# I'm calling bullshit on wine story **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 4, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675 "2014-11-04T21:49:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/121 "2014-11-07T21:25:18Z")
Pardon me, somehow lost a “no” while editing: the person asking has no reason to expect the ones being asked would assume the meaning is “Thirty-Seven and Fifty Cents” due to no cents in the price list. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/122 "2014-11-07T21:29:17Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > It was a thousand dollar meal for 10 people. $100/person is no doubt pricier than the average person spends, but I’d be shocked too to find a $3000 bottle of wine in a place where the entrees are between $30 & $50. This was my thinking too. I’d roughly expect the house wine to be around $30 to $40 just based on their food prices. The high end wines maybe a few hundred bucks a bottle. This just didn’t seem like a restaurant that would stock $4000 bottles of wine. Thats why I’d assume 37 50 had to be 37.50. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/123 "2014-11-07T22:12:27Z")
Hell, even at $150-$200 a plate or more, a $3000+ bottle of wine is still abnormally high. Even if I knew wine prices were in whole-dollar amounts, my mind would assume an exception to that before thinking such an expensive wine would be offered like that. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/124 "2014-11-07T22:19:53Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > My initial belief that this was a scam included the possibility that Lentini was lying. The waitress could have said “three thousand seven hundred and fifty” but Lentini and his friends could all claim she said “thirty seven fifty”. But she chose the wine, not him. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/125 "2014-11-07T22:26:33Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Pardon me, somehow lost a “no” while editing: the person asking has no reason to expect the ones being asked would assume the meaning is “Thirty-Seven and Fifty Cents” due to no cents in the price list. Except that it’s already been established, more than once, that his whole argument rests on a claim that he asked the waiter the price in the first place because he could not even see the prices, due to the fact that he did not have his glasses. Simply continuing to assume, as you are doing, that he could discern the prices and was aware of the lack of cents, is dishonest and disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![Fair\_Rarity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fair_rarity/32/153_2.png) [@Fair\_Rarity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fair_Rarity)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2014, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/126 "2014-11-08T02:16:32Z")
I don’t drink wine, but I have a general idea of pricing. If I asked for a recommendation at a nicer place and the server told me “thirty-seven fifty,” I would assume $37.50, thinking what was being suggested was a good value. It wouldn’t even occur to me that it was $3,750. I think the customer should have had his glasses on and the server should have been more clear. I side with the customer because even if the server wasn’t trying on purpose to pull one over on him, the server should have used better language. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2014, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/127 "2014-11-08T08:03:20Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I remember watching something about a famous high-end Parisian restaurant selling it most prestigious/costly bottles. They said that between the loss risk (wine turning bad, bottle broken,…), the storage cost and the low demand, it was a net loss, hence the sale. > > ETA : of course, they might have been lying, and selling the prestigious bottles just because they needed the money. I have no way of disputing you but generally I would expect a restaurant that has a “wine cellar” to buy good wines in bulk. And by that I mean they buy cases at $10-$15 a bottle for resale in the $30 range. I can’t imagine anyone paying $50-$100 a meal would fork out $3,750 for… ANYTHING. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2014, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/128 "2014-11-08T16:43:18Z")
I’ve never worked at a restaurant that served thousand dollar wines, but every restaurant I worked in did have a policy of requiring manager notification if the bill was reaching a certain dollar amount or if there was anything unusual about the table. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/129 "2014-11-08T16:54:22Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > But she chose the wine, not him. Think about it. Where did you learn that she chose the wine? You read it in the news article. And where did they get their information? From Lentini. It’s always important to check the provenance of information. Knowing who said something is as important as knowing what was said. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/130 "2014-11-08T17:21:54Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Except that it’s already been established, more than once, that his whole argument rests on a claim that he asked the waiter the price in the first place because he could not even see the prices, due to the fact that he did not have his glasses. Simply continuing to assume, as you are doing, that he could discern the prices and was aware of the lack of cents, is dishonest and disingenuous. Again, I’m rebutting this notion: > [@](#): > > “…knowing full well that most people would understand that to mean $37.50,” Foderaro said. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Think about it. Where did you learn that she chose the wine? You read it in the news article. And where did they get their information? From Lentini. And it is human nature for him and his wife to present his side of the story in the best possible light. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2014, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/131 "2014-11-08T19:45:34Z")
For me, this whole thing boils down to evaluating likely scenarios, and as far as i’m concerned, the customer’s story simply seems completely plausible, especially given the possible alternatives. Some people have posited that he might be a scam artist who tries this sort of bullshit just to get expensive wine for free, but that doesn’t even pass the sniff test. Anyone doing this would have to recognize the relatively high risk-to-reward ratio. It just doesn’t make sense. Some have argued that he might be a jackass or a practical joker who ordered an incredibly expensive bottle on purpose, knowing that he was not the one picking up the tab. Again, while this is within the realms of remote possibility, it seems incredibly unlikely. I don’t know a single person who would do this sort of shit to his friends. I guess it’s possible that people making huge amounts of money might play multi-thousand dollar practical jokes on one another, but that also seems like a pretty rare scenario, and people doing that would generally be willing to eat the costs themselves and not complain about it if the joke went wrong. There is simply no scenario we have been presented with that is more plausible than the customer’s own story. Even the restaurant does not actually deny any of the most important elements of the customer’s story. It says that the customer was presented with the bottle. I have no trouble believing that, but it doesn’t prove anything one way or the other regarding the customer’s awareness of the real price of the wine. And the idea of recommending a three-thousand dollar bottle of wine in the first place was also a dick move by the server. I say all this as someone who worked for quite a few years as a waiter and bartender, and whose first impulse in cases like this is generally to take the side of the server rather than the customer. ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/132 "2014-11-08T19:58:54Z")
> [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](#): > > Are bottles of wine, of any price level, in any restaurant, ever priced with cents at the end? I think that should’ve been a tip-off. If the price ends in “9/10 cents,” that’s usually a bad sign. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2014, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/133 "2014-11-08T22:24:00Z")
A few more thoughts: 1. From the [NJ.com](http://NJ.com) article’s photo, Mr. Lentini appears to be at least 40 years old and lives in a fairly nice house. He’s probably been to fairly expensive restaurants and should know that you ALWAYS ask the price of wine as well as off the menu specials. 2. I’m still stunned the restaurant didn’t send a manager over to confirm the purchase. I’d much rather be take the heat for going too far to confirm that a customer did indeed mean to purchase a $3750 bottle of wine than be stuck with this bad publicity. 3. It seems odd that the waitress would even be allowed to recommend a bottle of wine. If a place employs a sommelier, then that person should be the only person recommending wines. 4. Was the party already pretty intoxicated? While they may have not had drinks at the dinner, at a casino, I could easily see them entering the restaurant after a few cocktails on the casino floor. That sounds a bit more plausible than, “I forgot my glasses.” ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2014, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/134 "2014-11-08T22:36:22Z")
I’m sure that this isn’t the case, but I still remember what a bank manager said once many years ago after a client left her office and drove off in a fine Italian sports car. Me- “Wow, that is one nice looking Ferrari…” Her- “Yeah. It’s Amazing what you can afford when you don’t pay for it…” ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/135 "2014-11-09T00:05:36Z")
