# I'm done with my state's GOP. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 9, 2005, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-done-with-my-states-gop/307573 "2005-06-09T08:05:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-done-with-my-states-gop/307573/1 "2005-06-09T08:05:13Z")
A few days ago I got my letter asking to renew membership in the state GOP. I refused. Based solely on the support given for the ban on smoking that infringes on private businesses. My own fucking party in this state wants to dictate how private individuals can run their businesses in regards to a legal product they greedily collect taxes on. After a few days of mulling it over, I sent off the following to party HQ. > [@](#): > > To whom it may concern, > > Recently I received a mailing concerning this year’s donation to the state GOP. I regretlfully must ask to be removed from all future mailings from the NDGOP. I will continue to donate to and vote for GOP candidates in national elections, but must refrain from doing so at the state and local levels. > > For years after I moved here I actively campaigned for state and local Republican candidates. I was delighted to find such common sense in the GOP of my adopted home state. I was proud to say I was a North Dakota Republican. > > However, my anger and frustration the past few months has led me to give up on the state party. This was precipitated by the GOP backing of the smoking ban. Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought I’d support a party that decides from Bismarck to ride roughshod over the basic rights of citizens engaging enjoyment of a legal product. What is even more appalling is the idea that our elected leaders, from the party I’ve seen work so hard to support businesses, tell these folks risking all they have, what they can and can’t do in the establishment. > > I can understand a business deciding they don’t want smoking in their establishment. What I can’t understand is the legislature dictating that a businessman no longer has a choice concerning use of a legal product on his or her premises. It’s nothing more than caving to the passive-aggressive tactics of the anti-smoking groups. If there were such a groundswell of support for non-smoking establishments, there would be many more of them. The fact that many restaurants and bars still allow smoking and still make a profit speaks to the fact that overregulating is uncalled for. The market will make or break a business depending on how it’s run. It’s often very difficult to run a business in this state to begin with, these owners don’t need needless mandates from the very lawmakers that purport to be working for them. > > I’m sorry to say, I am now embarassed to be associated with the party. Mark me as newly independant. Even the party I most closely identify with wants to join the throng in treating me as a second-class citizen. I realize that even being considered a red state by most, the GOP here is little more than slightly conservative Democrats. I’ve had it. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-done-with-my-states-gop/307573/2 "2005-06-09T08:45:46Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Even the party I most closely identify with wants to join the throng in treating me as a second-class citizen. I realize that even being considered a red state by most, the GOP here is little more than slightly conservative Democrats. > > I’ve had it. Oh, fuck the hell off. There is only one county near me that has a smoking ban. In the last election, almost 70% of them voted for Bush. This is not a Democrats vs. Republicans issue, it’s smokers vs. (some very vocal) non-smokers. I’m a liberal Democrat and ex-smoker, and I’m not your fucking enemy. I think these bans are stupid. You may continue to vote for the party that stomps on gay rights at your leisure, as they’re not turning into conservative Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-done-with-my-states-gop/307573/3 "2005-06-09T09:45:51Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > You may continue to vote for the party that stomps on gay rights at your leisure, as they’re not turning into conservative Democrats. Hey dipshit. Ever check political leanings in Oregon? And before you preach about the rights of one group over another, keep in mind that one group (gays) are trying to get new rights instituted. Another (smokers) are seeing rights eroded left and right. You want to equate the two? Have at it. Mind if I spend a few nanoseconds on something that directly affects me? Fuck you ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-done-with-my-states-gop/307573/4 "2005-06-09T10:15:24Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Hey dipshit. Ever check political leanings in Oregon? What do the political leanings of Oregon have to do with anything? Spacey fucker. > [@](#): > > And before you preach about the rights of one group over another, keep in mind that one group (gays) are trying to get new rights instituted. I didn’t preach about one group’s rights over the rights of another. Remember, I’m the guy who wants both smokers **and** gays to have rights. Illiterate fucker. > [@](#): > > Another (smokers) are seeing rights eroded