Enjoy sticking your fingers in your ears.
Pathetic
World Eater, 'luce, I like you guys, really. But damn . . . shrill, much?
… Unless it’s a Republican that does it, in which case, that “simple fact” in Lucy’s head gets twisted and warped into “EEEEEEEEEEEEEEVIL!!!”
As for the OP…
The first quote simply pointed out the prevailing belief at the time, that had BEEN prevailing for a decade. Kerry was simply as unaware of the lack of evidence as the six billion other people on the planet.
The second quote, I believe, is just use of pretty normal hyperbole, sentiments shared by thousands of rational, intelligent people.
Wow, World. I’m, like, totally in awe of how, y’know, totally jaded you are, and stuff. Dude, it’s like, you’re TOTALLY hip, man! Stick it to the 'stablishment!
Jesus. Buncha fogies in the Chicken Little party trying desperately to reinvent the counter-culture. To quote someone in this thread… “Pathetic.”
Not quite sure what you mean here, Spoofy, your statements get harder to parse when you hyperventilate. That is what the big paper bag is for, yes?
But if you mean I would not respond positively if a Republican took a conscientious stand against capital punishment…well, point one out to me, that I may applaud.
I agree with pretty much everything Ogre says. Getting rid of Saddam Hussein was enough of a reason to invade Iraq in and of itself. I don’t like that we acted unilaterally, but I’m also not too thrilled that we needed to act unilaterally. How can we expect dictators like Hussein to follow international law if we’re not prepared to punish them for violating it?
I also feel that this is a totally seperate issue from the way that GWB handled the marketing of the war. The fact that I, personally, didn’t need the argument about WMDs to support the invasion doesn’t mean it was okay for Bush to lie about their exsistence to convince other people. So, as a pro-war liberal, I get to have my cake and eat it, too. A murderous dictator was deposed and a formerly oppressed nation has a shot at democracy and freedom, and I still get to abuse the Prez for getting us into the conflict in the first place.
Point it out as often as you like, red herrings are cheap and I’m not paying. While you’re at it, you might like to point out to me where I’ve ever even mentioned this issue. I’m not sure I’m the one with difficulties with reading comprehension.
And my point has always been that such a minority existed, a fact you now appear to be acknowledging. If you’d just done that in the first place, I woudn’t have needed to correct you.
The fact that you bothered to hijack a thread to shrilly correct my harmless hyperbole is implication enough. Plus, I’m familiar with your posting history and attitudes about the war. Such inference was hardly unreasonable. Don’t be disingenuous.
Pathetic. I simply pointed out one particular thing you’d said which was demonstrably false. Three lines. All you had to do was say: “Yes, OK, not everybody thought Saddam had WMD”. That would have ended it. But no, you had to launch into a diatribe 5 paragraphs long, calling me names, launching red herrings, raising straw men and making excuses about your falsehood just being hyperbole. I post once more, making it clear that I was making one point and one point only. Did you end it there? No, what we get is another four paragraphs attacking my reading comprehension and once more raising pathetic red herrings. I confirm once again (for the third time) that I was making one point and one point only and finally the penny drops and you now come up with some blather which amounts to “It’s your fault that I read things into your posts that weren’t there”.
And I’m the one that’s being “shrill” and “hijacking” this thread? Yeah, right.
Fuckwit.
And all you had to do, Princhester, was not be a gigantic cock when you pointed out Ogre’s hyperbole. Apparently, that was a little too tough for you, wasn’t it?
Still, it’s a good thing you did point it out. We didn’t want anyone to read Ogre’s post and assume from it that there hadn’t been any debate on the issue. I know that I, for one, thought, “Wow, everyone? That’s really weird, because I thought there were a lot of arguments about it! I guess I was wrong!” Thank God you were there to clear that up for all of us who are completely literal and totally naive. It’s good that there are shining lights like you out there in the big inky blackness.
Ogre makes a statement that was (a) wrong (b) something that it has been pointed out over and over in various debates to be wrong (c) offensive in that it treats a significant number of people as “nobody” (d) something that Ogre knew or should have known was offensive to such people since that also had been pointed out over and over.
I called Ogre on this in very ascerbic terms. This makes me a gigantic cock? If so, I’m proud to be a gigantic cock, frankly.
No problem, any time.
“He was a dick, so I was justified in being a bigger dick.”
