# I'm ashamed of you people **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 25, 2006, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181 "2006-04-25T18:25:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/141 "2006-04-26T16:26:33Z")
Look, George Washington thought he was the most abused man in history; there’s a story about a woman asking a friend to look after her Bible if Thomas Jefferson was elected. Disrespecting the president is as old a tradition as we have, and before we had presidents, Americans disrespected kings. The whole reason the correct form of address for our leader is “Mr. President” is that he is not above ordinary Americans. Give me a president worthy of respect (_please!_), and I’ll respect him. Otherwise, I’ll judge him by his actions, just as I would any other human being. ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/142 "2006-04-26T16:27:14Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > That statement is incorrect. One might go so far as to say it is an outright lie. > > As I have stated repeatedly, this isn’t about politics. It’s about respect. You just don’t diss a head of state like that, whether you like his politics or not. I don’t care if we elect a one-legged leper into White House; once we do, he’s the President and is entitled to the courtesy of the office. Sorry, but I don’t respect an office. I can respect a person… unfortunately, I think GWBush is a twit. I didn’t respect many of Clinton’s actions and didn’t vote for him, but he was a much better president than the present one… ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/143 "2006-04-26T16:50:56Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > As I have stated repeatedly, this isn’t about politics. It’s about respect. As I said almost 24 hours ago, > [@](#): > > According to you, your threads are never about politics. They’re always about some bullshit point that you’ve deluded yourself into believing is not political. I guess everyone just thinks you’re a liar and an idiot. Unless you’ve never read the replies to one of your Pit threads, that can’t be a shock… can it? ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/144 "2006-04-26T16:54:45Z")
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6048245&highlight=Clinton#post6048245](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6048245&highlight=Clinton#post6048245) Read the OP and **Clothahump’s** response. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/145 "2006-04-26T16:57:52Z")
See, here’s what I find funny – well apart from the expectation that someone would obviously, OF COURSE give up their hotel reservations for the President. I think we can all agree that the office of President of the US was once held in greater esteem than it is now. Whether you blame that on Watergate or blowjobs or the War on Terrorism, it’s true. We can agree on that, right? **Clothahump** , who are you blaming it on? The liberal media? Rock stars? Clinton? Isn’t it possible that maybe, just maybe, the reason people do not have respect for President Bush is that they don’t think he deserves it, President or no? If the respect for his position has been diluted, couldn’t that possibly have anything to do with him? Couldn’t he have something to do with that dilution? Can Bush ever be blamed for anything? The whole sad affair stinks to me of an inability to take responsibility for one’s own actions – one of those traits always given to liberals and Democrats. But to reiterate what everyone else has said – nobody has the right to expect me to give up my hotel reservations or plane tickets or anything else. They can ask, and I’m free to say “no” if I want, and that should be the end of it. Imagine I was eating dinner at some nice restaurant and my waiter informed me that I was sitting at the President’s (or pope’s or Lance Armstrong’s or Terry Pratchett’s or the Queen of England’s) favorite table, and would I move please? I might move. I might not. If it were the President – ANY President – I’d say “I’d really rather not move, but he’s welcome to join me. I’ve always wanted to have dinner with the President.” …now this is not to say he’s welcome in my hotel room. He probably snores, for starters, and leaves his socks on the bathroom floor. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/146 "2006-04-26T16:59:43Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > As I have said, this isn’t about politics. > > Everything your dad said about Bush was incredibly accurate for Clinton’s Presidency, except for the fact that I didn’t vote for him. However, as bad as Clinton was, he was still entitled to the courtesy of the office. This might have been remotely believable if you had not already publicly stated that you would personally insult President Clinton if you encountered him, face to face [in this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6048245&highlight=clinton#post6048245). ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/147 "2006-04-26T17:04:53Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > This might have been remotely believable if you had not already publicly stated that you would personally insult President Clinton if you encountered him, face to face [in this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6048245&highlight=clinton#post6048245). Five minutes late, but a good find, nonetheless. well done, **bup, tom** ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/148 "2006-04-26T17:10:41Z")