I’m trying to frame an argument the owner could make. My food is so good that the 1% are lining up to eat it but they can’t be expected to go without their vintage wines. Honestly, the more I think about it the less slack I’m willing to cut the owner. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/136 "2014-11-09T00:10:35Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > 1. From the [NJ.com](http://NJ.com) article’s photo, Mr. Lentini appears to be at least 40 years old and lives in a fairly nice house. He’s probably been to fairly expensive restaurants and should know that you ALWAYS ask the price of wine as well as off the menu specials. Per the story we’ve been told, he _did_ ask the price of the wine. BTW that all of the wines were priced at even dollar amounts perhaps explains what happened. The waitress assumed that saying “thirty-seven fifty” could mean only $3,750. But someone unfamiliar with that wine list might not have been aware of that fact. And as others said, it’s odd for a waitress to suggest one of the two or three most expensive wines on the list. If I’m interested in that level of wine, I’d expect to have an extended conversation with the sommelier. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/137 "2014-11-09T00:21:06Z")
I wonder what they get for a beer? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/138 "2014-11-09T01:19:08Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Think about it. Where did you learn that she chose the wine? You read it in the news article. And where did they get their information? From Lentini. > > It’s always important to check the provenance of information. Knowing who said something is as important as knowing what was said. Definitely (and I tried to address this upthread in a necessarily speculative manner.) While I’m on the subject of dead horses, the other takeaway is to have skepticism for wire style articles. AP is notorious for glossing over pertinent sorts of questions, though they are fast and cheap. The OP linked to an AOL article and it was little better. I thought [NJ.com](http://NJ.com) had a nice treatment, with the reporter duly and explicitly agnostic, but also digging for corroborating evidence. If this story had legs, I’d also look for a NYT treatment. Seriously, a lot of news sources are pretty weak and should be evaluated accordingly. Some years ago, Brill’s Content did a piece on reporting standards in women’s magazines: I’d characterize their work as ranging from propagandistic to semi-fictional. Ok, say there are no decent treatments of a news story. What do you do? I say remain agnostic. Don’t like that? Tough. ETA: > [@mhendo](#): > > For me, this whole thing boils down to evaluating likely scenarios, and as far as i’m concerned, the customer’s story simply seems completely plausible, especially given the possible alternatives. > > Some people have posited that he might be a scam artist who tries this sort of bullshit just to get expensive wine for free, but that doesn’t even pass the sniff test. Anyone doing this would have to recognize the relatively high risk-to-reward ratio. It just doesn’t make sense. Disagree, sort of. There are such scammers, IMHO. But _they are typically more persistent_ and necessarily publicity shy. Doesn’t fit the facts. A real scammer wouldn’t have accepted the bill: he would have refused to pay and threatened to create a scene. > [@](#): > > And the idea of recommending a three-thousand dollar bottle of wine in the first place was also a dick move by the server. Bears repeating. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/139 "2014-11-09T02:15:36Z")
Reminds me a bit of the story about the UK businessman who was charged 75 pounds ($94 USD) for 3 waters because he didn’t realize that there was a minimum charge at a hotel’s cigar terrace. > **[H2-OH: Man charged £75 for three bottles of water](https://metro.co.uk/2014/07/28/h2-oh-thats-a-big-bill-man-charged-75-for-three-bottles-of-water-at-london-hotel-4812699/)** > > A businessman has vowed to never step foot inside a London hotel again after he was charged £75 for three bottles of water. ---
**Author:** ![Waterman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b2d939/32.png) [@Waterman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waterman)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/140 "2014-11-09T08:35:03Z")
From the [nj.com](http://nj.com) story: > [@](#): > > “I asked the waitress if she could recommend something decent because I don’t have experience with wine,” Lentini said. “She pointed to a bottle on the menu. I didn’t have my glasses. I asked how much and she said, ‘Thirty-seven fifty.’” > > The drinkers at the table agreed to the price and they ordered, Lentini said. > > Soon, the sommelier – the wine steward – presented the corked bottle at the table. Lentini said he was having conversation with his companions and didn’t really pay attention, but he approved of the bottle. > > A taste of the wine was served for him to sample. He approved, he said, and the bottle was placed on the table. > > “It was okay. It was good,” Lentini said of the wine. “It wasn’t great. It wasn’t terrible. It was fine.” With all of the talk about the customer trying to scam the restaurant I wonder if the scam wasn’t being played out by the waitress and the sommelier. At a final settlement price of $2200 the restaurant still covers the cost of the wine plus some profit and who knows what bonuses or commissions the waitress and sommelier may have in regards to wine sales. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675.md?page=8)