# I'm calling bullshit on wine story **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 4, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675 "2014-11-04T21:49:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/161 "2015-05-15T18:27:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > He was going to look at the date, but he was distracted. He didn’t have his glasses, and thought the “11” looked like a “5”. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/162 "2015-05-15T18:54:21Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > They should drop the price of all wines to no more than a hundred bucks a bottle. Nobody can tell the difference anyways, you’re paying for perceived brand quality I posted this earlier in the thread but it was either ignored or unnoticed. > **[Does All Wine Taste the Same?](https://www.newyorker.com/tech/frontal-cortex/does-all-wine-taste-the-same)** > > Another American wine region has performed far better than expected in a blind tasting against the finest French châteaus. > [@](#): > > Another test that Brochet conducted was even more damning. He took a middling Bordeaux and served it in two different bottles. One bottle bore the label of a fancy grand cru, the other of an ordinary vin de table. Although they were being served the exact same wine, the experts gave the bottles nearly opposite descriptions. The grand cru was summarized as being “agreeable,” “woody,” “complex,” “balanced,” and “rounded,” while the most popular adjectives for the vin de table included “weak,” “short,” “light,” “flat,” and “faulty.” > … > The answer returns us to the sensory limitations of the mind. If these blind testings teach us anything, it’s that for the vast majority of experts and amateurs fine-grained perceptual judgments are impossible. Instead, as Brochet points out, our expectations of the wine are often more important than what’s actually in the glass. When we take a sip of wine, we don’t taste the wine first, and the cheapness or expensiveness second. We taste everything all at once, in a single gulp of thiswineisMoutonRothschild, or thiswineisfromSouthJersey. As a result, if we think a wine is cheap, then it will taste cheap. And if we think we are tasting a premier cru, then we will taste a premier cru. Our senses are vague in their instructions, and we parse their inputs based upon whatever other knowledge we can summon to the surface. It’s not that those new French oak barrels or carefully pruned vines don’t matter—it’s that the logo on the bottle and price tag often matter more. Maybe it’s my working class upbringing or maybe it’s the fact that I don’t drink alcohol (for medical reasons) but I can’t imagine paying $100 for a bottle of _anything_ let alone $3 or $4 thousand. How good can something taste? Does a $2000 bottle of wine taste 100 times better than a $20 bottle? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/163 "2015-05-15T20:17:08Z")
Probably neither side was scamming. The waitress may have been tired and, anyway, worked in a casino where people might throw as much on the toss of a single card. But there is one matter for which verification by audio would be nice. Customer allegedly asked for a “decent wine.” [QUOTE=Merriam-Webster] decent adjective de·cent \ˈdē-sənt … 4 : fairly good : adequate, satisfactory \ [/QUOTE] “Decent” wine should be in the $100 - $400 price range, I’d say – customer is not liable. I’d think the waitress out-of-line for recommending more than, say, $1000 even if he’d asked for a “nice wine.” ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2015, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/164 "2015-05-17T15:16:32Z")
How common is it for a customer to order a $3750 bottle of wine in this particular restaurant? That price point simply blows my mind. I don’t think I’ve lived a sheltered life, but paying a price that you could buy a decent used car for one single bottle of wine is absolutely foreign to me. Even if I was a billionaire, I cannot fathom that type of excess. How good can the wine possibly be to justify such a price? I guess some people would be offended by repeatedly asking if they are sure they want to order this wine, but I would welcome the repeated inquiry because there is no way in hell I would want it. Especially when I am paying $30 for the main course and $10 for an appetizer. I would expect any wine I ordered to at least be within sight of those prices. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/165 "2015-05-17T15:28:30Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > Seems to me he asked for a recommendation - they gave him one. > > He asked for the price - they told him. > > The bottle and price was on the menu - he had the menu in his hand. > > They verified that that was what he wanted - he said yes but claims he was “distracted” > > What do you want the restaurant to do for God’s sake? I expect the waiter to confirm explicitly that the bottle is “three-thousand, seven-hundred, and fifty dollars” not “thirty-seven fifty.” And I expect a waiter never to recommend a bottle that expensive in the first place, not unless the customer has indicated that he is looking for that kind of a wine. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2015, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/166 "2015-05-17T15:55:20Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I expect the waiter to confirm explicitly that the bottle is “three-thousand, seven-hundred, and fifty dollars” not “thirty-seven fifty.” And I expect a waiter never to recommend a bottle that expensive in the first place, not unless the customer has indicated that he is looking for that kind of a wine. And that’s how you’ll end up with a bill for $3750 for a bottle of wine. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2015, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/167 "2015-05-17T16:05:16Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I expect the waiter to confirm explicitly that the bottle is “three-thousand, seven-hundred, and fifty dollars” not “thirty-seven fifty.” And I expect a waiter never to recommend a bottle that expensive in the first place, not unless the customer has indicated that he is looking for that kind of a wine. Agreed. Unless I make a statement such as “I’m celebrating, so I want you to recommend the very best wine. Money is no object here” only then should a waitress think of recommending a multi-thousand dollar bottle of wine. And if she does, she should clearly enunciate the price; not with marketing lingo, but with the full price. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2015, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/168 "2015-05-17T22:26:30Z")
