# I'm calling it: Obama is Jimmy Carter, and he is finished!!!!!!!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 12, 2011, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-it-obama-is-jimmy-carter-and-he-is-finished/596022 "2011-09-12T05:33:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-it-obama-is-jimmy-carter-and-he-is-finished/596022/121 "2011-09-15T06:35:44Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Carter’s special forces missions didn’t work out. > > So far for Obama, the special forces have got the job done. > > \*\*Why do people never remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis when talking about Jimmy Carter’s defeat? \*\* You had this relentless nightly pounding about how ineffective he was being. “Day 412” anyone? Anyone? (I added the bolding for emphasis.) They choose not to remember it because it kills the entire Obama=Carter meme. As I mentioned in [post #33](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14245891&postcount=33) Operation Eagle Claw was the tipping point from which Carter was never able to recover. Of course, there is no interest on the part of the Obama haters to encourage comparison of this event to anything that may have occurred during the Obama presidency. > [@Zebra](#): > > Now not only has Obama showed the world how to negotiate with Pirates but he ordered the mission that killed Osama bin Laden. He didn’t pull back troops when OBL was trapped on a mountain like GWB did. Nope. He fucking got the job done. I think folks like our OP and those who agree with him would prefer to ignore all the facts you mention rather than risk having people remember them too V[COLOR=“BLUE”]I[/COLOR]VI[COLOR=“Magenta”][COLOR=“Magenta”][COLOR=“Magenta”]D[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR]LY. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-it-obama-is-jimmy-carter-and-he-is-finished/596022/122 "2011-09-15T08:46:46Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > Powerful lot of learning they did last November that doesn’t seem to have helped much, not to mention Teddy’s senate seat… You keep mentioning Teddy’s seat. As discussed ad nauseum here and elsewhere, the Democrats lost that seat because Martha Coakley ran the worst campaign this side of Alvin Greene, majorly pissing off the solid Democratic base. Instead, they went for the much less obnoxious Scott Brown (who was trailing pretty heavily initially), who is pretty mild by GOP standards. Hell, I probably would have voted for Brown. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-it-obama-is-jimmy-carter-and-he-is-finished/596022/123 "2011-09-15T18:54:22Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > Now that you got that off your chest you can go back to the 83 threads about Republican candidates. Sorry: I’m not getting your point, nor your reference. Are you saying you subscribe to the OP’s unsupported viewpoint? Just curious, as I’m keeping a list and wondering if I need to add you to it. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-it-obama-is-jimmy-carter-and-he-is-finished/596022/124 "2011-09-16T04:37:47Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Carter’s special forces missions didn’t work out. > > So far for Obama, the special forces have got the job done. > > Why do people never remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis when talking about Jimmy Carter’s defeat? You had this relentless nightly pounding about how ineffective he was being. “Day 412” anyone? Anyone? Carter basically didn’t campaign. He stayed in DC working this problem. Of course some people think the Iranians gave up the hostages minutes after Reagan was elected because 'them Iranians were scert of Ronnie." But it was actually Carter who got them home. The Iranians just held them up to give Carter one last “fuck you!” > Now not only has Obama showed the world how to negotiate with Pirates but he ordered the mission that killed Osama bin Laden. He didn’t pull back troops when OBL was trapped on a mountain like GWB did. Nope. He fucking got the job done. Reagan’s people cut a deal with the Iranians not to release the hostages until the election in America was over. