# I'm calling you a liar, Sir/Madam. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 22, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174 "2015-06-22T20:23:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![emcee2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emcee2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emcee2k)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/221 "2015-06-25T09:32:49Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > While you of course are fully in touch with the Kardashians and arts and science and NASA space probes. Not only that, but if we were to ask you for detail about NASA space probes, you would not once have to use the word “vaguely”. > > Or perhaps you are “out of touch” with arts and science and NASA space probes, but since you don’t regard that as being _meaningfully_ “out of touch” you’re OK with being as you are. I’m not really sure what point you’re making here. Anyway, I know plenty about space probes and a little about Kardashians. These two facts are unrelated. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/222 "2015-06-25T10:38:52Z")
> [@emcee2k](#): > > Anyway, I know plenty about space probes and a little about Kardashians. These two facts are unrelated. Not necessarily, one can’t know about everything and it just isn’t possible to read or view stuff about the Kardashians and about space probes at the same time, and there are only so many waking minutes in the day. A choice is being made. My point primarily is that you use “out of touch” as if being out of touch with trash culture is a bad thing, which contains an inherent assumption with which many would disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/223 "2015-06-25T11:16:16Z")
> [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](#): > > I think I might have an extraordinary memory and ability to absorb information without trying. So, I understand why some people are not aware of things. Yet I do tend to side with the OP, especially when people cop to knowing some of the more obscure stuff about people yet pretend to know nothing else. Well let me give you an example. I know that Avril Lavigne is/was married to Derek Wibbly. I don’t know either of their work but I know they are both musicians and they were married, that is it. The only reason I know is because I listen to “The Bugle” podcast and that fact stuck in my brain. However, If you tried to have a pop-culture discussion with me about either of those two then I’d severely disappoint you…I know one, single, half-remembered “fact” Unless it is sandwiched into something that does catch my attention, the moment a subject ranges outside of my spheres of interest, I’ll switch off or switch over. I suspect the basis of other people’s pop-culture “knowledge” consists of similar stand-alone, partial semi-facts or overheard snippets. It doesn’t constitute knowledge in any real sense. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/224 "2015-06-25T11:18:24Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > My point primarily is that you use “out of touch” as if being out of touch with \*\*trash culture \*\*is a bad thing, which contains an **inherent assumption** with which many would disagree. oooo! careful **Princhester** , bias is showing 🙂 Thing is of course, we all like a bit of trash culture now and again so I personally don’t see that term as necessarily a pejorative. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/225 "2015-06-25T12:28:42Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Well, no. You’ve been busy moving the goal posts from what you said in your OP. You said in the OP that _everybody_ (who wasn’t living in a cave) must know “exactly” who the Kardashians are, and have more than a vague notion about them; and also must listen to Taylor Swift. In fact, as you say, 99% of the people posting in this thread _do_ have at least a vague idea of who they are, and most people aren’t denying that. I believe I’ve made my point! 😛😃 ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/226 "2015-06-25T12:53:56Z")
> [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > The Kardashians were on NPR? I didn’t even think they could spell NPR. Well played, sir. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/227 "2015-06-25T13:56:17Z")
> [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](#): > > I think I might have an extraordinary memory and ability to absorb information without trying. So, I understand why some people are not aware of things. Yet I do tend to side with the OP, especially when people cop to knowing some of the more obscure stuff about people yet pretend to know nothing else. > > Did everyone who hasn’t heard about The Kardashians also completely avoid all media surrounding that football player guy from the movies and car rental commercials who was tried for the murder of some chick and a waiter? If so congratulations. I would never forget Robert Kardashian, though I’m sure I was less exposed to him in my entire life than the duration of Kim’s sex tape. > > I have never seen the Kardashians show. I think I first heard of Kim in some online article about Paris Hilton or a picture of her and Paris Hilton. Or maybe it was from dating Nick Cannon when he was on TV a lot and actually had a hit single and headlined a movie. So, I guess to get there I have to admit to reading some gossipy of web