# I'm begging you, America! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 17, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343 "2016-02-17T15:22:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/81 "2016-02-18T18:29:37Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It’s been pointed out, but wrongly so. For one thing, it doesn’t take into account consumption. Trump has spent many hundreds of millions if not billions just living for the last 40 years or so. And he’s started from essentially nothing and built businesses that have made him a multi-billionaire twice. Once when he first started out, and again after he found himself with a negative net worth close to a billion dollars in the early nineties. He most certainly has a genius, not just for making money but also for battling his way out of downturns that would sink most others. I rarely agree with you about anything, but I think you’re at least partially right here. That is, it’s ridiculous for liberals to downplay Trump’s undeniable genius at, umm, being Trump, which is a combination of making money and keeping himself in the public eye. He didn’t end up where he is by accident. That said, I don’t see any particular reason to think that that precise skill set is particularly relevant for the job of US president. Or, for that matter, the job of building up and running a single business that actually does things. Is there a factory somewhere that exists and employs people solely because of the hard work of Donald Trump? (As opposed to, say, a hotel in Vegas that would exist and would still employ people, but would just be named something else, if not for the hard work of Donald Trump?) ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/82 "2016-02-18T18:34:49Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The problem of wishfully thinking that he is not what he appears to be now is that besides all his current associations he is not apologizing for very stupid and racist tweets; he has said before that his more liberal positions from the past have “evolved” (yeah I do think he missed a “d” in that word) and so we have what we are seeing today. > > The point is that it is really wishful thinking to expect that Trump will do a 180 and dismiss all the sorry beings that supported him and made him president (becoming president remains a big if, but it remains a possibility). As a business man he will know about the debts he will have to pay. I don’t think he will get the nomination but if he does, he will backtrack on a lot of the stuff that you find repulsive and run as “NOT Hillary” Religion: Trump claims to be religious but his church says he is not an active member (IOW, he mostly shows up for weddings (mostly his) and funerals). Abortion: His views on abortion are not credible. There is no way he is as pro-life as he claims. Someone who walked the road to Damascus would be a lot more religious than him and there are precious few other ways to flip on that issue so quickly other than religious conversion. Racism: The only real evidence (other than the shit he has been saying since he started running for president) is a lawsuit when he was 5 years out of college against the company that his father ran for decades and Trump had just taken over. And it was after all just a lawsuit, not a judgment. I don’t support him and I think that his lack of political experience would make him a horrible head of state. I don’t think anyone would describe him as diplomatic. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/83 "2016-02-18T18:36:22Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Not at all well. He has a genius for not making money. It’s been pointed out that if he had put the money he inherited in an index fund he’d have more money now than with all his projects. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/84 "2016-02-18T18:37:30Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > So much for honesty, ethics, NOT fvcking your business partners, etc. I’d sooner trust an Aussie brown snake to not bite. Not fucking his business partners? Assuming you’re talking about Trump’s casino bankruptcies, what would you have him do? Keep the doors open until they shut off the lights and the sheriff comes to padlock the doors? And even if so, how’s that going to repay the businesses’ investors and debt holders? It makes no sense not to take a business into bankruptcy if it’s failing and has debts it has no hope of paying. I have no idea where all this stuff about fucking his partners comes from. Investors know they’re taking a risk. And generally the greater the risk the greater the potential return. Basically they’re gambling profit vs. loss. In the case of Trump’s casinos they profited for quite a while during the time his casinos were successful. Then the New Jersey casino business tanked (for everyone in it, not just Trump) and they lost money. Sucks to be them but they knew what they were getting into. Trump would have been perfectly happy to continue running those casinos at a handsome profit indefinitely had the bottom not dropped out of New Jersey’s casino business. But it would have made no sense whatever to keep them going and throwing good money after bad until they come to lock the doors. ---
**Author:** ![umop\_ap\_sdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/dbc845/32.png) [@umop\_ap\_sdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/umop_ap_sdn)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/85 "2016-02-18T18:41:01Z")
> [@Bruce\_Wayne](#): > > I trust him more than Santa Claus or Mrs. Zero Charisma. It’s true that it’ll feel like the holidays have come early if the guy with the white hair wins. 😃 > [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Zina? I thought they stopped making that stuff? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/86 "2016-02-18T18:46:32Z")
> [@fc1114](#): > > America is **NOT** a country. The United States of America is a country. Shut up. There’s more than enough derp in this thread already. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/87 "2016-02-18T18:47:37Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I rarely agree with you about anything, but I think you’re at least partially right here. That is, it’s ridiculous for liberals to downplay Trump’s undeniable genius at, umm, being Trump, which is a combination of making money and keeping himself in the public eye. He didn’t end up where he is by accident. > > That said, I don’t see any particular reason to think that that precise skill set is particularly relevant for the job of US president. Or, for that matter, the job of building up and running a single business that actually does things. Is there a factory somewhere that exists and employs people solely because of the hard work of Donald Trump? (As opposed to, say, a hotel in Vegas that would exist and would still employ people, but would just be named something else, if not for the hard work of Donald Trump?) Trump’s companies employ tens of thousands of people who are employed as a direct result of the opportunities he’s recognized and been smart enough and skilled enough to capitalize on. His skill set is relevant to running the country because he understands money, which is important in managing an economy; because he has proven skills at negotiation, which would be important when dealing with congressmen and foreign leaders; at riding herd over and getting complex and difficult things accomplished in a timely and successful manner; and because of his history in hiring excellent people and getting the most out of them, meaning he’d likely have a very efficient and effective Cabinet and White House administrative staff. Just because Trump’s a businessman it doesn’t automatically follow that he would try to run the country as a business, or that he lacks the necessary skills to run the country as a country and not as a business. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/88 "2016-02-18T19:56:58Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Zina? You referenced social nationalism. If we just rearrange that phrase a little we get national socialist. I just followed the pattern for shortening the philosophical term. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/89 "2016-02-18T20:04:45Z")