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-it-obama-is-jimmy-carter-and-he-is-finished/596022/125 "2011-09-16T04:57:55Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Why do I bring this up? Because the biggest problem the Republicans have is they refuse to recognize a defeat when it happens. They just get all huffy and explain why that election didn’t count and then ignore it. By doing this, they create the illusion in their heads that they never lose. This means they never learn anything from their defeats. And that means that they never fix any problems and then they lose another election. > > Democrats are getting smarter. They know when they lose (helped along by the Republicans rubbing their face in it) and they look at the defeat. They learn from it and they figure out ways to make sure they do better next time. > [@gonzomax](#): > > Reagan’s people cut a deal with the Iranians not to release the hostages until the election in America was over. Ah yes, the old 1980 “October Surprise” slander. Between that and 2000’s “hanging chads” BS, Little Nemo’s assertion above seems both laughable and perhaps psychologically informative. (Now wait for a chorus of “no it isn’t! Reagan and GWB _really did_ steal the elections!”) ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-it-obama-is-jimmy-carter-and-he-is-finished/596022/126 "2011-09-16T05:13:44Z")
Ok **pkbites** , since you’re so sure of your prediction - how much you wanna bet? I’m dead serious if you want to put a gentleman’s wager on it. My stance: Obama will win his second term in 2012 (likely by a comfortable margin). ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-it-obama-is-jimmy-carter-and-he-is-finished/596022/127 "2011-09-16T05:47:39Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Ok **pkbites** , since you’re so sure of your prediction - how much you wanna bet? I’m dead serious if you want to put a gentleman’s wager on it. My stance: Obama will win his second term in 2012 (likely by a comfortable margin). I might take that bet. Naturally, since you have the incumbent, I’ll need odds. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-it-obama-is-jimmy-carter-and-he-is-finished/596022/128 "2011-09-16T06:00:23Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I might take that bet. Naturally, since you have the incumbent, I’ll need odds. Naturally. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-it-obama-is-jimmy-carter-and-he-is-finished/596022/129 "2011-09-16T06:06:00Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Ah yes, the old 1980 “October Surprise” slander. Between that and 2000’s “hanging chads” BS, Little Nemo’s assertion above seems both laughable and perhaps psychologically informative. You’re deducing something psychologically informative about me because of something gonzomax posted? (Now wait for a chorus of “No, it’s real! These aren’t just delusions in my mind!”) ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-it-obama-is-jimmy-carter-and-he-is-finished/596022/130 "2011-09-16T06:16:38Z")
You and others have posted stuff lately to the effect of “Unlike our foes, we Democrats are open minded, tolerant of ideological non-conformity and accept our defeats with grace,” which (as gonzomax and others demonstrate) is laughable on its face and may say something about y’all’s own level of introspection. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-it-obama-is-jimmy-carter-and-he-is-finished/596022/131 "2011-09-16T06:51:15Z")
I don’t know why I’d say “we Democrats” when I’m a Republican. I’d have thought the fact that I’ve been posting suggestions on what the Republicans need to do to win next year’s election might have been a hint. But I guess that was too subtle. What I’ve been saying is that the Democrats try to learn from their mistakes while too many Republicans refuse to admit they ever make a mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-it-obama-is-jimmy-carter-and-he-is-finished/596022/132 "2011-09-16T06:55:08Z")
OK, sorry about that. But I’m still unpersuaded that Democrats are more flexible than Republicans in this regard – again, I’ve never heard Republicans go on about how Clinton or Obama stole the election. ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-it-obama-is-jimmy-carter-and-he-is-finished/596022/133 "2011-09-16T07:20:40Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > OK, sorry about that. But I’m still unpersuaded that Democrats are more flexible than Republicans in this regard – again, I’ve never heard Republicans go on about how Clinton or Obama stole the election. Mainly because those elections weren’t too close. Close elections tend to bring out the conspiracy theorists of the losing side - I bet you’ll find some folks on this very board who doubt the results of 1960. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-it-obama-is-jimmy-carter-and-he-is-finished/596022/134 "2011-09-16T08:41:33Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > OK, sorry about that. But I’m still unpersuaded that Democrats are more flexible than Republicans in this regard – again, I’ve never heard Republicans go on about how Clinton or Obama stole the election. Try asking them about Al Franken sometime. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-it-obama-is-jimmy-carter-and-he-is-finished/596022/135 "2011-09-16T14:51:00Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I might take that bet. Naturally, since you have the incumbent, I’ll need odds. Odds? Hah, no. The OP came in here confidently proclaiming what a sure thing it is that he will lose. Although I know you’re not the OP, one doesn’t run their mouth like that and then expect favorable odds. I’m trying to get him to put his money where his mouth is. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-it-obama-is-jimmy-carter-and-he-is-finished/596022/136 "2011-09-16T16:49:26Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > OK, sorry about that. But I’m still unpersuaded that Democrats are more flexible than Republicans in this regard – again, I’ve never heard Republicans go on about how Clinton or Obama stole the election. My point was that a lot of Republicans say that these elections somehow aren’t reflective of the general electorate. I’ve seen a lot of Republicans claim that the reason why McCain lost was because he wasn’t conservative enough. Which is a ridiculous claim - McCain lost to Obama, which is evidence McCain lost because he wasn’t liberal enough. Or they’ll say the 1976 election wasn’t normal because it was right after Nixon resigned. And the 1992 election wasn’t normal because Perot ran. And the 1996 election wasn’t normal because Clinton was an incumbent. And the fact that more people voted for Gore in 2000 doesn’t matter because Bush won the electoral vote. The mindset is that the voters are somehow naturally supposed to be Republicans and any time they vote for a Democrat it’s an aberration. And because it’s an aberration, it can be ignored. But it happens too often to be considered just an aberration. Republicans need to recognize that people vote for Democrats. It’s not enough to say “We’ll run a Republican candidate and their candidate is a Democrat, so we’ll win.” But that’s the kind of complacency I’m seeing here. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-it-obama-is-jimmy-carter-and-he-is-finished/596022/137 "2011-09-16T17:28:13Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I might take that bet. Naturally, since you have the incumbent, I’ll need odds. What odds would you haven given Carter? 'Cause per the OP, Obama’s should be the same. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-it-obama-is-jimmy-carter-and-he-is-finished/596022/138 "2011-09-16T18:46:11Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > My point was that a lot of Republicans say that these elections somehow aren’t reflective of the general electorate. I’ve seen a lot of Republicans claim that the reason why McCain lost was because he wasn’t conservative enough. Which is a ridiculous claim - McCain lost to Obama, which is evidence McCain lost because he wasn’t liberal enough. Actually, the “McCain lost because he wasn’t conservative enough” claim isn’t so much based on the unlikely scenario of conservative Republican voters choosing Obama but rather upon the fact that they were so discouraged with the choice presented, they stayed home instead. To support this, they’ll point to the fact that voter turnout in 2008 was not much greater than turnout in 2004 despite the influx of new voters Obama brought to the polls. Anyway, as stated previously, Obama is presently in a better position than Carter because he doesn’t have a foreign policy debacle like the Iran Hostage Crisis and the failed hostage rescue. The OP is basically premature. It’s important to remember that in 1980, momentum did not break clearly for Reagan and the GOP until less than a week before the election due to Carter’s poor debate performance. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-it-obama-is-jimmy-carter-and-he-is-finished/596022/139 "2011-09-16T18:59:00Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Ok **pkbites** , since you’re so sure of your prediction - how much you wanna bet? I’m dead serious if you want to put a gentleman’s wager on it. My stance: Obama will win his second term in 2012 (likely by a comfortable margin). **Chessic Sense** may also take a bet here (see post #66): [I'll bet Obama gets reelected - Politics & Elections - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=598342) ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-it-obama-is-jimmy-carter-and-he-is-finished/596022/140 "2011-09-17T00:43:34Z")
> [@gatorslap](#): > > Peace between Israel and Egypt, SALT II, deregulating the airline industry, legalizing home brewing of beer – these are not positive accomplishments? I concede the point there [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-it-obama-is-jimmy-carter-and-he-is-finished/596022.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-it-obama-is-jimmy-carter-and-he-is-finished/596022.md?page=8)