sites. Or I had a tv in 2003. Or perhaps I was a little intrigued by celebrity sex or I have consumed porn at some point my life. I’m sure she was always introduced as the daughter of Robert kardashian and step daughter of Bruce Jenner. After Paris Hilton’s profile increased due to her porno, Kim Kardashian had a porno “leak.” > > Kim Kardashian is famous for “having a big ass and a sex tape.” I think I am quoting Joel McHale from the Soup (show that continued after the run of Greg Kinnear, Hal Sparks, John Henson, and Aisha Tyler did “Talk Soup”) there. That’s the most succinct way to describe her. > > She made the sex tape with a singer/actor that a lot of people also don’t know or pretend not to know. Some will just refer to him as Brandy’s (if you don’t know who anyone is, you might know who brandy is either) brother, Ray J. I knew he was because he starred on network tv shows. Since I didn’t have cable or internet around 1993 but I watched TV every night, I remember him on The Sinbad Show. It was short-lived, but it did last an entire season, so it was lived enough to be aware of. Then Ray J was on Moesha for 5 years. I never watched that show at all, but I was aware of it and could probably name a half dozen regular or semi-regular actors. So then he did a sex tape with Paris Hilton’s friend and daughter of OJ Simpsons lawyer/friend. Like all celebrity male sextape stars (except for Fred Durst) his penis size was exaggerated. T-Pain complimented him on his “meat.” Kim Kardashian, has a big ass and did a porno with a black celebrity. it made a lot of money for all involved, including Vivid. I think it may have broken Paris Hilton’s record. Yes, in the age of free porn a bunch of people paiud 50 bucks or whatever it was to see this big-asses friend of Paris Hilton fuck and suck Moesha’s little brother. > > Then Kim dated Reggie Bush and married Kris Humphries, both male athletes who are known to anyone who follow major US professional sports even if they aren’t all-stars. Many kardashian fans even said that Humphries was using Kim for money and fame, even though he was making around $8 million a year when they married. I have also recently read that sister Khloe needs to drop Lamar Odom for a guy with money, despite the fast he made over $100 million by his 30th birthday. I also am aware their other sister is actually married to some guy named Lord Dick or something, and it’s somewhat notable that he is white and the relationship has lasted more than 72 days and produced multiple children. i think Lord Dick has a reputation as a boozer and philanderer, though. > > Taylor Swift, I saw her perform on the jay Leno Tonight Show when she was a teenager with a guitar. She sang a song called “Tim McGraw.” I noticed it because she was young and because of the name, just sort of things that stick out. I have never intentionally listened to her since. However, from just being alive and being a consumer and reader of music, regular news, and shopping at target and Papa Johns, it has been impossible to not notice her millions of records being sold, her CDs being massively marketed, being asked if I want to order her CD with a pizza, etc. I also am aware she has supposedly dated many famous guys (almost all ones with gay rumors, fwiw) and has written songs about them. I have never heard of any of them. I also heard she got really made at bob lefsetz and even wrote a song about him. From what I can tell, she hasn’t really been “country” since her first album or 2, and hasn’t even been pop/crossover country for close to 5 years (or more?) or 2-3 album cycles. I think a young girl with a guitar singing about Tim McGraw 10 years ago was country, but she is a pop artist now with no pretenses other than being a top pop artist played on top 40/pop and selling millions of albums. I’ve never intentionally listened to Adele, but I would find it impossible not to know who she is for the same reasons (though Adele does get play on alternative rock radio stations for some reason, maybe the same reason they play Amy Winehouse and The Beastie boys). > > Oh yeah, I heard the song “We are Never Ever Ever (ever, ever, ever?) getting back together” at the pool last summer. I probably wouldn’t have known the difference between a Kelly Clarkson or somebody else singing it, but I knew it was Taylor Swift because I had heard so much about the song and recognized the title without ever having heard it. I read this and for the next 20 minutes to a half an hour I would be able to recall enough to answer questions about it. After that I can’t guarantee anything. After 48 hours I will not recall any of it. It just isn’t important enough to retain. I know I’ve heard several Taylor Swift songs. She is one of my 9 yo daughter’s favorite singers. I couldn’t name any of the songs even though I’ve asked my daughter several times “Who sings that?” and “What is that song called?”. She loves me despite my mental failings. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/228 "2015-06-25T16:37:39Z")