left and right. And I said this was a **bad** thing in my opinion, remember? “La-la-la, I can’t hear you” fucker. > [@](#): > > You want to equate the two? I didn’t equate the two. Let me repeat it for you. You insinuated that the Democrats are the ones behind most smoking bans. I told you it was some non-smokers, comprised of Republcans and Democrats alike, who were pushing for the bans. You ignored that. Mistaken fucker. > [@](#): > > Have at it. Mind if I spend a few nanoseconds on something that directly affects me? Shit, that attitude is **exactly** why the bans are passing. There are more non-smokers than smokers, so if most of them don’t give a shit about things that directly affect others, such as smokers, you get the bans. Selfish fucker being fucked by selfish fuckers. > [@](#): > > Fuck you No thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Arwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Arwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arwin)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-done-with-my-states-gop/307573/5 "2005-06-09T10:30:22Z")
Over here, the discussion wasn’t about whether or not the patrons, who do indeed usually have a choice, should be protected by such a ban, but whether the employees should be so protected, as for many employees, the choice isn’t always to work in a smoking or non-smoking bar, but whether to work in a smoking bar or not to work at all and end up living in the streets. After huge protests from the restaurant and café businesses, the bill did not pass, but it is not off the table. It’s an interesting issue, not easy. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-done-with-my-states-gop/307573/6 "2005-06-09T10:37:45Z")
> [@Arwin](#): > > Over here, the discussion wasn’t about whether or not the patrons, who do indeed usually have a choice, should be protected by such a ban, but whether the employees should be so protected, as for many employees, the choice isn’t always to work in a smoking or non-smoking bar, but whether to work in a smoking bar or not to work at all and end up living in the streets. Arwin, while I actually do understand the issue that employees face in smoking environments, and actually sympathize with them, I really don’t buy that that is the reason this stuff is passing everywhere. Most of the people who support the ban could likely give a flying fuck about the employees of these places (unless they are one of the said employees), but just want to not have anyone smoking where they might be. I even understand where the non-smokers are coming from, but still don’t support the bans. ---
**Author:** ![Terrazzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Terrazzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrazzo)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-done-with-my-states-gop/307573/7 "2005-06-09T11:19:09Z")
A flat smoking ban in ANY place of business that will have members of the public either working or visiting would be (and is) absolutely fantastic and is most certainly long overdue in all civilised countries. How you can somehow think you have some sort of moral highground for withdrawing support for a party that supports the idea of letting people find employment in businesses that do not attempt to slowly murder them is quite beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-done-with-my-states-gop/307573/8 "2005-06-09T11:33:19Z")
Why don’t both you fuckers just calm the fuck down, I mean fucking really… WTF… ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-done-with-my-states-gop/307573/9 "2005-06-09T11:56:59Z")
> [@Terrazzo](#): > > A flat smoking ban in ANY place of business that will have members of the public either working or visiting would be (and is) absolutely fantastic and is most certainly long overdue in all civilised countries. > > How you can somehow think you have some sort of moral highground for withdrawing support for a party that supports the idea of letting people find employment in businesses that do not attempt to slowly murder them is quite beyond me. And this is the reactionary idiocy those of us more committed to freedom are up against. **Terrazzo** not only gets to control his lungs, not only doubtless tries to control the lungs of anyone nearby, but also attempts to enshrine legislation taking away people’s rights to enjoy a cigarette with their after dinner coffee. Very nice - you don’t approve of a lifestyle choice, so you get to ban it? You think you’re on the moral highground here for taking away people’s rights? Because you can’t possibly claim that you’re hurting for places to go that don’t allow smoking. Businesses that allow it include certain restaurants, and bars. To avoid cigarette smoke - if you simply can’t stand it - just means going outside, or to a restaurant that doesn’t permit it, or to a grocery store, or a mall, or a public building, or a café, or a theater, or a movie theater, or a museum, or a store, or, well, anywhere else. It’s _that_ vital that you manage to remove the rights of smokers to smoke in the very few public places left where it’s permitted? Are all nonsmokers such reactionary, controlling assholes? BTW, **duffer** , this also should function as a lesson in how willing the GOP is to throw away its vaunted commitment to free markets. There’s plenty of people perfectly willing to throw out a businessperson’s right to run their business as they see fit. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-done-with-my-states-gop/307573/10 "2005-06-09T11:59:37Z")
