# I'm certainly no fan of\_\_\_\_\_, but you've got to hand it to them... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 6, 2007, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-certainly-no-fan-of_____-but-youve-got-to-hand-it-to-them/418297 "2007-09-06T22:03:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-certainly-no-fan-of_____-but-youve-got-to-hand-it-to-them/418297/21 "2007-09-10T07:52:22Z")
Scientology. Few cults survive the death of the founder. They infiltrated the FBI. They fought the IRS and won. They continue to survive in the face of wide popular ridicule. They have gained influence in Hollywood, Law Enforcement and certain major corporations. Allstate fended off an infestation a few years back and now the rumor is they are trying to take over Cisco Systems, and may even have already done so. They are determined and effective. They are more dangerous than most folks realize and gaining influence all the time. ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-certainly-no-fan-of_____-but-youve-got-to-hand-it-to-them/418297/22 "2007-09-10T09:13:45Z")
**Prince** Don’t like his style of music…but damn! Talented guy. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-certainly-no-fan-of_____-but-youve-got-to-hand-it-to-them/418297/23 "2007-09-10T12:55:51Z")
John Travolta. He’s a high school dropout who rose to the top with Grease and Saturday Night Fever, then bottomed out. Then made the comeback of the decade in Pulp Fiction (I wish I’d bet people six months before Pulp Fiction came out that Travolta would be back on top within a year. Everybody would have thought it was a sucker’s bet). And he seems to have a stable Hollywood marriage. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-certainly-no-fan-of_____-but-youve-got-to-hand-it-to-them/418297/24 "2007-09-10T15:03:24Z")
BOSE corporation. I’m no fan since I believe they are overpriced, have little compatibility with other components, and don’t sound all that great. But they do a hell of a job selling themselves to the un-tech savy crowd who value ease-of-use, customer support, and nice demos in nice stores with informed salespeople over bang for the buck. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-certainly-no-fan-of_____-but-youve-got-to-hand-it-to-them/418297/25 "2007-09-10T15:23:36Z")
**Disney** , specifically their cable channel. I don’t think Disney has been a net benefit to popular culture since about 1988, but they are _insanely_ good at tapping into the “girls, age 9-13” demographic. There is a **huge** block of girls who watch **all** of their PM shows (_The Suite Life of Zack and Cody, Drake and Josh, Hannah Montana_, etc.), **every day**. Hell, they drove a mediocre pop CD by a 13 year old, _imaginary_ pop star to #1. They make it seem so effortless now, the formula: “Hey girls, here’s [Girl Name], the star of her new teen sitcom, All About [Girl Name].” Six months later, her CD comes out, _whether she can sing or not_. Six months after that, a made-for Disney Channel movie. It’s an assembly line. Whatever evil genius Disney had in the early 90s, when the Mickey Mouse Club was the spawning ground for so many future stars, has been sharpened and focused by a factor of ten since then. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-certainly-no-fan-of_____-but-youve-got-to-hand-it-to-them/418297/26 "2007-09-10T15:44:22Z")
**Intuit** , the makers of Quickbooks, Quicken and TurboTax Their support is non-existant without paying a buttload of money, they put out products that are completely useless after a few years without paying tons more for an upgrade or in TurboTax’s case, only useable for one year. They sell tons of add-ons right inside their apps and some crucial parts of the app (Quickbooks tax forms for payroll) cost a ton of money but you can’t live without them. They’ve also managed to worm their way into partnerships with most banks’ online services, so you’re better off just buying their programs so you can have it all work together. Skeevy, yes, but as a business owner and software developer, I am completely jealous of their brilliant business model. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-certainly-no-fan-of_____-but-youve-got-to-hand-it-to-them/418297/27 "2007-09-10T15:57:26Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] Like I always say, the Nazis may have been evil, but they had the best uniforms of all time. Their SS officer’s uniforms outclassed the Allies’ by a mile - no, by \*six million \*miles. [/QUOTE] > [@](#): > > Ride, ride ‘em Jewboy, > Ride ‘em all around the old corral. > Oh, I’m, I’m with you boy > If I’ve got to ride six million miles. _Kinky Friedman_ ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-certainly-no-fan-of_____-but-youve-got-to-hand-it-to-them/418297/28 "2007-09-10T16:06:02Z")
Rudolph Giuliani–Six years ago today, he was best known for the Rudy-Judy-Donna soap opera. Six years ago tomorrow, he was deservedly elevated to a much higher status. No matter what your opinion of him was or is, what he got done post-9/11 was miraculous. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-certainly-no-fan-of_____-but-youve-got-to-hand-it-to-them/418297/29 "2007-09-10T16:11:44Z")
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp] **Disney** , specifically their cable channel. I don’t think Disney has been a net benefit to popular culture since about 1988, but they are _insanely_ good at tapping into the “girls, age 9-13” demographic. There is a **huge** block of girls who watch **all** of their PM shows (_The Suite Life of Zack and Cody, Drake and Josh, Hannah Montana_, etc.), **every day**. Hell, they drove a mediocre pop CD by a 13 year old, _imaginary_ pop star to #1. They make it seem so effortless now, the formula: “Hey girls, here’s [Girl Name], the star of her new teen sitcom, All About [Girl Name].” Six months later, her CD comes out, _whether she can sing or not_. Six months after that, a made-for Disney Channel movie. It’s an assembly line. Whatever evil genius Disney had in the early 90s, when the Mickey Mouse Club was the spawning ground for so many future stars, has been sharpened and focused by a factor of ten since then. [/QUOTE] And it all started because someone thought a drawing of a mouse was cute. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-certainly-no-fan-of_____-but-youve-got-to-hand-it-to-them/418297/30 "2007-09-10T18:26:52Z")
The first thing that came to mind when I saw this is Catherine Zeta-Jones. I cannot stand her because she always comes across as an uptight bitch whose extremely shallow, snotty and difficult. However, in **Chicago** she practically stole the show! She personified her character and not only did I believe everything about it, I found her very attractive to boot. Not that she isn’t already, but her (seeming) attitude ruins that for me. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-certainly-no-fan-of_____-but-youve-got-to-hand-it-to-them/418297/31 "2007-09-10T18:51:57Z")
Oscar Wilde. His “I’m SOOOOO much more talented than everyone else I’ve ever hear of that it’s agonizing” shtick is annoying to the extreme. Personally, I feel that the opportunity to punch his lights out would be sufficient motivation to invest a lifetime of work and a trillion dollars into time travel technology. The only problem is that he was right. He WAS that talented. The bastard. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-certainly-no-fan-of_____-but-youve-got-to-hand-it-to-them/418297/32 "2007-09-10T19:03:44Z")
[QUOTE=Kizarvexius] Personally, I feel that the opportunity to punch his lights out would be sufficient motivation to invest a lifetime of work and a trillion dollars into time travel technology. [/QUOTE] The guy leading a “literary pub crawl” in Dublin one night (I know, an always-reliable source of information) claimed that Wilde was a formidable amateur boxer, 6’4", and over 200 pounds. If so, I might politely decline the invitation to trade blows with him. But, yeah, he can be kinda annoying. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-certainly-no-fan-of_____-but-youve-got-to-hand-it-to-them/418297/33 "2007-09-10T19:05:09Z")
[QUOTE=Bayard] If so, I might politely decline the invitation to trade blows with him. [/QUOTE] Uh…huh huh…huh huh… 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-certainly-no-fan-of_____-but-youve-got-to-hand-it-to-them/418297/34 "2007-09-10T19:18:00Z")
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp] Uh…huh huh…huh huh… 🆒 [/QUOTE] I considered making that joke myself, but I thought I’d let it go. Didn’t want to be my own straight man. Thanks for chipping in. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-certainly-no-fan-of_____-but-youve-got-to-hand-it-to-them/418297/35 "2007-09-10T19:55:03Z")
[QUOTE=Bayard] Didn’t want to be my own straight man. [/QUOTE] Wilde would be proud. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2007, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-certainly-no-fan-of_____-but-youve-got-to-hand-it-to-them/418297/36 "2007-09-11T04:21:28Z")