[The Rolling Stones Did Not Say No to Bush](http://www.undercover.com.au/news/2006/apr06/20060426_stones.html) -Link has annoying audio background. > [@](#): > > In a statement, the Stones have denied the story saying “The story circulating about Mick Jagger and the Rolling Stones refusing to give up their reservations at the Imperial Hotel in Vienna for President Bush this June is completely untrue”. > > “No one associated with Mick Jagger, other members of the Rolling Stones, the tour director, or those responsible for travel arrangements for the tour were ever contacted by the Imperial Hotel, President Bush or anyone on his behalf requesting them to change their reservation”. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/149 "2006-04-26T17:16:36Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > This might have been remotely believable if you had not already publicly stated that you would personally insult President Clinton if you encountered him, face to face [in this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6048245&highlight=clinton#post6048245). What… humpy is a hypocritical partisan shill with the honesty and intellectual integrity of a schitzoid sea sponge? Say it aint so! ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/150 "2006-04-26T17:18:38Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > While that’s incoherent, I think you mean “How do I feel when people lash out at me ?” Well, as a white male liberal atheist, that’s all I’ve ever known. That’s funny. I’m a white male liberal atheist, and queer to boot, but that’s not “all I’ve ever known.” Not by a long stretch. Maybe people aren’t lashing out at you because of your white male liberal atheism. Maybe they’re lashing out at you because you a giant fucking douche. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/151 "2006-04-26T17:21:13Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > What… humpy is a hypocritical partisan shill with the honesty and intellectual integrity of a schitzoid sea sponge? Say it aint so! You’re giving humpy far too much credit here, so sure, I’ll say it ain’t so. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/152 "2006-04-26T17:36:56Z")
> [@](#): > > He’s voring Repub in state elections. The only place he’s going deliberately moderate is in the primaries. No sir. I don’t vote straight ticket. Never have, never will. I could have been more clear, I suppose, but you could have been more charitable. I’m voting Republican for governor, but not for every office. > [@](#): > > Keep in mind, of course, that he’s made up his mind six months in advance. Yeah, the Neocon pendulum is really on the backswing now… (not gonna rolleyes) Are you this dense in real life? Of course I’ve made up my mind in the gubernatorial election 6 months in advance. I’ve done my research. Christ, this is at least part of the reason the liberal platform isn’t making more progress. Far leftists have no sense of compromise. If you aren’t as far left as they are, they have no use for you. As for **der trihs** ’s laughable martyr complex, son, try being a socially liberal, environmentally-friendly, pro-gay rights atheist growing up in Montgomery Fucking Alabama. “I’m so very oppressed!” _snort_ ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/153 "2006-04-26T17:39:08Z")
> [@bup](#): > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...ton#post6048245](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...ton#post6048245) > > Read the OP and Clothahump’s response. > [@tomndebb](#): > > This might have been remotely believable if you had not already publicly stated that you would personally insult President Clinton if you encountered him, face to face [in this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6048245&highlight=clinton#post6048245). I guess I’ll have to retract this after all: > [@Sailboat](#): > > Now it is possible that you yourself are not one of those particular barbarians, This is my point. I showed respect for the office and the individual when Reagan was in office, when Bush Senior was in office, and when Clinton was in office, even though I was not a huge Clinton fan, personally. Yet my experience has been that people on the right TALK about respect when it’s their guy, but don’t follow through when the shoe is on the other foot. _You_ were the apparent exception to that rule – but look what turned up. That’s a solid, solid pegging on the hypocrisy meter. It’s funny. Everyone talks about the degradation of political discourse these days; about how both right and left have descended into name calling. Yet little is said about the tone of the rhetoric of the respective sides. I find all too often it’s like this: LEFT: “Bush is evil _because he authorized torture/started a war/clubbed baby seals!