# I'm disgusted by Penn State's administration (and some of the students) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 27, 2006, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-disgusted-by-penn-states-administration-and-some-of-the-students/346369 "2006-02-27T21:06:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-disgusted-by-penn-states-administration-and-some-of-the-students/346369/1 "2006-02-27T21:06:17Z")
Some of you may remember the Rene Portland debacle, as discussed [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=340520). In a nutshell, the women’s basketball coach is being accused by Jen Harris of discrimination based on perceived sexual orientation. She claims Portland had her kicked off the team because she thought she was a lesbian (which she isn’t). Penn State does have an official [nondiscrimination policy](http://guru.psu.edu/POLICIES/Ad42.html) which includes sexual orientation. Penn State’s administration didn’t respond in a way Harris’ lawyers liked - they basically didn’t respond - and Harris is suing the school/Portland. And the school came up with the most brilliant argument ever. Paraphrased: “The non-discrimination policy is just an administrative policy. You can’t actually HOLD us to it.” Seriously. Today the student newspaper had a front-page [story](http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2006/02/02-27-06tdc/02-27-06dnews-06.asp) on the protest at the Lady Lion’s last home game. The protest consisted of marching outside, t-shirts with slogans, draping a rainbow flag over empty seats and booing a video montage of Portland’s achievements. The story quotes a student, clearly one of the sharpest minds of our time in public relations (which she majors in), who says: > [@](#): > > I don’t think the protest is appropriate because it’s the last home game. It’s not an appropriate arena. Oh, excuse me! Were they interrupting your enjoyment of the basketball game? How rude! And the LAST one no less! How could anything think some stupid discrimination issue is worth THAT? ---
**Author:** ![myskepticsight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@myskepticsight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/myskepticsight)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-disgusted-by-penn-states-administration-and-some-of-the-students/346369/2 "2006-02-27T21:10:57Z")
Isn’t the whole point of making policy to stick to it? Otherwise, why friggin bother to make it? And is this Portland lady a closeted lesbian with some major issues or what? Who the crap cares if one of your players is a lesbian? Ugh. If she plays well, you keep your job. That’s your only concern, Coach. Get over it. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-disgusted-by-penn-states-administration-and-some-of-the-students/346369/3 "2006-02-27T21:35:53Z")
Ultimately I guess that since Penn State is a privately ran school I don’t think that legally speaking they should be ruled against in this matter. However after learning here on the SDMB that Penn State is a school which receives public funding but is privately ran I’m still in shock. The people of Pennsylvania should fight to change that situation and make Penn State just as accountable to public school regulations as any other publicly funded school in the state. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-disgusted-by-penn-states-administration-and-some-of-the-students/346369/4 "2006-02-28T00:49:47Z")
Nothing will change until Paterno dies/retires and Spanier is held accountable for the way he runs the university. Until then, nothing will change. One of the (many) reasons I don’t like Penn State is their athletics uber alles mindset. I’ve worked with PSU grads and have been underwhelmed. But they’ve got the blue-and-white magnetic pawprint on the back of their car and that’s all that matters. They’ve got a half-senile fud as head coach of their football program whose salary is apparently under wraps despite efforts by the state press to force PSU to make it public. The man had several consecutive losing seasons that would have cost any other coach his job. But he’s JoePa! He _can’t_ retire! The man is a fucking saint here for reasons I can’t begin to fathom. Meanwhile, I’ll just be content with my lowly State System education. After all, it is a lot cheaper and I’m not just another face in the crowd. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-disgusted-by-penn-states-administration-and-some-of-the-students/346369/5 "2006-02-28T01:36:42Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > Nothing will change until Paterno dies/retires and Spanier is held accountable for the way he runs the university. Until then, nothing will change. > > One of the (many) reasons I don’t like Penn State is their athletics uber alles mindset. I’ve worked with PSU grads and have been underwhelmed. But they’ve got the blue-and-white magnetic pawprint on the back of their car and that’s all that matters. They’ve got a half-senile fud as head coach of their football program whose salary is apparently under wraps despite efforts by the state press to force PSU to make it public. The man had several consecutive losing seasons that would have cost any other coach his job. But he’s JoePa! He _can’t_ retire! The man is a fucking saint here for reasons I can’t begin to fathom. > > Meanwhile, I’ll just be content with my lowly State System education. After all, it is a lot cheaper and I’m not just another face in the crowd. > > Robin So basically, you mean, “Go Panthers!” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-disgusted-by-penn-states-administration-and-some-of-the-students/346369/6 "2006-02-28T01:41:49Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > So basically, you mean, “Go Panthers!” > > 😃 Uh, no. Basically, I mean [“Go Raiders!”](http://www.ship.edu/%7esid/) Robin ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-disgusted-by-penn-states-administration-and-some-of-the-students/346369/7 "2006-02-28T01:51:13Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > Uh, no. Basically, I mean [“Go Raiders!”](http://www.ship.edu/%7esid/) > > Robin Eh, well, that was all I could think of. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-disgusted-by-penn-states-administration-and-some-of-the-students/346369/8 "2006-02-28T02:09:09Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > Ultimately I guess that since Penn State is a privately ran school I don’t think that legally speaking they should be ruled against in this matter. > > However after learning here on the SDMB that Penn State is a school which receives public funding but is privately ran I’m still in shock. The people of Pennsylvania should fight to change that situation and make Penn State just as accountable to public school regulations as any other publicly funded school in the state. This was kind of shocking to me. Pennsylvania doesn’t actually have [state colleges](http://www.psu.edu/ur/about/character.html). They have > [@](#): > > institutions that are not state-owned and -operated but that have the character of public universities and receive substantial state appropriations. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-disgusted-by-penn-states-administration-and-some-of-the-students/346369/9 "2006-02-28T02:16:39Z")
> [@Helen's Eidolon](#): > > Oh, excuse me! Were they interrupting your enjoyment of the basketball game? How rude! And the LAST one no less! How could anything think some stupid discrimination issue is worth THAT? Shocking, that _those people_ could be so unladylike. Have they _no_ idea of the proper way to behave? ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-disgusted-by-penn-states-administration-and-some-of-the-students/346369/10 "2006-02-28T02:21:03Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > This was kind of shocking to me. Pennsylvania doesn’t actually have [state colleges](http://www.psu.edu/ur/about/character.html). They have Not quite. In addition to Penn State, which receives state funding but is privately operated, there is the [State System of Higher Education](http://www.passhe.edu), which is publicly owned and operated. Its non-faculty employees are state civil-service workers and the faculty has its own union. For some fields, PASSHE schools offer a better, less expensive education than Penn State. For example, one of my classmates graduated from PSU but came to Shippensburg for grad school because he could get hands-on experience he couldn’t get at Penn State. For some things, Penn State is the logical choice. But too many people go there because it’s known for athletics more than for academics. Robin ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-disgusted-by-penn-states-administration-and-some-of-the-students/346369/11 "2006-02-28T02:37:10Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > For some things, Penn State is the logical choice. But too many people go there because it’s known for athletics more than for academics _Looking over this, I want to say this isn’t in any way directed to **MsRobyn** personally_ That’s the main (in some cases the only) reason schools spend so much on the athletic programs. Name recognition. Marketing. You never see Harvard law students getting national TV coverage on a Saturday afternoon. Who the hell would pay the fee to ESPN for pay-per-view lectures? For a lot of schools the revenue generated by sports and national recognition bring in some big bucks for things like research centers and faculty to secure huge contracts for R&D. Not directly germaine to the OP, but some may not understand the reasoning behind millions spent by universities on athletics. Plus, a winning program has a gigantic effect on alumni contributions. I’d love to know how many programs are funded through direct revenue from football teams alone. Sports have become vital for many, if not all public universities. I’m curious about the protest. How many showed up? Out of how many in attendance? Protest all you want. Hell, we’ve had some malcontents protest our name. But if I buy a ticket to a game that is not only subsidized by me, but gains money by me buying a ticket, go protest on the fucking quad. I’m there to watch a game. Grow up and realize pissing me off isn’t going to win me over. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-disgusted-by-penn-states-administration-and-some-of-the-students/346369/12 "2006-02-28T02:46:38Z")
