# I'm becoming one of them... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 19, 2005, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-becoming-one-of-them/295257 "2005-03-19T02:40:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Nocturne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9fc348/32.png) [@Nocturne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nocturne)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-becoming-one-of-them/295257/21 "2005-03-19T04:11:56Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > Actually, you’re not humble at all. You’re an obnoxious asshole. > > And you need to learn that there’s a difference between being privileged enough to have an education and being ‘pretty fucking stupid’. I come from a lower than middle class background, and now I live in a neighborhood no doubt filled with people like you. And you know what? They aren’t any smarter. They aren’t any better. In fact, I prefer hanging out with the people I grew up with. The kind of people who wouldn’t give a rat’s ass about what kind of car you drive, or how drafty your sun-room is, or whether what you enjoy reading would be approved of by the Harvard faculty. Rather, they care about whether you’re kind, good to your children, honest, and happy. > > But what do they know? They’re just “Joe Schmos”, the lot of them apparently ‘fucking stupid’. > > This thread makes me ill. If I said anything that pissed you off, **Sam** , I’m sorry. I don’t choose people to talk to based on their income levels. I don’t make judgements on how smart a person is based on whether they got a degree or not. ---
**Author:** ![Gorgonzola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e480ec/32.png) [@Gorgonzola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgonzola)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-becoming-one-of-them/295257/22 "2005-03-19T04:12:16Z")
I’d like to suggest a good long stint of volunteering with the truly needy (like serving in a soup kitchen) for anyone needing help with appreciation for notions like humility, gratitude, wisdom, intelligence, the whims of fortune vs. misfortune, class issues, and enlightenment. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-becoming-one-of-them/295257/23 "2005-03-19T04:13:31Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > I hate the fact that I care so much about that. I’m 18 and I’m turning into a yuppie. I shouldn’t care this much about money, or about appearances. Don’t worry. Chances are when you graduate, you’ll rejoin the hoi polloi and you can go back to making fun of the yuppies. I wouldn’t recommend making fun or looking down on yuppies or anyone else, though. Snobs will look down on you because you aren’t rich enough, your parents aren’t cultured enough. You probably know this and may wear this knowledge as a badge of honor. However, snobs on the _other_ end of the economic spectrum will also look down on you for going to an “elite” school and being from a more priviledged background. They may laugh at you when you say you’re “working class”. To them, you’ve always been just another rich yuppie. You shouldn’t be ashamed of being poor. You shouldn’t be ashamed of being rich. Just drink the Perrier and eat the fried Spam and smile. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-becoming-one-of-them/295257/24 "2005-03-19T04:18:21Z")
By the way, why is snobbery being characterized as a strictly upper-class phenomenon? Is this mythologizing of the poor the new equivalent to the “noble savage” myth? Does anyone really believe that the salt-of-the-earth types don’t often look down on folks with effete habits like reading books and going to plays? Anyway, I grew up dirt poor, and I’m still not all that much better. It’s fine with me, though, as I like to remember that, just by the lucky happenstance of being born in a Western country, I lead a better life than a good 90% of the world. ---
**Author:** ![BabaBooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BabaBooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BabaBooey)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-becoming-one-of-them/295257/25 "2005-03-19T04:20:53Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > You might want to find a mirror, repeat that in front of it, and reflect on either A) the hypocrisy of what you just said, or B) your own stupidity. What’s hypocritical about it? I don’t think it’s debatable that their is a median of intelligence and that their are people on either side. I’m saying that I’m on the more desirable side, but don’t value myself over those that aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Gorgonzola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e480ec/32.png) [@Gorgonzola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgonzola)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-becoming-one-of-them/295257/26 "2005-03-19T04:21:20Z")
Salt-of-the-earth types (like Bavarians) often read books and magazines. They just get them at the library. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-becoming-one-of-them/295257/27 "2005-03-19T04:22:33Z")
