# I'm calling you a liar, Sir/Madam. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 22, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174 "2015-06-22T20:23:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/281 "2015-06-30T19:24:25Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I give up. Everyone here has no idea who the Kardashians are. Except that they read about it here. And saw them in a magazine at the doctor’s office. And, maybe saw one of them on the cover a magazine with her husband. And once saw a commercial about some reality show that they are on. I guess maybe they’re famous for being famous. > > But, they have no idea who they are. > > (you guys totally know who they are! You’re just like the rest of us! One of us! One of us!) If that makes you feel less guilty about you hobby I say run with it…but you are just deluding yourself. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/282 "2015-06-30T19:32:19Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Was it on the cover of Vogue? Was it mentioned on the Daily Show or Colbert or SNL? Was it featured on Today? Was it or Reddit? Yahoo? Click bait linked by every mother lovin’ site aggregator and message board? Is it a punch line to pretty much every joke? Perhaps my boss and the muffins need better publicists? Ok, so. You pay attention to Vogue’s covers? Most people don’t. The TV shows you mention? I don’t watch them or rather their French equivalent. I’m not on reddit. So we’re left with Yahoo and bait links. Why would you assume that I pay attention to Yahoo news items that don’t interest me about people I know nothing about to begin with? Even worst with bait links. I’m pretty sure you’re ignoring daily tons of Yahoo news items and bait links about topics that don’t interest you and you’re completely ignorant about. How can it be so hard to understand that you need to be actually exposed to these things, to have a modicum of interest about them, to actively seek them in order to have the knowledge you’re for some reason assuming everybody has? Frankly, at this point it sounds like people who accuse others of being elitists who just _pretend_ to be able to tell apart two wines, or to enjoy significantly more the food served in an expensive restaurant than a random burger, or to really like black and white movies, or to be unaware of the last results of whatever major sport team, or to not have heard of the last trendy music band and so on. It’s really the same idea : I can’t tell apart the wines, I find black and white movies boring, I’m exposed constantly to sport event results, my friends all listen to this band, so you can’t possibly be different, be exposed to different things, have different tastes. You have to be a snobbish liar. And weirdly, nobody on this board is going to assume that for instance someone stating they don’t know the first thing about politics, don’t pay attention to politics-related news items, aren’t interested in politics and as result don’t know, say, who their representant is, are liars. Somehow, everybody is willing to believe you can navigate your life in complete ignorance of politics and politicians, which are similarly all over the news, but that you can’t possibly do the same wrt fucking TV celebrities. Once again : I’m not exposed to informations about TV celebrities, or if I am briefly I don’t pay attention to them, and I’ve zero interest in TV celebrities, so I don’t look up for such informations either, and as a result I don’t know the first thing about TV celebrities. If you are firmly decided not to believe me, then so be it, but you’re choosing to be obtuse, and to refuse to believe that other people’s experiences could be different from yours. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/283 "2015-06-30T19:41:39Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > The point is that for those of us who consider this type of thing **trite and meaningless** find it easy to ignore and forget. FYI, I can’t remember the last time I watched Today, was on Reddit or used Yahoo news. > > Not everyone in the world is **obsessed with pop culture**. I am an extrovert and have no problems having conversations with all sorts of people without **resorting to conversations about TV**. I also run an ad-blocker so I don’t see click bait ads. > > Maybe I am just lucky enough to live in an area where talk shows and click bait are not the **sole glue** between individuals. > > I am quite happy to be **in this world** , where I can talk to people about their lives and not be\*\* limited to what random entertainment\*\* we use to pass the time. > > … > > If that makes you\*\* feel less guilty about you hobby\*\* I say run with it…but you are just deluding yourself. I vote **rat avatar** to be not only the winner but the most evolved human being to ever visit this thread. Can I get a show of hands of those in favour? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/284 "2015-06-30T19:48:57Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > You and Clairobscur seem to be having an entirely different discussion than the one everyone else in this thread is having. > > No, I don’t expect someone living in France, Spain, or Sweden to know the subjects of celebrity rags in the United States. I think the OP could probably stipulate to that. If I can live my life ignoring the subjects of celebrity rags in France, an American can most certainly similarly ignore the subjects of celebrity rags in the USA. I’m having the exact same discussion as the OP. You can put in my field of view as many covers of people’s magazines as you want, I’m not going to remember the story mentioned on these covers if I don’t pay attention to them. Whether I’m French or American doesn’t change a thing. I _do not read_ people’s magazines covers. I _do not click_ on bait links about celebrities. I _do not watch_ TV shows about celebrities. As a result , _I can’t know_ about these celebrities, regardless how much you think I should. How can this concept be difficult to understand? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/285 "2015-06-30T19:53:24Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I’m pretty sure you’re ignoring daily tons of Yahoo news items and bait links about topics that don’t interest you and you’re completely ignorant about. I wish I was completely ignorant about the Kardashians. So far, I’ve not found a way. > [@clairobscur](#): > > How can it be so hard to understand that you need to be actually exposed to these things, to have a modicum of interest about them, to actively seek them in order to have the knowledge you’re for some reason assuming everybody has? As mentioned earlier, the French are off the hook on this one. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/286 "2015-06-30T20:16:38Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I vote **rat avatar** to be not only the winner but the most evolved human being to ever visit this thread. > > Can I get a show of hands of those in favour? Must I remind you that you pitted ME? Why do you need universal expectance of your guilty pleasures? Obviously you are not proud of your interest in the area or you wouldn’t be publicly looking for a pat on a back. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/287 "2015-06-30T20:23:53Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > As mentioned earlier, the French are off the hook on this one. That’s just a way of avoiding my objections. There’s no difference between a Frenchman not knowing about French celebrities and an American not knowing about American celebrities. It’s perfectly possible to live your life without knowing the first thing about some specific “famous” person. that you couldn’t manage to do so wrt the Khardasian doesn’t mean that everybody else has the same experience. American people who know nothing at all about them might be a small minority, but it’s stupid to assume they don’t exist. And the evidences proposed to show that they can’t ignore them are completely unconvincing. Like your magazine covers example. Maybe you’re reading every single magazine cover that appears in your field of view, but most people certainly don’t. And accumulating examples of places where you can find infos about the Khardasians doesn’t mean anything. Some people won’t visit the websites you visit, won’t watch the shows you watch, won’t read the magazines you read, won’t click on the bait links you click on. And one of the reasons why they won’t do any of these things is because they have zero interest in them. And even if they randomly read/heard something about such or such celebrity, it’s probably going to be forgotten by the next day, because again _it’s not something that interest them_. If you don’t care about baseball, you’re not going to remember who won such or such competition even if someone told it to you once, or if the results appeared on such and such magazine you flipped through. And regardless how many people will tell you that you can’t possibly ignore which team won this competition whose result has been plastered _everywhere_ (according to them) and that _everybody_ knows about (according to them), you still won’t know the first thing about baseball results. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/288 "2015-06-30T20:27:55Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > You can put in my field of view as many covers of people’s magazines as you want, I’m not going to remember the story mentioned on these covers if I don’t pay attention to them. Whether I’m French or American doesn’t change a thing. I _do not read_ people’s magazines covers. I _do not click_ on bait links about celebrities. I _do not watch_ TV shows about celebrities. As a result , _I can’t know_ about these celebrities, regardless how much you think I should. How can this concept be difficult to understand? Because I also don’t read celebrity magazines, click on click bait, watch TV shows about celebrities. And yet, I do know who the Kardashians are. Thus, your statement that “I can’t know about these celebrities” is demonstrably false. Also, your statement that: > [@clairobscur](#): > > For the record, I have a vague idea about who the Khardasians are (an extended family with an often despised TV show of their own in the USA) because they’re often mentioned (or rather, mocked) on this board that I read regularly. seems to indicate that you do, in fact, have knowledge of the Kardashians that is on par with my own. So, you can (and you do) know who they are. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/289 "2015-06-30T20:47:30Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > seems to indicate that you do, in fact, have knowledge of the Kardashians that is on par with my own. So, you can (and you do) know who they are. Indeed. But I don’t know anything about most celebrities, including many that I’m in theory much more likely to have informations about (French ones). Since I know for a fact that I know nothing about even the most famous TV celebrities that “everybody know” here, it would be absurd for me to assume that an American couldn’t not know about some of the most famous American TV celebrities. Which leads me to believe, unless the USA has some peculiarities I’m not aware of, like a mandatory public reading of people’s magazines before starting every day of school or work, that you’re wrong. And that you’re wrong isn’t an opinion. It’s a fact. I know with absolute certainty (unless, again, there’s something absolutely peculiar about the USA and the Khardasian specifically, for instance that they get has much reverence in the US as the Kims in North Korea) that people can not know about a very famous TV celebrity because I know with absolute certainty that I don’t know anything about most very famous TV celebrities. You can believe that I’m lying, but there’s absolutely no way you can convince me that you aren’t wrong. I _know_ you are. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/290 "2015-06-30T20:52:43Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Must I remind you that you pitted ME? Not really. I pitted [Andros](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18459274&postcount=23) and a guy that works with me whose conversation I overheard at the cooler. > [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Why do you need universal expectance of your guilty pleasures? > > Obviously you are not proud of your interest in the area or you wouldn’t be publicly looking for a pat on a back. You are wrong. I am indifferent about my awareness in the area. However, it is you who deserves a pat on the back for having the ability, nay the strength of mind, to rise above it all. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/291 "2015-06-30T20:58:39Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Not really. I pitted [Andros](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18459274&postcount=23) and a guy that works with me whose conversation I overheard at the cooler. > > You are wrong. I am indifferent about my awareness in the area. However, it is you who deserves a pat on the back for having the ability, nay the strength of mind, to rise above it all. 100% BS, you called me a liar right here. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > That’s right. A liar. > > Do not for a second try to tell me that you don’t know who Kim Kardashian is or pretend that you only have some vague notion about the Kardashians in general. > > Unless you have been living in a cave for the past 10 years, without electricity, without internet access, without human contact of any kind, you fucking well know exactly who the Kardashians are and you’re not a better person by pretending you don’t. > > And while we’re at it, admit that you listen to Taylor Swift when you’re alone in your car. And a troglodyte. The fact I think something is trite is why I don’t pay attention to it. The fact you think that I think I am better because you have other interests does not indicate I think you should share my beliefs. But it does show that you need some serious help with self esteem, not everyone has to like what you do. Yet you resort to name calling and accusations of untruthfulness. The least you could step up and accept the fact you do so but I doubt you will. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/292 "2015-06-30T22:47:45Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Is there anyone in this thread at this point who has really said they have absolutely no idea about them? Yes, actually, and that post on page 1 is the reason I joined the thread to emphasize the already-pointed-out OJ Trial connection: > [@Oukile](#): > > Never heard or read the names “Kardashian” or “Taylor Swift” until I opened this post. > > Just without TV. Did I miss something? > [@clairobscur](#): > > Sorry for insisting about this, but I suspect that watching TV or not is what makes most of the difference. I suspect that people watching TV very regularly (most of the population) don’t realize that non watchers have a very different “information base”. Most of my exposure to the ladies in question is from the internet, not tv. Not a lot of Kardashian news during commercial breaks for Better Call Saul. ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/293 "2015-06-30T23:41:38Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Kim Kardashian: > > - is good-looking > - made a sex tape > - married a bloke (probably more than one) > - has a US reality show > > Taylor Swift: > > - is a pop star > > I have never heard anything by Taylor Swift (mind you, the last record I bought was ‘Who are you’ by the Who in 1978.) > > I don’t have a mobile phone and have never used social media. > > (Get off my lawn!) Oh man, you have missed _so_ much good music! ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/294 "2015-07-01T11:28:13Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > The fact I think something is trite is why I don’t pay attention to it. The fact you think that I think I am better because you have other interests does not indicate I think you should share my beliefs. I think a couple more ‘I think that you think that I think’ will clear the above right up. > [@rat\_avatar](#): > > But it does show that you need some serious help with self esteem, not everyone has to like what you do. Yet you resort to name calling and accusations of untruthfulness. > > The least you could step up and accept the fact you do so but I doubt you will. Climb down off that high horse before you hurt yourself. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/295 "2015-07-01T11:35:01Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > 100% BS, you called me a liar right here. > > And a troglodyte. The thing about the internts, almost never is anyone ever speaking directly to you. Mostly it’s just people shouting into the void. Being an expert in avoiding trite things, I probably shouldn’t have to explain it to you. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/296 "2015-07-02T02:25:12Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I can’t imagine any American over the age of 35 not being familiar with the OJ Simpson trial. Specifically, Marcia Clark, Robert Kardashian, Judge Lance Ito, and the biggest one of all: Johnnie Cochran. (“If the glove doesn’t fit, you must acquit!”) If you are over 35 and do not recognize those names, shame on you. You are willfully ignorant of massive news events. > [@Acsenray](#): > > Actually, Robert Kardashian is the one name I _don’t_ remember from the trial. The lawyers I recall defending O.J. Simpson are Robert Shapiro, Johnnie Cochran, F. Lee Bailey, and Alan Dershowitz. Kardashian must not have made much of an impression on me. Me too. I’m an American in his late 50s, and I recognize all those names except Kardashian. Again, I was here in Bangkok during the whole OJ thing, and it just wasn’t publicized very much here. But I did catch enough news to know those other names but not Kardashian. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/297 "2015-07-02T04:16:57Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I can’t imagine any American over the age of 35 not being familiar with the OJ Simpson trial. Specifically, Marcia Clark, Robert Kardashian, Judge Lance Ito, and the biggest one of all: Johnnie Cochran. (“If the glove doesn’t fit, you must acquit!”) If you are over 35 and do not recognize those names, shame on you. You are willfully ignorant of massive news events. The only names I remember today from the OJ trial are OJ (duh), Kato (Green Hornet connection, so it stuck), and Cochrane (because a law firm using his name has TV ads here and the Seinfeld parody). Clark and Ito hadn’t been in my mind at all, but when mentioned in connection to the trial, I remember them. I’m pretty sure one of OJ’s victims, his wife, was named Nicole. I’m drawing a complete blank on the other. When the trial was on daily, no matter what one was watching, I knew more, though Kardashian’s name was, at best, only in the background. I wasn’t following the trial; I was actively avoiding it. But every show discussed it. Hell, I think they even recut a _Gilligan’s Island_ episode to reference that abomination. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174/298 "2015-07-02T13:08:19Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Actually, Robert Kardashian is the one name I _don’t_ remember from the trial. The lawyers I recall defending O.J. Simpson are Robert Shapiro, Johnnie Cochran, F. Lee Bailey, and Alan Dershowitz. Kardashian must not have made much of an impression on me. Almost the same here, although F. Lee Bailey is another one I wouldn’t have been able to recognize by name. Mainly, I remember Cochran and Ito from that trial, and Marcia Clark. Robert Kardashian I only “remember” retroactively, via Kim & crew’s fame, but I don’t really remember him at all from the trial. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-calling-you-a-liar-sir-madam/723174.md?page=14)