While this discussion is back: How does the “sip to sample” work if the customer declines? Do they toss the bottle, or do they stick it in a cabinet with air evac (corked with a stopper with a nitrogen feed) and hope to sell it by the glass? Has anyone ever sent back a wine? Ever seen it done? I used to have money and have eaten at some nice (real - not a Casino) restaurants. I have seen the ritual probably a hundred times and have never seen a bottle declined. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2015, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/169 "2015-05-17T23:37:25Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Has anyone ever sent back a wine? Ever seen it done? I saw it done once. I was one of a party of 4, all of us guys at a Usenix conference in Dallas. We went to a medium-fancyish restaurant. One of them ordered the wine. The sommelier brought it, poured out the little sample. The guy tasted it, and announced: “This wine . . . isn’t right.” (IIRC one of the other guys tasted it and agreed with that.) Then the sommelier tasted it himself and agreed. Then the took the bottle away and brought another one. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2015, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/170 "2015-05-18T01:26:29Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > While this discussion is back: > > How does the “sip to sample” work if the customer declines? > > Do they toss the bottle, or do they stick it in a cabinet with air evac (corked with a stopper with a nitrogen feed) and hope to sell it by the glass? > > Has anyone ever sent back a wine? Ever seen it done? > > I used to have money and have eaten at some nice (real - not a Casino) restaurants. I have seen the ritual probably a hundred times and have never seen a bottle declined. From what I have read—never experienced it personally—it depends on why the wine is sent back. If it’s got cork taint, then that’s it, it’s ruined and there’s nothing you can do. (Unless you have plastic wrap, I guess.) But people send back wine all of the time when there’s nothing wrong with it. The tale I’d read, in one of Kevin Zraly’s books, is someone sent back a very old vintage of 'Yquem. The wine was brown, nearly black, lacking sweetness, and the customer freaked. But that’s how they’re supposed to taste when they’re 60 years plus old. Full of nutty richness, length, and depth, and not the pineapple sorbet that you get with young Sauternes. So, the restaurant had '21 d’Yquem by the glass that day. I’d have killed to try it. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2015, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/171 "2015-05-18T02:32:50Z")
Agreed with many who have posted earlier, if I’m ever in the business, I’m making sure that the really expensive wines in my cellar are priced at even hundred figures and the inexpensive ones at even dollar numbers. And training my staff that the only times the words “thousand” and “hundred” are ommitted when those figures are reached is when referring to the calendar year. And as to whether the wine can be worth that much, let’s remember: “what the free market will bear”. This wine costs as much as a used Hyundai, sure. Meanwhile a Bugatti Veyron costs 1.7 million Euro and it has horrible luggage room yet people buy those, too. (Lord, just one year living like the top point zero zero one percent… I’ll stfu the rest of my time in this vale of quarterpounders… 😃 ) ---
**Author:** ![Mnemnosyne](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mnemnosyne/32/3347_2.png) [@Mnemnosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mnemnosyne)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2015, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675/172 "2015-05-18T11:35:54Z")
I completely agree with the customer here. Looking at it from my own point of view: I’ve been to fancy restaurants once in a while. Usually for a special event of some kind. I’m not much of a wine person; I rarely even drink at all, but on special occasions I might drink a glass of wine or something like that. So, I am slightly familiar with wine at fancy restaurants; I’ve seen wine lists that go up to several hundred dollars. Now, this guy said he’s not too familiar with wine. Me, I would have refused to be the one to pick, but a lot of people are less assertive. Also, someone else told him to pick, and it was a business meal. That may have been his boss or someone else it would have been unwise to say no to. So assuming I did pick for some reason, I’d pretty much do exactly what he did - ask for a recommendation, confirm the price, and order. If, like him, I didn’t have my glasses on, I’d see no need to put them on to check the list when the waitress has just told me it’s $37.50. Of course, it would never enter my mind to imagine she meant $3,750. Because until I opened this thread, I had no idea wine could get in the thousands of dollars for anything other than some rare bottle or something that wouldn’t simply be offered in a restaurant. I knew wine could get into the hundreds - not thousands. And in most places I’ve been where the entrees are $50 to $100, wines cost somewhere in the same range as the food, with the most expensive ones rising up to maybe $300 or perhaps $500. I’m not sure I’ve ever even personally seen a $500 price tag on a wine list, but I don’t exactly visit places like that often and look at wine lists. The only way I would have imagined paying thousands of dollars for wine is if someone goes, “And this bottle is one of only seventy-eight left over from the wine cellars of Louis XIV.” because I had no clue commonly sold and drunk wines could go in the thousands. So, for anyone to whom going to a restaurant like this, and ordering wine, is a rare occasion, I can’t even begin to imagine hearing ‘thirty-seven fifty’ and thinking $3,750 rather than $37.50. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-bullshit-on-wine-story/703675.md?page=8)