_ I want him out of office!” Note the identification of a reason for the dislike, followed by the request for peaceful transfer of office. RIGHT: “It’s too bad that rancher who fired a gun at Cindy Sheehan to threaten her missed.” Note the assumption that murdering a bereaved mother of a soldier is funny, and the if-possibly-even-more insulting assumption that listener might agree. RIGHT: “Let’s shoot a liberal Supreme Court justice so we can get a majority.” RIGHT: “Someone should shoot Clinton.” RIGHT: “Go fuck yourself, Senator.” See a pattern? The right-side rhetoric tends to be muy macho, aggressive, and involve an awful lot of fantasies about killing for a supposedly pro-life political predisposition. It’s my impression, based on the fact that I was alive and conscious during the terms of Bush the Younger, that “he started it” when it came to showing contempt for political opponents. Magnanimity in victory does not describe GWB. Furthermore, I find it fascinating that you’d say this: > [@](#): > > even though he did his best to dishonor it. Clinton is a very capable guy. You think getting a blowjob was his best effort to dishonor the office? Heck, any one of us could beat that in 30 seconds flat. It does not hold a candle to authorizing torture, to cite a purely random example I pulled out of thin air. You and i both know Clinton could have done a lot “better” if dishonoring the office had been his goal. So it’s just cheap rhetoric. But let’s face it – there’s another problem here. > [@Clothahump](#): > > You just don’t diss a head of state like that, whether you like his politics or not. I don’t care if we elect a one-legged leper into White House; once we do, he’s the President and is entitled to the courtesy of the office. That’s the only condition under which you’d respect a one-legged leper? What the hell? Someone gets [Hansen’s disease](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leprosy) and suddenly he or she is your personal poster child for someone not worthy of respect unless holding national office? > [@Clothahump](#): > > I don’t know of anybody, other than the wetbacks, that thinks his immigration ideas have merit. Ahem. I don’t know of anybody, other than comfortable self-absorbed Republicans, that thinks the word “wetbacks” has any merit…especially in a discussion about showing respect. Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/154 "2006-04-26T17:44:52Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I don’t know of anybody, other than the wetbacks, that thinks his immigration ideas have merit. Wow, how did I miss that the first time through? You’re fucking disgusting. I already knew you were a reactionary moron, but how do you manage to keep lowering my opinion of you? I guess you’ve done everybody a favor by admitting you’re a bigot. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/155 "2006-04-26T17:50:05Z")
**Clothahump** , are you…_medicated_? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/156 "2006-04-26T17:52:29Z")
I’m hoping he was trying to be all ironic and use that there post-modern humor the kids all like these days, but I suspect we might just be seeing his true colors now. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/157 "2006-04-26T17:52:41Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Sigh. > > As I have said, this isn’t about politics. And, in saying that, you keep lying. > [@Clothahump](#): > > Everything your dad said about Bush was incredibly accurate for Clinton’s Presidency, except for the fact that I didn’t vote for him. However, as bad as Clinton was, he was still entitled to the courtesy of the office. Except that, as quite a few people have already noted, you have specifically stated that, given the opportunity, you would not accord him such courtesy. You are a bald-faced liar, a moron, and a bigoted asshole. And that may be giving you too much credit. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/158 "2006-04-26T17:59:56Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Are you this dense in real life? Of course I’ve made up my mind in the gubernatorial election 6 months in advance. I’ve done my research. > > Christ, this is at least part of the reason the liberal platform isn’t making more progress. Far leftists have no sense of compromise. If you aren’t as far left as they are, they have no use for you. Good for you, then. But you have to admit that what you had said previously in this thread could be summarized as “This place isn’t going to be as hard-core Conservative Red as it always used to be…I’m seeing changes…oh, but the race I’m mentioning I am voting Red anyways.” That’s how I interpreted it. As for the rest, what the hell are you talking about? You just went ahead and said that things are a-changin’…but they’re not. That’s supposed to be optimistic? You want to see the far-right’s sense of compromise, try talking to **Clothahump** sometime. I’m not even far-left. I’m currently operating on the “throw the bums out”, myself. It’s just that most of those are currently Righties. That fact that I “have no use for you” is that you seem to be looking for more of the same while condemning the same. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/159 "2006-04-26T18:01:22Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > [The Rolling Stones Did Not Say No to Bush](http://www.undercover.com.au/news/2006/apr06/20060426_stones.html) -Link has annoying audio background. Look, that’s not the point. They should have canceled their reservations, _just in case the President wanted them_. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181/160 "2006-04-26T18:05:48Z")
> [@](#): > > As for the rest, what the hell are you talking about? I’m talking about the fact that I’ve been agreeing with you and **RedFury** and **der trihs** in this thread, and I still feel like I’m having to defend myself. > [@](#): > > That fact that I “have no use for you” is that you seem to be looking for more of the same while condemning the same. What the fuck? I just clarified my position for you, and you _still_ claim I’m looking for more of the same? Are you insane? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-ashamed-of-you-people/354181.md?page=9)