# I'm begging you, America! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 17, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343 "2016-02-17T15:22:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/101 "2016-02-19T09:42:25Z")
Regarding Trump’s businesses, let’s not quibble over a billion dollars or two. The fact is that running a large company for several decades is a remarkable feat _even if you only equal the performance of the S&P 500._ Whether this qualifies Trump to serve as President is a separate question. But to suggest that Cruz or Rubio is _more_ qualified than The Trump is quite laughable. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/102 "2016-02-19T09:45:13Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > [I’ll be damned.](http://www.moneytalksnews.com/why-youre-probably-better-investing-than-donald-trump/) > > Edit, maybe not. > > [PolitiFact | Occupy Democrats graphic oversimplifies Trump's inheritance](http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/dec/09/occupy-democrats/occupy-democrats-say-simple-investment-trumps-fath/) Its not clear cut, but on average Trumps growth has only been roughly the same as an unmanaged stock fund would have been give or take $100 million or so. This is not the work of a great investor and canny business man. Its less than nothing compared to what someone like Warren Buffet has done. The only reason anyone thinks Trump is a good business man is because he keeps telling us he is, and some idiots will believe anything. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/103 "2016-02-19T10:13:03Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Say what you will about Trump, he is the only republican who has said he would protect medicare, medicaid & social security. He also has criticized the lobbyist system of corruption we have. > > He also came out in [favor](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/02/18/trumps-truly-absurd-claim-he-would-save-300-billion-a-year-on-prescription-drugs/)of using the power of the government to negotiate prescription drug prices (something the republicans have opposed and something the democrats only give lip service to). > > Of all the republicans, he is least bad. The reason Trump and Sanders are doing so well is because they speak out against the corrupt oligarchy that runs the country at the expense of the voters. So hopefully it’ll be Trump vs. Sanders in 2016, with president Sanders sworn in next year. Trump has endorsed a universal healthcare system at one point, iirc. Basically he had to reverse half of his positions to run as a Republican. I don’t want him has President because he’s unprincipled and egotistical and speaks/acts before he thinks. I’d rather have a chessmaster running the country than a guy who sucks at speed chess. But he’s somehow, incredibly, better than the rest of the Republicans. It tells you something when more democratic voters want a socialist and more republican voters want a flip-floppy almost-Democrat. But no one will be happy with the outcome. Hillary will be the next President, and both liberals and conservatives alike will sigh with disgust at the mediocrity to come. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/104 "2016-02-19T10:14:36Z")
Dunno how reliable this source is Can’t even spell the word “magnate” > **[Trump Pretty Much Says He Supports Universal Health Care During 60 Minutes...](https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2015/09/28/trump-60-minutes-interview-n2057986)** > > Making America Great Again ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/105 "2016-02-19T10:14:51Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I would be willing to suffer a Trump presidency just for the anguish it would cause the self righteous virtue signalling yet hypocritical left. Yes, we know. You’ve said it multiple times in multiple threads. You such a petty, vindictive shit that you would be willing to see the country go down in flames out of spite for your political opponents. **Terr** had the same issue. I’m still not sure you’re not a sock of his. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/106 "2016-02-19T10:17:36Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Its not clear cut, but on average Trumps growth has only been roughly the same as an unmanaged stock fund would have been give or take $100 million or so. This is not the work of a great investor and canny business man. Its less than nothing compared to what someone like Warren Buffet has done. > > The only reason anyone thinks Trump is a good business man is because he keeps telling us he is, and some idiots will believe anything. Including those who think he came from nothing. Although “inheritance” is a FOUR-syllable word. Trump usually uses two syllables or less to get cheers from his mindless supporters. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/107 "2016-02-19T10:19:25Z")
Coming soon: Republican House Democrat Senate True stripes Hillary: middle of the road President compromising with the Republicans more than Obama tried to. Nothing gets done for people making $50k a year and under, but business dealings happen and the rich get richer, no other issues resolved Back to this same crap 4 years from now. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/108 "2016-02-19T10:20:50Z")
Oh, and I still say that Trump gets into a dick waving contest with Putin and we all lose. The guy does not know when to back down. His entire strategy in business is high risk high reward. That is, if the other nations don’t start building up against the U.S. preemptively. I’ve always considered it an exaggeration before, but, in this case, we’re actually talking about a narcissistic sociopath here. The one thing keeping me going is that he actually has a fucking -20 approval rating. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/109 "2016-02-19T10:23:46Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > Trump usually uses two syllables or less to get cheers from his mindless supporters. _I do not know half of you you, half as much as I should like. And I like less than half of you, half as well as you deserve._ ---