> [@Terrazzo](#): > > How you can somehow think you have some sort of moral highground for withdrawing support for a party that supports the idea of letting people find employment in businesses that do not attempt to slowly murder them is quite beyond me. I’m pretty sure I’m already allowed to find employment at such businesses. Hang on a sec, I’ll check… … Good Lord, I am. Well, I guess we don’t have to ban smoking now, eh? Huzzah! ---
**Author:** ![Terrazzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Terrazzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrazzo)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-done-with-my-states-gop/307573/11 "2005-06-09T12:14:13Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m pretty sure I’m already allowed to find employment at such businesses. Hang on a sec, I’ll check… So smoking in already banned in all workplaces where you live then? Good show, just the way it should be. If it isn’t, then you are not free from the act of being slowly killed by others chosen lifestyle habits whilst you perform your job. Employers have a duty of care to protect employees from harm in their place of work – to allow smoking to occur in the presence of paid staff can be seen as extremely negligent. People have the right to be safe in their chosen workplace – and the employer must take all available precautions to ensure that workers remain safe. You should not, ever, have to put up with being slowly killed in your chosen place of work. Not by anyone. Why do those who appose such bans put precedence on the right to make profit over the right to life? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-done-with-my-states-gop/307573/12 "2005-06-09T12:20:47Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > You want to equate the two? Have at it. Mind if I spend a few nanoseconds on something that directly affects me? > > Fuck you Wow, and you finally admit to your level of ultimate ego-centrism. “Do whatever you want to anyone else as long as it doesn’t hurt meeeeeeeeeee!” I think you fit in with the GOP perfectly. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-done-with-my-states-gop/307573/13 "2005-06-09T12:21:50Z")
> [@Terrazzo](#): > > You should not, ever, have to put up with being slowly killed in your chosen place of work. Yeah, let’s be melodramatic. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-done-with-my-states-gop/307573/14 "2005-06-09T12:27:21Z")
> [@Terrazzo](#): > > So smoking in already banned in all workplaces where you live then? Good show, just the way it should be. > > If it isn’t, then you are not free from the act of being slowly killed by others chosen lifestyle habits whilst you perform your job. Employers have a duty of care to protect employees from harm in their place of work – to allow smoking to occur in the presence of paid staff can be seen as extremely negligent. People have the right to be safe in their chosen workplace – and the employer must take all available precautions to ensure that workers remain safe. You should not, ever, have to put up with being slowly killed in your chosen place of work. Not by anyone. > > Why do those who appose such bans put precedence on the right to make profit over the right to life? Oh, yeah? You wanna demonstrate and quantify the danger of secondhand smoke? Go ahead, I’ll wait. You’ll have to do some new epidemiological studies, though, because the ones that exist don’t support your point of view. Which is just one of the ways we can tell that your point of view is stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Terrazzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Terrazzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrazzo)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-done-with-my-states-gop/307573/15 "2005-06-09T12:31:26Z")
**Excalibre:** > [@](#): > > And this is the reactionary idiocy those of us more committed to freedom are up against. What about freedom to health or life for all employers? You are free to smoke at home, or in designated places in (outside) your place of work, but not IN a place of work where other people (or customers) will be affected by your smoke. > [@](#): > > Terrazzo not only gets to control his lungs, not only doubtless tries to control the lungs of anyone nearby, but also attempts to enshrine legislation taking away people’s rights to enjoy a cigarette with their after dinner coffee. Damn right - if I am eating close-by you should not be smoking near me in a restaurant / bar / inside public place. If you wish to smoke, then take it outside. > [@](#): > > Very nice - you don’t approve of a lifestyle choice, so you get to ban it? I don’t want to ban it at all – I want it moved to a designated location so it does not inconvenience or harm me whilst I continue with my chosen profession or with my social choices. > [@](#): > > You think you’re on the moral highground here for taking away