# I'm dreading the Oscars. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 4, 2017, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973 "2017-02-04T06:16:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/101 "2017-02-06T18:46:34Z")
So…let me get this straight. It’s alright to complain if you’re Michael Moore, but not if you’re Meryl Streep? Uh…yeahrite. Seems a lot of people here don’t get it. Let’s just all be moderate and quiet, it’s alright if Trump destroys liberty and ‘the American way.’ If the environment has about as much protection as a leaky condom. If he does his utmost to alienate just about every ally we have, while he cozies up to Russia, who (as a government) want nothing more than to screw us over. Let’s forget about all the propagandist bullshit his administration vomits up in an attempt to confuse from the real issues, and to say ‘Don’t believe your lyin’ eyes!’ (…or ears…or video…) And no, I’m not overstating. Trump would like nothing more than to make the country into a dictatorship. You know it, I know it, everyone who isn’t willfully delusional knows it. There is only one way to combat that, through constant resistance. Trust me, it’s not going to get old for me until that Mussolini-wannabe is a distant memory. And if it does for you, you can either shut up and let it happen or keep on fighting. This is not a game, this is real life. And there’s one helluva lot at risk. So either fight or get out of the way, but don’t waste your time and mine telling me I’m being too repetitive. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/102 "2017-02-06T18:49:46Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > But it’s also been said here that by constant repetition, folks who don’t like Trump (Group #2) might eventually see the light. That this constant haranguing serves some larger purpose than just feeding the echo chamber. But folks in Group #2 aren’t going to listen to a bunch of “Hollywood Liberals”. They like Trump, in part, because he thumbs his nose at folks like that. This will make him more popular with that Group. Perhaps you were thinking that I was saying Group #2 would expand. No, that’s not what I meant. Just that Trump haters would continue their hate, and Trump supporters would find even more reason to keep supporting him. What if a significant groundswell of dissent caused a lot of Congressmen to gaze into their political crystal balls and, seeing the possible outcomes of their political futures, spoke and cast their legislative votes accordingly? Or are you suggesting that even the vestiges of democracy are really and truly dead? > [@Shodan](#): > > I have a point because it isn’t one person. It’s every liberal in the country screaming in frustration that their anointed candidate managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. If you think this is about Hillary Clinton, then no, you have no point. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/103 "2017-02-06T19:03:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Two different groups of people. > > Group #1, like most of the people in this thread, hate Trump and love hearing others express that opinion. That’s the joy of the echo chamber. Many of the folks in Group #1 like nothing more than hearing their own opinions expressed by other people. Trump = bad; SAY IT AGAIN!!! Hit that pleasure center in my brain!! > > But it’s also been said here that by constant repetition, folks who don’t like Trump (Group #2) might eventually see the light. That this constant haranguing serves some larger purpose than just feeding the echo chamber. But folks in Group #2 aren’t going to listen to a bunch of “Hollywood Liberals”. They like Trump, in part, because he thumbs his nose at folks like that. This will make him more popular with that Group. Perhaps you were thinking that I was saying Group #2 would expand. No, that’s not what I meant. Just that Trump haters would continue their hate, and Trump supporters would find even more reason to keep supporting him. And that is why I said it was contradictory, by not separating those groups. In any case, you should notice that I’m not talking in the tread about just liberals. As many times as it has been demonstrated in many topics, in most of the developed world what we call liberals and many democrats are actually middle of the road or moderates in other developed nations. In context, people around the world do listen to a bunch of “Hollywood liberals” and they are people that are wondering now if most Americans totally agree with Trump. Pointing and remind many times later to all the people of the world that that is not the case is very important IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/104 "2017-02-06T19:05:24Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You wouldn’t get that advice the first 562,387 times. > > You want to end everything with “[del]Carthago[/del] Trumpo delenda est”, knock yourselves out. I suspect Cato the Elder had much the same effect on the Roman Senate. > > Regards, > Shodan > [@Hiker](#): > > Well - we do not know whether the Senate was bored. But we do know what happened to Carthago. Beat me to that, like Rome did… ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/105 "2017-02-06T19:28:29Z")
Nero fiddled while Rome burned. The USA is Rome. It’s people are self-governing. They are Nero and are fiddling while their democracy burns down around them and the government that they elected races the world toward irrecoverable climate change. Now some actors are standing up to meet their civic responsibilities. For folks upset about the real world intruding on their boob-tube fix, the solution is at hand: simply lift a finger – only one single finger – and press a button on the remote control to change the channel, kick back, and enjoy some soma, “there is always soma, delicious soma, half a gramme for a half-holiday, a gramme for a week-end, two grammes for a trip to the gorgeous East, three for a dark eternity on the moon; returning whence they find themselves on the other side of the crevice . . .” [Aldous Huxley, _Brave New World_, 1932]. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/106 "2017-02-06T22:46:04Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I’m sorry, but we all have to make sacrifices in the resistance movement. School plays, baseball games, and 4th of July picnics will all have a “Fuck Trump” theme until he’s gone. The struggle is real. If people get bored, we must simply turn up the volume. This presumes everyone _wants_ to be part of the “Resistance Movement”, though. Millions of people in America are not only OK with the things your new President is doing but _actively encourage the situation_. “Turning up the volume” isn’t going to win converts. It’s going to annoy people and quite possibly drive them away from your “cause”. At this point, you aren’t going to gain any more converts to the “We Hate The President Travelling Echo Chamber Roadshow Bandwagon”. Like I said before: We, the collective population of planet Earth, know. We get it. It doesn’t need to be constantly pointed out. If Mr Trump continues to do unconventional things and alienate people, then they’ll come around without every lefty in America spamming the internet with memes and engaging discussion equivalent of “Imma let you finish, but Trump is the worst president ever!” Another observation: There is an echo chamber effect at work, as **John Mace** notes. I’m not sure about the US, but it’s well known in Australia most of the folks on Twitter are left-leaning, or media/art/creative types. it’s not even close to representative of the general population and I believe the situation is true in the US - which is why you end up with all these angry outraged left-leaning folks truly baffled at how the “wrong” candidate won, because they didn’t hear from the 75% of folks who aren’t on social media all day beating drums and flying the We Hate The Approved Person flags. > [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Moderates always give activists the advice to do things in moderation. I recommend rereading “Letter from a Birmingham Jail” for a refutation of this advice. I’ll look into it but I still believe moderation is the way forward for civil disagreement. Personally, I respond to moderate discussion and debate far better than I do with… well, whatever Liberal America™ is currently engaging in at the moment. And a friendly reminder for those just tuning in: I don’t live in America. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/107 "2017-02-06T22:51:45Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I’ll look into it but I still believe moderation is the way forward for civil disagreement. And how does that usually work out when only one side takes the “moderate” approach? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/108 "2017-02-06T22:52:46Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > This presumes everyone _wants_ to be part of the “Resistance Movement”, though. Millions of people in America are not only OK with the things your new President is doing but _actively encourage the situation_. “Turning up the volume” isn’t going to win converts. It’s going to annoy people and quite possibly drive them away from your “cause”. Not everyone wanted to be part of the French Resistance in WWII. Not being an American I think you might not grasp what it means to have a complete buffoon in the White House. He has no interest in or knowledge of policy. (He put Steve Bannon on the National Security Council _by mistake_!) He has no core values, and no agenda other than making money for himself and his friends. He may be mentally ill. He has very small hands. I’ve lived through LBJ, Reagan, and Bush II, and this is different. It’s not my job to “win converts.” Hopefully the DNC can figure that out. It’s my job as an American to say “not in my name.” ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/109 "2017-02-06T23:01:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And how does that usually work out when only one side takes the “moderate” approach? [Pretty well](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Empire#Decolonisation_and_decline_.281945.E2.80.931997.29). > [@Procrustus](#): > > Not everyone wanted to be part of the French Resistance in WWII. And most people weren’t but supported what they were doing. The difference was the Nazis had _invaded France_ and occupied it. They hadn’t voted to become part of The Greater Reich or anything. That’s a very different kettle of fish to “Our country has a popularly elected president we don’t like”, the… unconventional statements and actions of said president notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/110 "2017-02-06T23:09:24Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > That’s a very different kettle of fish to “Our country has a popularly elected president we don’t like”, the… unconventional statements and actions of said president notwithstanding. As we have been trying to point out, this is not just a President “we don’t like.” I’ve lived through many of those. It is not that Trump is “unconventional.” Hell, that sounds like a good thing. He is a menace to our freedoms, our environment, our standing in the world, our respect for law, a free press, and about anything else you can think of that we hold dear. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/111 "2017-02-06T23:12:16Z")
> [@Richard\_John\_Marcej](#): > > I > This is 2017. We have so many options to watch/listen to what we want when we want you don’t have to “dread” anything. But but… Won’t someone think of the Recreational Outrage that would be lost forever? What would people have to complain about then? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/112 "2017-02-06T23:14:18Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > What if a significant groundswell of dissent caused a lot of Congressmen to gaze into their political crystal balls and, seeing the possible outcomes of their political futures, spoke and cast their legislative votes accordingly? Or are you suggesting that even the vestiges of democracy are really and truly dead? If the groundswell was from their state/district, yes. But we’re talking about Hollywood here. Is anyone really persuaded by listening to the political rambling of Hollywood types? I don’t watch the Oscars, generally, so it doesn’t really matter to me personally one way or the other. I’m just amazed that anyone would think that form of “protest” had any value other than making a bunch of movie stars feel even better about themselves than they already do. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/113 "2017-02-06T23:36:15Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > [Pretty well](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Empire#Decolonisation_and_decline_.281945.E2.80.931997.29). > > And most people weren’t but supported what they were doing. The difference was the Nazis had _invaded France_ and occupied it. They hadn’t voted to become part of The Greater Reich or anything. > > That’s a very different kettle of fish to “Our country has a popularly elected president we don’t like”, the… unconventional statements and actions of said president notwithstanding. Here’s an [example](http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/06/politics/john-yoo-donald-trump-executive-actions/?iid=ob_lockedrail_longstory_pool), from the Former Justice Department lawyer who told Bush it was okay to torture people: > [@](#): > > “During the campaign, Mr. Trump gave little sign that he understood the constitutional roles of the three branches, as when he promised to appoint justices to the Supreme Court who would investigate Hillary Clinton,” Yoo wrote. “In his inaugural address, Mr. Trump did not acknowledge that his highest responsibility, as demanded by his oath of office, is to ‘preserve, protect and defend the Constitution.’ Instead, he declared his duty to represent the wishes of the people and end ‘American carnage,’ seemingly without any constitutional restraint.” ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/114 "2017-02-06T23:37:55Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The part were you say that it was demonstrated that people do like to hear messages that they like. The Oscars is a time were supporters of Trump would also find out other ideas. Ideas showing a dislike of Trump and his policies, not what they would like to hear. > > So I do not think that = “the most likely effect of this will be to make him even more popular.” Here is the thing. People don’t like to be told they are wrong. They don’t like to be told they are evil. That is the net affect of the screaming fits the left are throwing right now, ‘if you don’t agree that Trump is the evilest thing to ever evil then you are evil!!!’. How’d that work for Clinton? Remember the ‘deplorable’ thing? The liberals are on a roll though. Just keep ramping it up. Pretty soon everyone outside of L.A. and New York will be a Trump supporter. Slee ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/115 "2017-02-06T23:48:43Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > Here is the thing. People don’t like to be told they are wrong. They don’t like to be told they are evil. That is the net affect of the screaming fits the left are throwing right now, ‘if you don’t agree that Trump is the evilest thing to ever evil then you are evil!!!’. > > How’d that work for Clinton? Remember the ‘deplorable’ thing? I don’t think Clinton would had declared people that were already vetted to come to the USA or with green cards to be for all intents to be declared as undesirables and then mess with their lives. Nor she would had rounded up those American deplorables in FEMA camps as many of those deplorables believed. (again, not all of the supporters of Trump are like that but many decided to get in bed with him. Don’t complain that you got fleas now) > [@sleestak](#): > > The liberals are on a roll though. Just keep ramping it up. Pretty soon everyone outside of L.A. and New York will be a Trump supporter. > > Slee New York suffered the worst in the past and yet Trump lost the state by almost 30 points even while he was already screaming that Muslims would be stopped day in and day out. That is because most New Yorkers can differentiate between terrorists coming from those nations and people that do not approve of them that also do come from those broken nations. So yes, get used to get your points shot down as deplorable and do not expect LA or New York to support Trump or you guys. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/116 "2017-02-07T00:08:27Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > As we have been trying to point out, this is not just a President “we don’t like.” I’ve lived through many of those. It is not that Trump is “unconventional.” Hell, that sounds like a good thing. He is a menace to our freedoms, our environment, our standing in the world, our respect for law, a free press, and about anything else you can think of that we hold dear. That’s fine and I’m not disagreeing that’s the view - I don’t live in the US so I can only take folks on their word about the threats they believe he poses to the foundations of America. But what I’m saying is “You (Liberal America™) Have Made Your Point”. We know. We get it. Harping on about it at every opportunity - especially ones not directly related to the president - might make the Right On crowd feel good but it’s not doing them any favours either, as **sleestak** rightly notes. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/117 "2017-02-07T00:20:32Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > It’s the industry giving itself a hand job; why watch at all? Wrong awards show. You’re thinking of the Adult Video News. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/118 "2017-02-07T00:20:46Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > As we have been trying to point out, this is not just a President “we don’t like.” I’ve lived through many of those. It is not that Trump is “unconventional.” Hell, that sounds like a good thing. He is a menace to our freedoms, our environment, our standing in the world, our respect for law, a free press, and about anything else you can think of that we hold dear. And Bush 43 was just like Hitler, according to folks on this board at the time. Is Trump worse than Hitler? I’m going to go out on a limb and say no, at least not until he starts in with the genocide. So what is a person supposed to think - those previous criticisms were totally realistic and Trump is worse, or those previous criticisms were exaggerated, but these current ones are totally realistic. Or maybe, the idea that this represents some kind of existential threat that needs to be shouted about all the time any time and is different than all the other times the union was at stake. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/119 "2017-02-07T00:32:16Z")
[Perhaps the Hollywood stars at the Oscar’s will use their time at the microphone to tell us all about the terrorist attacks that the press is hiding from us, @ 22 sec.](http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-claims-media-is-covering-up-terror-attacks-citing-no-evidence/ar-AAmG36U?li=BBnb7Kz) ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/120 "2017-02-07T00:41:34Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > Here is the thing. People don’t like to be told they are wrong. They don’t like to be told they are evil. That is the net affect of the screaming fits the left are throwing right now, ‘if you don’t agree that Trump is the evilest thing to ever evil then you are evil!!!’. > > How’d that work for Clinton? Remember the ‘deplorable’ thing? > > The liberals are on a roll though. Just keep ramping it up. Pretty soon everyone outside of L.A. and New York will be a Trump supporter. > > Slee “I told Orville and I told Wilbur and now I’m telling you – it just won’t work!!” :dubious: Forgive me if I don’t fall all over the sixty-million-Trump-voters-can’t-be-wrong meme. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973.md?page=7)