimes wonder if these extreme emotions might be more destructive for the country in the long run than Bush ever could be. He is responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands. He has had people snatched off the streets and tortured. That makes him a monster in mine and any other decent human being’s book. ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/116 "2006-04-26T12:13:35Z")
Personally, he _is_ my president, and I’d refuse him my room… if there was any way I was important enough to get away with it. ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/117 "2006-04-26T12:25:32Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Had I been in Jagger’s place, I’d have given the room up. If you had been in Jagger’s place you’d have been waiting for Bush under the sheets, like some teenage groupie on the _Sticky Fingers_ tour. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/118 "2006-04-26T12:58:27Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > OK. Idiot, _and_ hateful cunt. Congratulations. Maybe over-the-top, but didn’t you posit in this thread that people like your dad ‘are finally coming around’ and then, in a followup post, tell us that you’re pretty much going to be “forced” to vote on a straight GOP ticket? See a disconnect in there anywhere? Will all those who are ‘finally coming around’ also feel “forced” and, therefore, be abrogated of all responsibility and culpability? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/119 "2006-04-26T13:01:09Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > I don’t think you can put all of that on President Bush’s head, though. I’m not even saying the invasion was justified. That’s a whole other debate. But when a Sunni suicide bomber walks into a Shi’ite mosque, for example, and kills himself and 90 other people, that’s not President Bush’s fault. He’s not the one sending suicide bombers into the mosques…in fact, the US army is doing its best to stop it from happening. Whether we should have gone into Iraq in the first place, at this point, we are the “good guys” there…we’re trying to help the Iraqis set up a liberal democracy, we’re trying to help them rebuild the country. The people who are trying to stop us from doing that have to hold a good deal of responsibility for a lot of those deaths. And this in no way is justifying the killings of innocent civilians by US troops. > > As for the problematic detentions, we’ve clearly made a bunch of mistakes that also are unforgivable. But there’s a difference between innocent people being detained or tortured by accident and inncoent people being detained by US policy. It’s not like Bush ever said, “Pick innocent people at random, imprison them, and torture them for fun.”, which seems to be what’s being implied. I mean, I don’t like the President, I didn’t vote for him either time, and I wouldn’t vote for him even if I could again. But there’s dislike and over the top. When I was thinking about the number of Iraqis killed, I really wasn’t counting the insurgency - I don’t think the numbers there are significant compared to the numbers of Iraqis killed during the initial invasion and especially by the lack of infrastructure and security (from ordinary crime) that has not come close to returning to pre-Invasion levels three years later. Lack of clean water, lack of medical care, lack of food even! You know, minor stuff. THe fact is, we invaded a secular, largely peaceful (yes, under a tyrant, and I am ignoring the Kurds for the moment) and technologically sophisticated nation and turned it into a near third world nation riddled with sectarian strife. The fact that this was not the intended result does not absolve Bush of responsibility. \*I \* could have told him that this result was likely, and I’m no expert. The current administration would not hear any predictions that did not support their own viewpoint. And no, I don’t believe that Bush ordered the purposeful detention of innocents. But I think there’s been precious little effort to avoid the detention of innocents (in fact the system that was set up was pretty much guaranteed to bring many in), and absolute \*resistance \* to the idea of really making an effort to get them cleared and out. Why in heaven’s name should a President need prisons into which people can disappear with no one allowed to see them, and \*never \* be charged, tried, and absolved/convicted? When this happens in China, we scream “Human rights violation!” and we hold the Chinese government responsible. Why should Bush \*not \* bear responsibility for this? No one is suggesting that Bush is rubbing his hands together in laughing satisfaction like Snidely Whiplash. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/120 "2006-04-26T13:05:57Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > You keep talking about “us” when criticizing US politics. What Utopia are you living in that gives you nothing about your own life to improve and feel the need to tell everyone else how to live? The USA, tardo. We tell everyone how to live. So far we’ve even written guidelines for Iraq’s tax codes. It’s what we do! Last I saw you were stumbling around with a stiffy at the thought. Something changed? -Joe [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181.md?page=7)