# I'm calling bullshit on wine story **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 4, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675 "2014-11-04T21:49:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Inna\_Minnit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Inna\_Minnit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inna_Minnit)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/141 "2014-11-09T10:45:08Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > I’m on the side of the restaurant. > > Anyplace you go where an entree is in the $30-$50 range, $37.50 is dirt dirt cheap for a bottle of wine, especially if a recommendation was asked for. > > This generally means to me “something nice” - not the house red. > > The customer may well have genuinely misunderstood, but is his fault - he should be more careful what he orders. In my world a $50 entree would be an extravagance. Not unheard of, but a special occasion. I would think that a bottle of wine in the same price range as my meal would be about the right cost. But I hate red wine. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/142 "2014-11-09T10:51:02Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > Reminds me a bit of the story about the UK businessman who was charged 75 pounds ($94 USD) for 3 waters because he didn’t realize that there was a minimum charge at a hotel’s cigar terrace. > > [http://metro.co.uk/2014/07/28/h2-oh-thats-a-big-bill-man-charged-75-for-three-bottles-of-water-at-london-hotel-4812699/](http://metro.co.uk/2014/07/28/h2-oh-thats-a-big-bill-man-charged-75-for-three-bottles-of-water-at-london-hotel-4812699/) Again maybe it is that I have no experience with something like this other than cover charges or minimums at bars, which are ALWAYS collected at the door or clearly posted, but that looks like a scam to me. Is it possible the servers foolishly get complacent and just assume every customer is so rich they won’t care? ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/143 "2014-11-09T16:59:01Z")
> [@Waterman](#): > > From the [nj.com](http://nj.com) story: > > With all of the talk about the customer trying to scam the restaurant I wonder if the scam wasn’t being played out by the waitress and the sommelier. At a final settlement price of $2200 the restaurant still covers the cost of the wine plus some profit and who knows what bonuses or commissions the waitress and sommelier may have in regards to wine sales. Hmm,this might be a possibility if they both were planning on quitting. I know several casinos in New Jersey have closed and the incident took place in September, towards the end of beach season. So, I could see some sort of a plot like this if both employees were planning on leaving. But, according to Wikipedia, the Borgata is one of the few casinos in Atlantic City doing well. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/144 "2014-11-09T17:42:21Z")
> [@Waterman](#): > > With all of the talk about the customer trying to scam the restaurant I wonder if the scam wasn’t being played out by the waitress and the sommelier. At a final settlement price of $2200 the restaurant still covers the cost of the wine plus some profit and who knows what bonuses or commissions the waitress and sommelier may have in regards to wine sales. I can’t buy that possibility. For the restaurant to knowingly have scammed Lentini, the waitress would have had to know she was going to be asked for a recommendation. And she would have had to point out the most expensive wine on the price list - which would mean she somehow would have had previous knowledge that Lentini couldn’t read the price without his glasses. And she would have had to hope that Lentini would only ask her about the price rather than show the wine list to his wife or friend to read. And that when she said “thirty seven fifty” Lentini would think $37.50 was a believable price. The chances of all this happening are effectively zero. I can’t see any way in which the restaurant was trying to fool Lentini. The only possibilities I see were that Lentini was trying to fool the restaurant or there was a genuine lack of communication. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/145 "2014-11-09T19:52:41Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I wonder what they get for a beer? Its a casino and I haven’t been to one outside of a birthday for a very long while. Way back in the day, before 4 casinos tanked in AC, I seem to remember the high-line restaurants charged you easily 500% mark up. It always made it worth it to suck-up parking & eat at a family-style place on The Black Horse Pike (Og, I Miss “H.I.Ribs” and if you can get a reservation at “The Smithville Inn”, Do it. ). I never understood the Trump idea that if you made a normal paycheck, you had no business in AC because only the Benjamin-Franklin-Charmin-Elite were supposed to eat, drink, and game there. Still, its that paradigm that puts $3,750 bottles of Cab on a menu and makes people think about picking it. There are a Million things wrong with AC now and I couldn’t fix it if I tried. Still, I’ve been saying for 30 years that there is a Huge workforce down there that would adapt flawlessly to manufacturing. Hijack Be Damned: What About it Cambell’s Soup? What about it Ford? Don’t you think that if all those people had Paychecks and Worked for you that they just MIGHT buy your products? Or is that just Too Hard for you to understand? \*Oh, I don’t know… why not right here? You remember that old tool and machinery works? You tell your father he can get that for a song. And all the labor he wants, too. Half the town was thrown out of work when they closed down. \* ---