I said the same thing in an other thread, but… Musically, Jon Bon Jovi has never held much appeal for me. Still, the guy has… 1. Kept the same band with the same personnel together for 25+ years. 2. Stayed married to his high school girlfriend for 25+ years. 3. Worked at becoming a decent actor in small roles and in indie films, rather than going the Rick Springfield/Mariah Carey approach and making a horrible star-vehicle like “Glitter.” ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2007, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-certainly-no-fan-of_____-but-youve-got-to-hand-it-to-them/418297/37 "2007-09-11T05:09:56Z")
Karl Rove. Sure he is evil, but he is a hell of a political adviser. He and GWB delivered the extreme right wing way more than any sensible nation should have allowed them to. Oprah. I will never like her show, but I’m always amazed by how many women will listen to everything she says. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2007, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-certainly-no-fan-of_____-but-youve-got-to-hand-it-to-them/418297/38 "2007-09-11T12:50:42Z")
[QUOTE=Lakai] Karl Rove. Sure he is evil, but he is a hell of a political adviser. He and GWB delivered the extreme right wing way more than any sensible nation should have allowed them to. . [/QUOTE] As always, the Left gives Rove waaaaaaaaay too much credit. What did Karl Rove ever accomplish that ANY semi-competent strategist couldn’t/wouldn’t have? Start with Bush’s election as governor. Bush was a likable guy with a conservative record and a modrate image. He had 100% name recognition, because of his Dad. He was a Republican in a tate that had turned overwhelmingly Republican long before he came along (if Clayton Williams hadn’t been such a dolt, and hadn’t kept saying stupid, offensive things, Ann Richards would have been slaughtered 4 years earlier). With all that going for him, George W. Bush could have won in a cakewalk with ANY campaign manager! He didn’t NEED a genius to make him governor. And once he was governor of Texas… once again, he became the logical front-runner for the GOP nomination. I know I’ll be repeating myself, but look at all Bush’s strengths: 1. He had a famous name, and 100% name recognition. 2. He was governor of one of the largest states of the Union. 3. He had a conservative record and a moderate image. 4. He was a likable guy. That alone would have made him the man to beat in the GOP primaries in 2000. It didn’t take a genius to win him the nomination! Now, once Bush had the nomination, the election looked like a toss-up to practically everybody. I was sure it would be a squeaker, as were most observers. If Rove were a genius, Bush would have done MUCH better than he did. If Rove were a genius, Bush would have won at LEAST one state where the Republicans usually have no chance. So quick, name me a state Bush won that NEVER/ALMOST NEVER goes Republican. Answer: there WEREN’T any such states. Bush solely won by carrying states that are always/usually Republican strongholds. ANY decent campaign manager could have accomplished that. ---
**Author:** ![Tibidabo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@Tibidabo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibidabo)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2007, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-certainly-no-fan-of_____-but-youve-got-to-hand-it-to-them/418297/39 "2007-09-11T13:16:21Z")
Mr Kipling. He may molested me for years and told me if I ever told anyone he’d eat my cat ☹ be damned if he doesn’t make exceedingly good cakes though ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2007, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-certainly-no-fan-of_____-but-youve-got-to-hand-it-to-them/418297/40 "2007-09-11T14:36:22Z")
William Jefferson Clinton. Here is a man who was brought up in hideous circumstances, born after his father died, brought up by an abusive stepfather, yet he marres a rich woman and keeps the marriage stable despite getting plenty of action on the side, raises a daughter that hasn’t been in any trouble, is elected President twice, and may soon be the first “President’s Husband” in the land. He is the personification of the American Dream [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-certainly-no-fan-of_____-but-youve-got-to-hand-it-to-them/418297.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-certainly-no-fan-of_____-but-youve-got-to-hand-it-to-them/418297.md?page=3)