> [@Cyros](#): > > I read this and for the next 20 minutes to a half an hour I would be able to recall enough to answer questions about it. After that I can’t guarantee anything. After 48 hours I will not recall any of it. It just isn’t important enough to retain. > > I know I’ve heard several Taylor Swift songs. She is one of my 9 yo daughter’s favorite singers. I couldn’t name any of the songs even though I’ve asked my daughter several times “Who sings that?” and “What is that song called?”. She loves me despite my mental failings. It isn’t just you. I’m very conscious of the fact that as I started to read those paragraphs I zoned out and skipped over it all. So even though I’ve been presented with facts about these people and indeed I can say I’ve “read” about them, I know I won’t retain a single fact. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/229 "2015-06-25T19:39:04Z")
> [@Cyros](#): > > I read this and for the next 20 minutes to a half an hour I would be able to recall enough to answer questions about it. After that I can’t guarantee anything. After 48 hours I will not recall any of it. It just isn’t important enough to retain. > > I know I’ve heard several Taylor Swift songs. She is one of my 9 yo daughter’s favorite singers. I couldn’t name any of the songs even though I’ve asked my daughter several times “Who sings that?” and “What is that song called?”. She loves me despite my mental failings. I’m not disagreeing with you. I guess my point about myself is that I find many things impossible not to retain, I am not selective about it. I don’t make a decision about what is important. I retain important and trivial information. I have exactly one friend and I’ve met exactly 2 others (a former GF and co-worker from a decade ago) the same way. We could reference just about anything from our lifetimes (and some before) from the news or pop culture and the other(s) would get it. We were sincerely mystified when others wouldn’t. I am not in anyway saying this makes me talented/skilled or anything else “good” because I retain unimportant information. I just do. So, having only experienced how my brain works, it’s what I’m used to. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/230 "2015-06-25T19:40:47Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > It isn’t just you. I’m very conscious of the fact that as I started to read those paragraphs I zoned out and skipped over it all. So even though I’ve been presented with facts about these people and indeed I can say I’ve “read” about them, I know I won’t retain a single fact. And my post was pretty much a long, rambling stream of my memory of these people and not presented as some sort of coherent attempt to educate anyone about anything. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/231 "2015-06-25T19:46:24Z")
I just learned from an article (though I am skeptical of anything pandering political entertainers say) that Sean Hannity, who was born in 1961 and was raised in and lived most of his adult life in New York City, is not familiar with Hip-Hop or Prince. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/232 "2015-06-25T19:55:22Z")
> [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](#): > > I just learned from an article (though I am skeptical of anything pandering political entertainers say) that Sean Hannity, who was born in 1961 and was raised in and lived most of his adult life in New York City, is not familiar with Hip-Hop or Prince. Depends on what he means by “familiar with” I guess. I was also born in 1961 and have lived in NYC. I know what Hip-Hop is (but don’t ask me to tell you how it’s different than rap or punk) and I know who Prince is (but don’t ask me to name a song other than _Purple Rain_.) ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/233 "2015-06-25T20:02:39Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Depends on what he means by “familiar with” I guess. I was also born in 1961 and have lived in NYC. I know what Hip-Hop is (but don’t ask me to tell you how it’s different than rap or punk) and I know who Prince is (but don’t ask me to name a song other than _Purple Rain_.) This is a nice point, too. I listen to a lot of music - pop, rock, and altrock, mainly. I couldn’t really tell you why some things are called altrock. Am I supposed to? Do I care? I know what I like, is what matters to me. I remember my coworkers making fun of me once because ten years after the whole thing went down, I wasn’t able to identify Tonya Harding from a picture. I knew the gist of the story, but I don’t follow sports at all, and I’d hardly ever seen her. I don’t read gossipy web sites. I actively shut down news about KK because I just don’t care. And I guess that’s the crux of it. Sure, I know a few things. But I just don’t care. It’s not that I think I am better than you (maybe I am). It’s just that my interests lie elsewhere! ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/234 "2015-06-25T20:40:12Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Depends on what he means by “familiar with” I guess. I was also born in 1961 and have lived in NYC. I know what Hip-Hop is (but don’t ask me to tell you how it’s different than rap or punk) and I know who Prince is (but don’t ask me to name a song other than _Purple Rain_.) Fair enough. And “familiar with” were my words. I would say in my experience there’s not even that much overlap of Prince and Hip-Hop fans- Prince fans trending older and whiter. So most people I know ages 30-60 or so are fans of or aware of one or the other. Prince songs being another thing I’ve found unavoidable and hip-hop more a matter of what I’ve sought out. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/235 "2015-06-25T20:41:11Z")