**Author:** ![Waterman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b2d939/32.png) [@Waterman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waterman)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/146 "2014-11-09T20:25:27Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I can’t buy that possibility. For the restaurant to knowingly have scammed Lentini, the waitress would have had to know she was going to be asked for a recommendation. And she would have had to point out the most expensive wine on the price list - which would mean she somehow would have had previous knowledge that Lentini couldn’t read the price without his glasses. And she would have had to hope that Lentini would only ask her about the price rather than show the wine list to his wife or friend to read. And that when she said “thirty seven fifty” Lentini would think $37.50 was a believable price. > > The chances of all this happening are effectively zero. I can’t see any way in which the restaurant was trying to fool Lentini. The only possibilities I see were that Lentini was trying to fool the restaurant or there was a genuine lack of communication. Any scam on the part of the waitress/sommelier could have been precipitated by the waitresses observation of 1) someone different from the one picking out the wine paying the bill, and/or 2) the fact that some or all of the party were already intoxicated. No prior knowledge of Lentini not having his glasses, etc would have been required to initiate the scam. ---
**Author:** ![Waterman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b2d939/32.png) [@Waterman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waterman)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/147 "2014-11-09T20:28:40Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Hmm,this might be a possibility if they both were planning on quitting. I know several casinos in New Jersey have closed and the incident took place in September, towards the end of beach season. So, I could see some sort of a plot like this if both employees were planning on leaving. But, according to Wikipedia, the Borgata is one of the few casinos in Atlantic City doing well. IMHO, there quitting wouldn’t have anything to do with it. This may have been something routinely attempted with a very small percentage of success but when the right mark came along then they would hit the jackpot. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/148 "2014-11-10T01:33:09Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Does have a _Thunderbird_ ring to it, doesn’t it. What’s the word? > [@clairobscur](#): > > But if you think wealthy people are above that, you’re sorely mistaken. Some people are always on the lookout to get something for free, be it by deception, scam or outright theft. And the only difference wealth make is that wealthier people will try to get more costly items (because that’s what they consume). A billionaire friend has said, “There’s nobody cheaper than rich people.” ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/149 "2014-11-10T02:31:43Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Cab = cabernet, a type of wine. specifically a burgundy a little “woodier” than the “fruitier” pinot noir. I’m not even a wine drinker. I’m a beer lover. But I do enjoy a cabernet sauvignon every now and then. ETA: Meaning, "I don’t know shit about wine, but I’ve imbibed some cabernet sauvignon and liked it, so I look for that on the label. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/150 "2014-11-10T03:24:48Z")
> [@Waterman](#): > > Any scam on the part of the waitress/sommelier could have been precipitated by the waitresses observation of 1) someone different from the one picking out the wine paying the bill, and/or 2) the fact that some or all of the party were already intoxicated. No prior knowledge of Lentini not having his glasses, etc would have been required to initiate the scam. No, I’m not buying it. It’s wildly improbably bordering on impossible. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/151 "2014-11-11T04:50:13Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > [Wine list](http://www.bobbyflaysteak.com/file/2210/BFS_Wine%20(7).pdf)for what I’m sure is the restaurant in question, [Bobby Flay Steak](http://www.bobbyflaysteak.com/menus.php) at the Borgata Hotel/Casino in Atlantic City. There isn’t a full-sized bottle of [Edit] wine for less than $40 bucks on the entire list. $60 if we’re just talking American Cab. Seriously, look at the list. Most of the red wines there have three digits in the price. Granted, Eagle’s an outlier (and the Harlan’s supposed to be a better bottle at half the price), but a casino restaurant has to have some high end for the douchebag/big winner/goombah demographic. Usually, IME, the markup gets less obscene the higher up the list you go, but Veblen governs the situation for goods like these, I think. Napa mailing list wines have weird economics anyway; I haven’t looked at auction prices for wines like Harlan, or S. Eagle, or Sine Qua Non, etc… in a while, but 3750 USD/btl doesn’t strike me as utterly out of line, considering she makes, what, 200 cases of the first growth? (Wiki says 400-750, but I think they’re including the second wine in that total. Which is also listed on the Flay wine list. [Edit, again, and Jean Phillips/Heidi Barrett isn’t running the show anymore, so strike out ‘she’][) Those 200 cases, or 2400 bottles, have to go to everyone in the world with a big wallet and a desire to impress, be they Russian oligarchs, Chinese land barons, Hollywood types, etc… See Burgundy for similar prices. > > As to your last point, I’ve seen similar scammy, scummy behavior working in the hotel industry. Some people will try to get over on you no matter how much money they’re ostensibly worth. Especially if the guy picking it isn’t going to be the one on the hook for the bill