I’m voting Dem in Nov. The question is which repub do I vote for in Primaries? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/90 "2016-02-18T20:38:48Z")
> [@chela](#): > > I’m voting Dem in Nov. > > The question is which repub do I vote for in Primaries? 😉 Operation Chaos!?! ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/91 "2016-02-18T21:11:02Z")
> [@fc1114](#): > > America is **NOT** a country. The United States of America is a country. Tell that to Paul Simon. Apparently it would have saved him four days hitchhiking from Saginaw if he’d have known he needn’t bother looking for America. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/92 "2016-02-18T22:55:11Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > The man can apparently run a business. > [@enipla](#): > > Apparently by running a business into the ground. > > Trump has declared bankruptcy four times. But has managed to line his own pockets quite well. Ah, but those were all Chapter 11 bankruptcies; reorganizations. So if the US was about to default on the debt who has better experience than Trump to get top dollar selling off Federal assets to the highest bidder? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/93 "2016-02-18T23:14:22Z")
Say what you will about Trump, he is the only republican who has said he would protect medicare, medicaid & social security. He also has criticized the lobbyist system of corruption we have. He also came out in [favor](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/02/18/trumps-truly-absurd-claim-he-would-save-300-billion-a-year-on-prescription-drugs/)of using the power of the government to negotiate prescription drug prices (something the republicans have opposed and something the democrats only give lip service to). Of all the republicans, he is least bad. The reason Trump and Sanders are doing so well is because they speak out against the corrupt oligarchy that runs the country at the expense of the voters. So hopefully it’ll be Trump vs. Sanders in 2016, with president Sanders sworn in next year. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/94 "2016-02-18T23:46:03Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > The man can apparently run a business. No he can’t. His net worth now is less than if he’d just put his inheritance into an index fund tracking the stock market and done nothing. He has a track record of putting his name on things and walking away when they fail, leaving others to take the losses. Trump is a failed businessman. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/95 "2016-02-19T02:45:22Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > No he can’t. His net worth now is less than if he’d just put his inheritance into an index fund tracking the stock market and done nothing. He has a track record of putting his name on things and walking away when they fail, leaving others to take the losses. > > Trump is a failed businessman. [I’ll be damned.](http://www.moneytalksnews.com/why-youre-probably-better-investing-than-donald-trump/) Edit, maybe not. > **[Occupy Democrats graphic oversimplifies Trump's inheritance](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2015/dec/09/occupy-democrats/occupy-democrats-say-simple-investment-trumps-fath/)** > > Donald Trump is a billionaire and he plays it up big in his bid to be president. What he did in business, he argues, he ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/96 "2016-02-19T04:37:51Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Not fucking his business partners? Assuming you’re talking about Trump’s casino bankruptcies, what would you have him do? Keep the doors open until they shut off the lights and the sheriff comes to padlock the doors? And even if so, how’s that going to repay the businesses’ investors and debt holders? > > It makes no sense not to take a business into bankruptcy if it’s failing and has debts it has no hope of paying. I have no idea where all this stuff about fucking his partners comes from. Investors know they’re taking a risk. And generally the greater the risk the greater the potential return. Basically they’re gambling profit vs. loss. In the case of Trump’s casinos they profited for quite a while during the time his casinos were successful. Then the New Jersey casino business tanked (for everyone in it, not just Trump) and they lost money. Sucks to be them but they knew what they were getting into. Trump would have been perfectly happy to continue running those casinos at a handsome profit indefinitely had the bottom not dropped out of New Jersey’s casino business. But it would have made no sense whatever to keep them going and throwing good money after bad until they come to lock the doors. He has a pretty good history of pocketing a lot of money and filing bankruptcy. that means someone somewhere got fucked. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/97 "2016-02-19T04:41:23Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Say what you will about Trump, he is the only republican who has said he would protect medicare, medicaid & social security. He also has criticized the lobbyist system of corruption we have. > > He also came out in [favor](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/02/18/trumps-truly-absurd-claim-he-would-save-300-billion-a-year-on-prescription-drugs/)of using the power of the government to negotiate prescription drug prices (something the republicans have opposed and something the democrats only give lip service to). > > Of all the republicans, he is least bad. The reason Trump and Sanders are doing so well is because they speak out against the corrupt oligarchy that runs the country at the expense of the voters. So hopefully it’ll be Trump vs. Sanders in 2016, with president Sanders sworn in next year. Now this at least, I can and WILL agree with. He is the least disastrous of the Republican candidates. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/98 "2016-02-19T04:50:08Z")
Yeah know, foreign dignitaries should not weigh in on electoral candidates, it never works to their advantage. No nation likes being told what to do by foreigners, least of all Americans. And Trump is not wrong for once, I don’t see a Syrian Refugee camp in Vatican City. I feel let down The Donald didn’t call El Papa a loser. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/99 "2016-02-19T06:04:05Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > The only people he’s insulted are those who read at the fourth grade level. I’m guessing you’re feeling mighty pissed off then. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/100 "2016-02-19T09:23:43Z")
I haven’t voted since 1995. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343.md?page=6)