**Author:** ![umop\_ap\_sdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/dbc845/32.png) [@umop\_ap\_sdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/umop_ap_sdn)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/110 "2016-02-19T10:46:02Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Whether this qualifies Trump to serve as President is a separate question. But to suggest that Cruz or Rubio is _more_ qualified than The Trump is quite laughable. Cruz and Rubio are at least politicians.Trump is a career businessman (if that). He is simply not a politician. Running a business and running a country are two very different things that require two very different skill sets. That’s why it’s clear that Trump has applied for a position he’s vastly underqualified for, and he should not be brought back in for further interviews. Let him campaign for an entry level elected office and work his way up. OTOH, since he’s running as a GOP candidate, I guess you could argue that running a business into the ground and running a county into the ground don’t require different skillsets… ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/111 "2016-02-19T12:02:57Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Its not clear cut, but on average Trumps growth has only been roughly the same as an unmanaged stock fund would have been give or take $100 million or so. This is not the work of a great investor and canny business man. If you’d gone to the link **Wesley Clark** posted you’d see that argument is bullshit. It ridiculously claims that if Trump had invested the $200 million he inherited from his father in 1999 in 1974 it would equal the amount Trump is alleged to be worth now. Apparently the idea is that Fred Trump’s money was actually Donald Trump’s money and that Fred/Donald’s holdings were the same amount in 1974 as they were when Fred died in 1999. This is laughable. In 1974, Donald Trump was given management of his father’s business. But he wasn’t given the assets it contained, which remained the property of his father. And by the time his father died in 1999 and Donald came into his $200 million dollar share of the inheritance, he had already made himself a multi-billionaire, lost it and wound up almost a billion in debt, and recovered once again to multi-billionairehood. In other words by the time he got that $200 million from his father’s estate it was essentially pocket change. Another problem with the idea that had Trump put whatever his worth allegedly was in 1974 into money market funds he’d be worth more now is the fact that it completely ignores the YYUGE (sorry) amount of money he’s spent just living over the last forty-five years. That amount has to be figured into what he’s earned as well, and it probably numbers over a billion on its own. So essentially there’s no truth at all to the claim that had Trump simply invested the amount he was allegedly worth in 1974 he’d have the same amount or more now. It’s just not true, or even close to true. It’s just a specious bit of verbal sleight-of-hand intended to fool people who don’t know any better. Don’t be one of these low-information voters. I know it’s hard to admit that a politician you don’t like actually has talents and abilities, but facts are facts, and the fact is that Donald Trump is an exceptionally gifted and adroit businessman. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/112 "2016-02-19T12:07:21Z")
> [@umop\_ap\_sdn](#): > > Cruz and Rubio are at least politicians.Trump is a career businessman (if that). He is simply not a politician. Running a business and running a country are two very different things that require two very different skill sets. That’s why it’s clear that Trump has applied for a position he’s vastly underqualified for, and he should not be brought back in for further interviews. Let him campaign for an entry level elected office and work his way up. > > OTOH, since he’s running as a GOP candidate, I guess you could argue that running a business into the ground and running a county into the ground don’t require different skillsets… My post #87 addresses this issue: > [@](#): > > [Trump’s] skill set is relevant to running the country because he understands money, which is important in managing an economy; because he has proven skills at negotiation, which would be important when dealing with congressmen and foreign leaders; at riding herd over and getting complex and difficult things accomplished in a timely and successful manner; and because of his history in hiring excellent people and getting the most out of them, meaning he’d likely have a very efficient and effective Cabinet and White House administrative staff. Just because Trump’s a businessman it doesn’t automatically follow that he would try to run the country as a business, or that he lacks the necessary skills to run the country as a country and not as a business. ---
**Author:** ![umop\_ap\_sdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/dbc845/32.png) [@umop\_ap\_sdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/umop_ap_sdn)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/113 "2016-02-19T14:33:54Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > My post #87 addresses this issue: I hardly think building walls and banning specific nationalities/religions are effective foreign relations skills! Unless the goal is to get the rest of the world to hate the USA more than they already do. In business, your competitors are supposed to dislike you, but foreign relations are a whole nother ball of wax. No longer is it just $ at stake but also lives. Anyway your post doesn’t address whether he has the qualifications, it addresses whether he has the skills. I didn’t attempt to show that he would run the country as a business, only that his experience is in running businesses not in holding elected office. Before the voters over him a position as powerful as POTUS, he really should prove himself in a smaller political position. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/114 "2016-02-19T14:40:02Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > But no one will be happy with the outcome. Hillary will be the next President, and both liberals and conservatives alike will sigh with disgust at the mediocrity to come. I don’t know, right now “mediocre” sounds pretty good. A hell of a lot better than "President Trump and Premier Putin have moved hundreds of missiles to the Aleutian Islands and are shouting at each other. Trump, at a press conference at his command center on Secretary of Rogue-ness Sarah Palin’s roof, just kept brandishing a big red button and yelling “Putin’s a LOOOOSER!”. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/115 "2016-02-19T14:53:18Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Yes, we know. You’ve said it multiple times in multiple threads. You such a petty, vindictive shit that you would be willing to see the country go down in flames out of spite for your political opponents. > > **Terr** had the same issue. I’m still not sure you’re not a sock of his. Exemplars of one of my least favorite flavors of conservatism, founded on simple principles: A) Everything a liberal thinks or says is wrong. B) Every idea or plan by a liberal will lead to failure. C) I will become angrier every time (A) or (B) turn out not to be the case. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/116 "2016-02-19T15:04:32Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > If you’d gone to the link **Wesley Clark** posted you’d see that argument is bullshit. It ridiculously claims that if Trump had invested the $200 million he inherited from his father in 1999 in 1974 it would equal the amount Trump is alleged to be worth now. Apparently the idea is that Fred Trump’s money was actually Donald Trump’s money and that Fred/Donald’s holdings were the same amount in 1974 as they were when Fred died in 1999. > > This is laughable. In 1974, Donald Trump was given management of his father’s business. But he wasn’t given the assets it contained, which remained the property of his father. And by the time his father died in 1999 and Donald came into his $200 million dollar share of the inheritance, he had already made himself a multi-billionaire, lost it and wound up almost a billion in debt, and recovered once again to multi-billionairehood. In other words by the time he got that $200 million from his father’s estate it was essentially pocket change. > > Another problem with the idea that had Trump put whatever his worth allegedly was in 1974 into money market funds he’d be worth more now is the fact that it completely ignores the YYUGE (sorry) amount of money he’s spent just living over the last forty-five years. That amount has to be figured into what he’s earned as well, and it probably numbers over a billion on its own. > > So essentially there’s no truth at all to the claim that had Trump simply invested the amount he was allegedly worth in 1974 he’d have the same amount or more now. It’s just not true, or even close to true. It’s just a specious bit of verbal sleight-of-hand intended to fool people who don’t know any better. Don’t be one of these low-information voters. > > I know it’s hard to admit that a politician you don’t like actually has talents and abilities, but facts are facts, and the fact is that Donald Trump is an exceptionally gifted and adroit businessman. Aren’t you the guy who also defends Sandusky? Your judgement isn’t exactly your strong suit. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/117 "2016-02-19T15:31:10Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Yes, we know. You’ve said it multiple times in multiple threads. You such a petty, vindictive shit that you would be willing to see the country go down in flames out of spite for your political opponents. > > **Terr** had the same issue. I’m still not sure you’re not a sock of his. You assign too much power to the presidency and have a potty mouth. If people with the same opinion on a subject were a “sock” what would the term be for magnitude of the liberal echo chamber here? Why that would just be enlightened, compassionate, intellectual discourse! Hypocrit. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/118 "2016-02-19T15:32:11Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Coming soon: > > Republican House Democrat Senate > True stripes Hillary: middle of the road President compromising with the Republicans more than Obama tried to. > > Nothing gets done for people making $50k a year and under, but business dealings happen and the rich get richer, no other issues resolved > > Back to this same crap 4 years from now. A corporate leaning Clinton wouldn’t be terrible. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/119 "2016-02-19T15:38:02Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > But no one will be happy with the outcome. Hillary will be the next President, and both liberals and conservatives alike will sigh with disgust at the mediocrity to come. Given the disastrous alternatives being offered, I’ll take mediocrity as the best thing on the table.😉 ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343/120 "2016-02-19T15:43:34Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Exemplars of one of my least favorite flavors of conservatism, founded on simple principles: > > A) Everything a liberal thinks or says is wrong. > B) Every idea or plan by a liberal will lead to failure. > C) I will become angrier every time (A) or (B) turn out not to be the case. I support a lot of “liberal” ideas so that nonsense doesn’t apply to me. What I don’t like are some of the tactics and some of the guiding principles of the left. I’m not angry Obama is president. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-begging-you-america/746343.md?page=7)