if the scam doesn’t work out. And if you get too inquisitive as a server, “Are you sure SIR, really SURE? You do know this is a nearly $4 thousand dollar bottle of wine?”, then they get butt-hurt because you don’t think they can afford it. I usually when going out, point to a wine on the list and say to the server, “I’m looking for something in this range,” etc… > > Anyway, my vote is scam, and I think the solution reached by both parties was mutually beneficial. If the food’s anything like Flay’s TV cooking, they should’ve been drinking margaritas/Negra Modelos anyway. This. Screaming Eagle is a “look at me” super low production Napa Cabernet that’s jaw-droppingly expensive. I’ve tried a few small tastes and it is in fact _really_ good…not my usual style, as I tend to prefer balanced elegance over power in my wines, and when I do want an American wine with power I tend to gravitate towards Red Zinfandels because they are super yummy and I can actually afford them, but SE is really damn good nonetheless. Not almost $4000 good to me, but impressively good. Wine markup in restaurants versus retail has been outrageous for decades. It’s hard to believe that people don’t know that in 2014, especially at a higher end place with $30-50 entrees. Restaurant markup is generally 200-300% over retail on wines. It’s pretty common knowledge, just like paying $10 for an ounce and a half pour of decent bourbon at the same place. The markup is similar and how high-end restaurants make much of their money. It sure isn’t the food. A $9 a glass “house” wine of decency costs the restaurant $10-12 and they get five pours for a total of $45. It is what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2014, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/152 "2014-11-13T01:19:57Z")
So do we believe Lentini when he said he wanted decent wine OR [do we believe](http://abcnewsradioonline.com/business-news/man-accidentally-orders-3750-bottle-of-wine.html#ixzz3IuImE1f3) > [@](#): > > the Borgata says Lentini had asked for “their best bottle” of Cabernet and that the server and sommelier both verified that they wanted the bottle before the group drank it. If he ordered the best, do you really believe he thought it was $37.50? ---
**Author:** ![DingoelGringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@DingoelGringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DingoelGringo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2014, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/153 "2014-11-13T01:27:53Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > I don’t drink, so maybe that sort of name isn’t unusual for an expensive wine, but “Screaming Eagle”?? 😕 That sounds like something I’d expect a wino to be drinking. Right beside the Mad Dog on the shelf at 7/11 ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2014, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/154 "2014-11-13T03:41:30Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So do we believe Lentini when he said he wanted decent wine OR [do we believe](http://abcnewsradioonline.com/business-news/man-accidentally-orders-3750-bottle-of-wine.html#ixzz3IuImE1f3) > > If he ordered the best, do you really believe he thought it was $37.50? Even if he didn’t order the “best” - he himself admits to asking for a “decent” bottle… Personally I would never expect a “decent” bottle of wine, that I’d asked a waiter to recommend would be $37-50, doubly so in the sort of place we are talking about here… So my upshot is…maybe the restaurant could be clearer, but the bulk of the blame lies with the customer - a 30-odd % discoount seems like a “fair” outcome… ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/155 "2014-11-13T20:15:26Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I wonder what they get for a beer? If you have to ask, you can’t afford it. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/156 "2014-11-14T05:12:21Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Even if he didn’t order the “best” - he himself admits to asking for a “decent” bottle… > > Personally I would never expect a “decent” bottle of wine, that I’d asked a waiter to recommend would be $37-50, doubly so in the sort of place we are talking about here… > > So my upshot is…maybe the restaurant could be clearer, but the bulk of the blame lies with the customer - a 30-odd % discoount seems like a “fair” outcome… $37.50 buys a decent bottle of wine in any wine store. Making wine isn’t rocket science. It’s not like a vineyard can throw money at the grapes and make them something special. It’s wine not a Porsche. There’s certainly nothing on the menu that suggests a paring with a multi-thousand dollar wine. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/157 "2015-05-15T17:29:14Z")
Seems to me he asked for a recommendation - they gave him one. He asked for the price - they told him. The bottle and price was on the menu - he had the menu in his hand. They verified that that was what he wanted - he said yes but claims he was “distracted” What do you want the restaurant to do for God’s sake? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/158 "2015-05-15T17:55:44Z")
This thread is so much better having aged for six months. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/159 "2015-05-15T18:01:17Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > This thread is so much better having aged for six months. He was going to look at the date, but he was distracted. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/160 "2015-05-15T18:18:17Z")
They should drop the price of all wines to no more than a hundred bucks a bottle. Nobody can tell the difference anyways, you’re paying for perceived brand quality [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675.md?page=9)