people’s rights? I never claimed such a thing – but I do believe the right to life and health totally supersedes your ‘right’ to smoke indoors after eating in a restaurant, when you can easily go outside to do so, if you desire. > [@](#): > > Because you can’t possibly claim that you’re hurting for places to go that don’t allow smoking. Businesses that allow it include certain restaurants, and bars. To avoid cigarette smoke - if you simply can’t stand it - just means going outside, or to a restaurant that doesn’t permit it, or to a grocery store, or a mall, or a public building, or a café, or a theater, or a movie theater, or a museum, or a store, or, well, anywhere else. It’s that vital that you manage to remove the rights of smokers to smoke in the very few public places left where it’s permitted? Why should I have to “stand it”, to “put up with it”, to “just get along” with others who are intent on doing me physical harm due to their own selfish choices? All I’m asking for it the choice to visit a place of business (this includes any place I desire that offers a service – the business has no right to discriminate against me as a customer) without being attacked or harmed by others. BTW: Slowly killing other citizens due to your lifestyle choice is now a ‘right’? Can you show me from where you support that idea from? > [@](#): > > Are all nonsmokers such reactionary, controlling assholes? You seem to be a very angry, judgemental young man. What with your smoking and the stress of all your anger you really should watch your blood pressure. That’s a fragile thing, your heart, you know. **TDN:** > [@](#): > > Yeah, let’s be melodramatic. Are you suggesting that tobacco smoke is not harmful, or that passive smoking is not at all dangerous or not responsible for any deaths? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-done-with-my-states-gop/307573/16 "2005-06-09T12:31:54Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > You’ll have to do some new epidemiological studies, though, because the ones that exist don’t support your point of view. I tried making this argument in a different thread and failed miserably. Perhaps it’s time for a GQ on this topic? ---
**Author:** ![Terrazzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Terrazzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrazzo)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-done-with-my-states-gop/307573/17 "2005-06-09T12:33:31Z")
[Passive smoking killing thousands](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4309613.stm) > [@](#): > > Passive smoking kills more than 11,000 a year in the UK - much higher than previously thought, a study shows. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-done-with-my-states-gop/307573/18 "2005-06-09T12:36:54Z")
> [@Terrazzo](#): > > [Passive smoking killing thousands](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4309613.stm) > [@](#): > > Researchers at University of Queensland in Australia compiled the report from UK databases of causes of death, employment, structure of households and levels of active smoking and exposure to passive smoking. > > They found 2,700 deaths among people aged 20 to 64 could be attributed to second-hand smoke and 8,000 in 65-year-olds and over. > > A further 617 deaths were caused by workplace passive smoking, including 54 in the hospitality industry. This is a statistical study containing very little hard evidence. Highly speculative. Essentially, the people involved are guessing that passive smoking caused these deaths. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-done-with-my-states-gop/307573/19 "2005-06-09T12:40:26Z")
> [@Terrazzo](#): > > **TDN:** > Are you suggesting that tobacco smoke is not harmful, or that passive smoking is not at all dangerous or not responsible for any deaths? I’m suggesting that: a) There is some question about the validity of the studies that indicate that second-hand smoke is harmful, or to the degree of harmfulness. I’d like to clear the air, so to speak. b) Your phrase “slowly killing us” is melodramatic. I’ve tried killing my enemies with second hand smoke. Trust me, it’s not reliable. A gun or knife would be a much better tool. ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-done-with-my-states-gop/307573/20 "2005-06-09T12:41:57Z")
I would just like to add my voice here: I am a non-smoker, and I do not support these smoking bans. They are nothing but a thinly-disguised ‘temperance’ movement for cigarettes. Also, regarding the employee-argument: can you seriously claim that there are so many ‘smoking-allowed’ places that the choice is going to be working in a smoky environment or having no job at all? It seems to me that in the States and here in the UK non-smoking establishments outnumber smoking ones. How about allowing there to be a designated (indoors, especially in a cold place like North Dakota) smoking room? Why is that harmful? There are plenty of studies that say ‘passive smoking’ is dangerous, and plenty that do not. The jury is still out; but most ‘passive smoking’ is not continuous or impossible to avoid, especially in most working environments. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-done-with-my-states-gop/307573.md?page=2)