:rolleyes:
Yes, Princhester, you hijacked the thread. This is empirically demonstrable. The thread was completely, to the sentence, about Kerry’s comments regarding WMDs and Osama bin Laden’s hypothetical capture and trial, until you chose to take umbrage at my one little bit of hyperbole and launch the thread off in the direction of my “inexcusable misjudgement.”
That there is a vocal minority of war supporters is no secret. Such a fact needed no independent verification from me.
What you really wanted was an admission that “my” misjudgement was inexcusable. I then explained that it was not “my” misjudgement at all, that I never cared one way or another and was in fact mystified why Bush and Co. hung their hats on it.
To claim that you wanted (completely unnecessary) confirmation from me that, yes, there are war protesters out there, without mentioning your misdirected value judgement in the very next sentence is extraordinarily dishonest.
So, to clear my good name with you, Princhester, hearken:
There exist those out there who never thought Iraq had WMD’s.
I do not admit, however, that I suffered from any “misjudgement,” nor that my beliefs about the war were or are inexcusable. What I find inexcusable is the insanely pedantic way you decided to single-handedly hijack a largely unrelated thread to attempt to make an impotent (and yes, shrill) point about Iraqi WMD’s.
Moron.
Sorry, the above should obviously read, “That there is a vocal minority of war protesters is no secret.”
And look, while we’re at it, lets clear up the issue of whether Ogre was actually engaging in “one tiny bit of hyperbole”.
This is what Ogre said:
[my emphasis]
Now let’s try rewriting that without the “one tiny bit of hyperbole”:
You see, Ogre wasn’t engaging in a tiny bit of hyperbole, he was stating a falsehood, without which his position was untenable.
It wasn’t inaccurate, as the context made it completely obvious that he was merely saying it was a commonplace, and excusable, assumption.
In other words, everyone already knew about it. You know, we all noticed the enormous debate over the war in Iraq. We’re all aware that there were gigantic protests worldwide. We all heard all about it. Ogre wan’t trying to cover up the exsistence of people who didn’t think Iraq had WMD. It’s a given fact of the debate. It doesn’t need to be restated in every single thread on the topic. The fact that there is a debate in the first place is proof that everyone knows there are two sides to the issue.
You’re insane.
ibid.
Yes, it does. You were the first one to go aggressive. If the point was so incredibly important that you had to make it (and that’s an eyerolling proposition right there) you could have said, “Come now, Ogre, old chap, you know very well that there was a large segment of the population that didn’t think the WMDs exsisted or were a viable excuse for invasion. I know you didn’t mean to discount them, but it’s important that their exsistence is acknowledged.” Instead, you were a prick about it, and then you started whining when Ogre quite rightly took issue with your tone. You took the first swing, you don’t get to bitch when the other guy swings back.
I was not on a hijack at any point. Your falsehood was used by you to support Kerry. Calling you on that falsehood was therefore precisely on point, and not a hijack.
You, on the other hand, were the one who kept trying to drag the debate off into the reasons you supported for the war, a topic I never went into because that had been done to death in other debates. And what is even more risible is the fact that you kept attempting to suggest that it was me who was trying to do so.
Actually, Princhester, you’re putting words in my mouth. I would not have said “except a small but significant and vocal minority of people in the US, the UK and Australia, notable dissenters from the intelligence community, and the UN weapons inspectors.” Given the extremely casual nature of the comment, I would more than likely have said, had it occurred to me that some pedantic ass like yourself would get in a stir about it, “I know everybody (well, not everybody, but most) thought Iraqi WMD’s, given Hussein’s history, were an absolute clinch at the time.”
Would this have staved off your bizarre attacks?
My position on the issue of the thread remains no less tenable. Kerry was, more than likely, simply stating that he had faith that if the White House said it had reason to believe Iraq had WMDs, then said reason existed. Not hard.
Umm, what the fuck are you talking about?
I considered this prediction to be laughable, YMMV. Let’s compare outcomes in a few years.
M’kay brother? :rolleyes:
Bullshit. He said Kerry “had no way of knowing”. The only way that Ogre could support that particular bullshit statement was by making a further bullshit statement, namely that “everybody” thought there were WMDs.
This thread is about Kerry’s judgment. Kerry was not in a position where he had no way of knowing, no clues, no dissenting voices about WMD to listen to. Kerry had a way of knowing, he just got it wrong.
This is bullshit as stated above. Ogre’s argument relied upon discounting the dissenting voices that Kerry could have but did not listen to. Further, if you’d care to read his posts, Ogre admits precisely that he does discount that segment of the population. His words were, if I recall correctly, “blah, blah blah”. You ought to read the posts of those you are defending more carefully.