I’m not going to complain too much about athletics in general at Penn State - as a grad student on an assistantship, I know where my bread is buttered. Frankly, that has nothing to do with the issue at hand, which is the undercutting of the non-discrimination policy. **duffer** , the article says that about 40 people protested, and to be inside the arena it means that they had tickets to see the game as well. They aren’t against women’s basketball. They are on the side of the players. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-disgusted-by-penn-states-administration-and-some-of-the-students/346369/13 "2006-02-28T02:56:03Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > _Looking over this, I want to say this isn’t in any way directed to **MsRobyn** personally_ Understood. My point is that while students may benefit from multi-million-dollar athletics programs indirectly (in terms of facilities and so forth), in the long run, these mega-programs can hurt because they siphon off resources away from academics and cause significant PR problems for the university, like academic integrity scandals and such. I’ve got a whole magazine upstairs all about collegiate athletics. I’ll read through it and look for some numbers. ---
**Author:** ![beergeek279](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ea924/32.png) [@beergeek279](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beergeek279)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-disgusted-by-penn-states-administration-and-some-of-the-students/346369/14 "2006-02-28T04:17:40Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > Meanwhile, I’ll just be content with my lowly State System education. After all, it is a lot cheaper and I’m not just another face in the crowd. > > Robin Well said. I’m a California University of Pennsylvania alumnus and I have to agree that the good ol’ SSHE prepared me quite well for a graduate school education…and it was 2000 dollars cheaper a semester than any of the Penn State campuses (and I did go to one for a year or two). > [@](#): > > So basically, you mean, “Go Panthers!” Hey, are you trying to sicken a proud Mountaineer? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-disgusted-by-penn-states-administration-and-some-of-the-students/346369/15 "2006-02-28T04:47:03Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > That’s the main (in some cases the only) reason schools spend so much on the athletic programs. Name recognition. Marketing. You never see Harvard law students getting national TV coverage on a Saturday afternoon. Who the hell would pay the fee to ESPN for pay-per-view lectures? > > For a lot of schools the revenue generated by sports and national recognition bring in some big bucks for things like research centers and faculty to secure huge contracts for R&D. Not directly germaine to the OP, but some may not understand the reasoning behind millions spent by universities on athletics. I never believed this, but I’ve seen how it’s been true for the University of Connecticut, which has had successful men’s and women’s basketball teams for the last few years. When I was graduating from high school in Connecticut about twenty years ago, UConn was seen merely as a “safety school.” But now, it’s attracting many more prospective students, allowing the school to be more selective and the state legislature has committed $2.3 billion for campus development. Basketball has definitely raised the school’s profile. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-disgusted-by-penn-states-administration-and-some-of-the-students/346369/16 "2006-02-28T07:49:29Z")
> [@myskepticsight](#): > > Isn’t the whole point of making policy to stick to it? Otherwise, why friggin bother to make it? I’ll let you know when I find out why the company I work for does the same shit… Sam ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-disgusted-by-penn-states-administration-and-some-of-the-students/346369/17 "2006-02-28T17:37:00Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > They’ve got a half-senile fud as head coach of their football program… Age-ist bias is not any prettier than what the PSU women’s basketball coach has been up to. From all appearances, Paterno is quite active and alert, and not just “for his age”. When he says dumb and offensive things he should be held accountable for them, but calling him “half-senile” without justification is not defensible. ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-disgusted-by-penn-states-administration-and-some-of-the-students/346369/18 "2006-02-28T17:51:13Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > Understood. > > My point is that while students may benefit from multi-million-dollar athletics programs indirectly (in terms of facilities and so forth), in the long run, these mega-programs can hurt because they siphon off resources away from academics and cause significant PR problems for the university, like academic integrity scandals and such. > > I’ve got a whole magazine upstairs all about collegiate athletics. I’ll read through it and look for some numbers. PR problems perhaps, but the football program pays for itself 100%. Tickets ain’t free, and neither are rights to broadcast the games. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-disgusted-by-penn-states-administration-and-some-of-the-students/346369/19 "2006-02-28T18:07:53Z")
> [@](#): > > **Jackmanii** said: > From all appearances, Paterno is quite active and alert, and not just “for his age”. When he says dumb and offensive things he should be held accountable for them, but calling him “half-senile” without justification is not defensible. Although my sister has remarked that his driving is downright frightening, since he maneuvers his car like a drunken Mr. Magoo and college students run in fright when they see him approaching. I don’t think she would make up anti-Paterno fabrications, as her blood is Nittany blue.