As it happens, I was able to answer a crossword puzzle question for my mother this morning. “One of the Spice Girls” \_ \_ \_ \_ Now what the exactly fuck is that doing in my memory? Still, if someone comes up to me at work and wants to discuss the Spice Girls, I’ll still say, “Never heard of 'em,” and duck away. I was also able to answer the aunt’s name in the Nancy comic strip. Tell me that, **Quicksilver** , without looking! ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/236 "2015-06-25T20:54:31Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Well let me give you an example. I know that Avril Lavigne is/was married to Derek Wibbly. I don’t know either of their work but I know they are both musicians and they were married, that is it. The only reason I know is because I listen to “The Bugle” podcast and that fact stuck in my brain. However, If you tried to have a pop-culture discussion with me about either of those two then I’d severely disappoint you…I know one, single, half-remembered “fact” > > Unless it is sandwiched into something that does catch my attention, the moment a subject ranges outside of my spheres of interest, I’ll switch off or switch over. I suspect the basis of other people’s pop-culture “knowledge” consists of similar stand-alone, partial semi-facts or overheard snippets. It doesn’t constitute knowledge in any real sense. That makes sense. Maybe I don’t have the Switch or I’m too lazy to turn it on. Maybe some people make an effort I don’t (people say they don’t know things because they don’t care and make no effort, but neither do I) and/or feel that absorbing unwanted information crowds out more useful information. I don’t know. My daughter’s watching a show on the Disney Channel right now. I casually notice the dad is played by Kadeem Hardison, who was “DeWayne Wayne” on “A Different World.” I barely watched the show. I remember the pilot with Marissa Tomei and the racist epithet episode with Dean Cain and the cop who was on Saved by The Bell. It takes me no effort to remember these things and I just casually assume most people around my age or who watched the Cosby Show (a lot of people) and/or watched tv in the late 80s would know that. Then my mind wanders to Lisa Bonet, Mickey Rourke, etc. That’s just the way it goes. I make no effort to follow it or fight it, and I continue to take care of my daily work and family obligations and other things in the process. Recently a small-time actor who was in the Burbs (which wasn’t that much of a hit, IIRC) died. He was in some other movies, but I don’t think he had done much since the 80s and was a character-actor. Yet so many people acted like he was a celebrity. I didn’t read any discussion threads about him. So I don’t know if a bunch of people went around saying “Who is this guy?” and a bunch of others said " Come on, you have to know who he was, weren’t you alive when Spaceballs and The Burbs came out?"… FWIW, I did recognize his name and face and I just assumed a lot of other people did, but I made no effort to recall that information or further research his life. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/237 "2015-06-26T12:29:40Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Unless you have been living in a cave for the past 10 years, without electricity, without internet access, without human contact of any kind, you fucking well know exactly who the Kardashians are A hermitical existence appears ever more desirable. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/238 "2015-06-26T12:53:16Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > oooo! careful **Princhester** , bias is showing 🙂 > > Thing is of course, we all like a bit of trash culture now and again so I personally don’t see that term as necessarily a pejorative. I don’t have any need to be careful, I undoubtedly have my biases when it comes to my taste in entertainment etc. My point is precisely that there is no singular body of information that makes one “in touch”. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/239 "2015-06-26T13:11:26Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > That’s right. A liar. > > Do not for a second try to tell me that you don’t know who Kim Kardashian is or pretend that you only have some vague notion about the Kardashians in general. > > Unless you have been living in a cave for the past 10 years, without electricity, without internet access, without human contact of any kind, you fucking well know exactly who the Kardashians are and you’re not a better person by pretending you don’t. Honestly I really only have a vague idea of who the Kardashians are. I know Kim Kardashian was in a sex tape and she has sisters whose names also start with K. I do not for an instant pretend it makes me a better person. Ignorance is not an advantage. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/240 "2015-06-26T13:24:55Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I don’t have any need to be careful, I undoubtedly have my biases when it comes to my taste in entertainment etc. My point is precisely that there is no singular body of information that makes one “in touch”. Oh I know and agree. One man’s trash is another man’s treasure and all that. But this is the Straight Dope and in that spirit I had to point out your apparent bias, deserved or not…better I do than someone who doesn’t actually agree with you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174.md?page=13)