**Nocturne:** No, not at all. I was responding to someone else. This is a hot-button issue with me, because this kind of class distinction is, in my opinion, borne of the same impulse as racism. Putting other people into categories so that they may be judged as a class and deemed to be worthy or not. Any time you catch your self saying “those people” as a group in a disparaging tone, you should go wash your mouth out to remove any residual foulness left by the passage of such evil sentiments. People are individuals. Judge them by how they treat you and others. Ignore the trappings of wealth or how they choose to entertain themselves. Resist the temptation to push whole groups of people into categories which you can you to make yourself feel superior. There’s a very fine line between those who say, “Those rednecks are stupid idiots” and those who would say, “Those niggers belong in the fields.” If your high-priced college degrees are worth 1/10 of the price of the parchment they’re written on, you will learn that before you graduate. Sadly, far too many do not. In the meantime, recognize that the impulse to start thinking that way is truly evil. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-becoming-one-of-them/295257/28 "2005-03-19T05:12:52Z")
> [@BabaBooey](#): > > What’s hypocritical about it? I don’t think it’s debatable that their is a median of intelligence and that their are people on either side. I’m saying that I’m on the more desirable side, but don’t value myself over those that aren’t. But that’s not what you said, is it, BabaBooey? You actually said: > [@](#): > > I’m in a very similar situation, raised by a lower middle class family surrounded by upper middle/lower upper class folk, but I’m not so sure it’s just a phase for me. I know I’m not more important than Joe Shmoe, neither are you, but Joe Shmoe is also pretty fucking stupid. My parents aren’t terribly intelligent (I love them to death, of course), I see working class morons all the time simply going out in public, and worst of all, “The Pacifier” was the #1 movie in the country last week. I’ve always been a humble person, but I really don’t think it takes much accomplishment for it to be easy to look down on many of those around us. You’re stating not that “their is a median of intelligence and that their are people on either side” (you might want to learn the difference between “their” and “there” if you’re going to claim to be on the high side, pal) you’re stating that lower middle class people, or what you call “working class morons,” are stupid. Yeah, right. Look, I went to a GOOD school. A really top notch university. I met people who graduated from that school who didn’t have the brains God gave a rock. And I’ve met working class folks who were damned straight. Boy, kid, are you in for a terrible, terrible shock when you have to actually be an adult. Oh, it’s going to be hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-becoming-one-of-them/295257/29 "2005-03-19T05:20:43Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > This is a hot-button issue with me, because this kind of class distinction is, in my opinion, borne of the same impulse as racism. Putting other people into categories so that they may be judged as a class and deemed to be worthy or not. And working-class people never do this? As a fairly intellectual person who nevertheless always buys generics and gets most of her clothes from the discount rack at Target, I’ve seen ugly attitudes from both sides of the aisle. Yes, I’ve had people look down at me because of the amount of television my parents watch or their accents or the fact that they don’t even read Oprah book club books. But also, I’ve had my relatives sneer at the amount of books I read, and ask why I wasn’t doing something sociable and/or constructive. I didn’t let myself move into the city (a move which is, so far, one of the best decisions I’ve made) for years and years because my relatives would lay guilt trips on me relating to class/culture issues (“oh, she just wants to move to the city because she’s too good for us, let’s leave the big city girl alone”). Intolerance isn’t merely the domain of the rich and educated, it’s rampant in jerks of all stripes. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-becoming-one-of-them/295257/30 "2005-03-19T05:31:01Z")
> [@continuity eror](#): > > And working-class people never do this? Sure they do. And it’s just as wrong when they do it. ---
**Author:** ![BabaBooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BabaBooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BabaBooey)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-becoming-one-of-them/295257/31 "2005-03-19T05:44:19Z")
Yeah, I fucked up the English, pretty embarrasing thing to do making that comment; however, I AM an adult. I’m 22, my parents can’t afford to send me to college. I work to pay my way, purchased my car on my own, pay insurance, pay rent, etc… The only difference between myself and the adults you’re referring to is that I’m in college, they’re not. The working class folk I’ve met have been a mixed bag. I’ve had one group that consists of either good people or assholes (even moreso than myself) that lead good lives, the responsible type that make the most of what is given to them. I’m pretty much referring to the lower class white collar workers and some blue collared folk I’ve met in small businesses. Then there’s there’s the rest of the blue collared group that I’ve worked closely with. They were all good people mind you, treating myself, each other, and customers well, but they give me so many reasons to look down on them. They are in there mid 20’s-mid 30’s, have multiple children that they may or may not support (if they aren’t married) yet they obviously can’t afford to have. They have huge debts that they constantly complain about, yet still manage to afford the liquor or drugs that they partake in several times a week. They tell stories of unnecessary fist fights, drunk driving, and seemingly deserved confrontations with police officers that they simply don’t understand. Although my feelings probably seem to be based on religion (xianity in particular), I assure you they are not (I’m agnostic). I also don’t want to give the impression that I feel this way only about blue collared folk as I am 100% certain their are white collards in a simlilar vein. It’s just that I have no reason to respect those people. They just don’t understand that their own stupidity/irresponsibility have lead to their current situations. But as I mentioned, these are good peoples, some of them very reliable, kind, and trustworthy. That’s why I don’t consider myself better than any of them, but it’s a simple fact that they are stupid and irresponsible. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-becoming-one-of-them/295257/32 "2005-03-19T05:53:18Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > What is with Oprah’s book club? I have a hard time imagining how the people she normally keeps hooked on rape-murder-torture movie of the week crap handle it when she pushes Gabriel Garcia Marquez and Isabel Allende and Toni Morrison. Since this is the pit: Hey asshole, perhaps the “readily apparent idiocy” of anyone who dares to watch Oprah is in fact an illusion. Perhaps they can watch Oprah _and_ appreciate literature of the likes you’ve mentioned. If you’re a true appreciator of this art, you’ll just be happy that more people can be exposed and form their own opinions on it rather than being upset that Oprah has the audacity to bring the, “unwashed ignorant masses” into your precious little Ivory Tower. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-becoming-one-of-them/295257/33 "2005-03-19T06:09:25Z")
**Sam Stone** and **continuity error** are both right. But “sides” do this and both are wrong. For instance, I’ve been treated as if I’m “putting on airs” because I don’t like Jerry Springer. It also appalls me to see people treat others like they are _those_ people. What are _those_ people, anyway? I used to work retail in a posh neighborhood, and occasionally some rich bitch would put on airs. I never found the self-proclaimed “elite” to be that much more intelligent or tasteful. Ugh. The whole thing is distasteful to me. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-becoming-one-of-them/295257/34 "2005-03-19T06:11:13Z")
Don’t have much to add except to say that you are attending a great school there in Santa Fe (It has to be the one I am thinking of - hell, there is not much there). I had 4 friends graduate from there and they were all well eduacated, well rounded people (though they did watch too much TV 😉 ). You should be proud of yourself, but get over this holier than though thing. You’re not and when you are 35 (if not before) you will realize it. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-becoming-one-of-them/295257/35 "2005-03-19T06:14:52Z")
holier than thou… I need a better spell checker. Or I need to use it consistantly. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-becoming-one-of-them/295257/36 "2005-03-19T06:15:50Z")
I went to one of those “little ivies”, and being from a small town in ME, felt quite a bit of culture shock. My peers kept me from becoming too much of a snot by casually insulting me on a regular basis without even knowing it. “You’re from Maine? No way!” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-becoming-one-of-them/295257/37 "2005-03-19T06:19:55Z")
These people raised you and probably gave you everything you have now. You haven’t mentioned if they’re paying for your school yet - if they are, I wouldn’t be breathing a word of ingratitude to them. If they’re not, I wouldn’t then, either, because they are still your parents, and you owe them a lot. My husband says you have nothing to worry about if you’re worrying about this. You’re just becoming self-aware. ---
**Author:** ![Gorgonzola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e480ec/32.png) [@Gorgonzola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgonzola)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-becoming-one-of-them/295257/38 "2005-03-19T06:26:32Z")
> [@yosemite](#): > > For instance, I’ve been treated as if I’m “putting on airs” because I don’t like Jerry Springer. Though this might not apply to you specifically, I’ve seen this notion stated many times in this thread, and I sincerely doubt that the sting of it (particularly when received by someone who has already stated at length that they devalue and disdain the chunky parts of the bell curve), especially when delivered in response to a monologue on the poverty of original thought on television, lacks the sharpness of that experienced by those on other side of being dismissed as far too common to be taken seriously. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-becoming-one-of-them/295257/39 "2005-03-19T07:39:35Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > I come from a lower than middle class background, and now I live in a neighborhood no doubt filled with people like you. > [@](#): > > _Any time you catch your self saying “those people” as a group in a disparaging tone, you should go wash your mouth out to remove any residual foulness left by the passage of such evil sentiments._ > [@](#): > > _You might want to find a mirror, repeat that in front of it, and reflect on either A) the hypocrisy of what you just said, or B) your own stupidity._ Priceless. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-becoming-one-of-them/295257/40 "2005-03-19T08:07:23Z")
Heh. You’re right. It’s not quite the same, because the only people I’m saying think like that are… people who think lik ethat. But still… You’re right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-becoming-one-of-them/295257.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-becoming-one-of-them/295257.md?page=3)