# I'm dreading the Oscars. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 4, 2017, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973 "2017-02-04T06:16:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/121 "2017-02-07T00:44:57Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > Here is the thing. People don’t like to be told they are wrong. They don’t like to be told they are evil. That is the net affect of the screaming fits the left are throwing right now, ‘if you don’t agree that Trump is the evilest thing to ever evil then you are evil!!!’. > > How’d that work for Clinton? Remember the ‘deplorable’ thing? > > The liberals are on a roll though. Just keep ramping it up. Pretty soon everyone outside of L.A. and New York will be a Trump supporter. > > Slee Anyone who paid the slightest bit of attention to Trump’s campaign(which has yet to be at it’s end) knows that shit don’t fly. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/122 "2017-02-07T00:52:40Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > And Bush 43 was just like Hitler, according to folks on this board at the time. Is Trump worse than Hitler? [snip] I’m afraid that is a bit of a straw man, I would not be surprised that the connection was made, but more often than not it was ridiculed or the clear differences pointed at. > **[Bush, Hitler, Godwin, and Assholes Like Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=190669)** > > Okay, I’ve already torn up this interesting Great Debates thread by invoking Godwin’s Law. In a no-doubt fruitless effort to preserve that thread, I will instead boldly forge ahead and lose this argument with its very premise. You can also take... > **[Whereby Diogenes the Cynic defends his "Bush is Hitler" assertion...](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=284552)** > > This has always intrigued me. Often otherwise intelligent people compare Bush to Hitler. In this thread http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=284482 Dio the Cynic does just that. Now Mr. Cynic I am just a lowly poster. I defer to... One that proposed that was Diogenes the Cynic, but most did not agree and his stubbornness and misbehavior got him eventually banned ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/123 "2017-02-07T01:11:34Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I have a point because it isn’t one person. It’s every liberal in the country screaming in frustration that their anointed candidate managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. You know, this isn’t a football game where you get pissed when your team blows it, but it has no larger consequences. Because as Bush the Younger correctly said, elections have consequences. We’re screaming not because Trump beat Hillary and we were rooting for Team Hillary. We’re screaming because 30,000,000 people might lose their health insurance because the Republicans are in power. We’re screaming because Trump might pull us out of the Paris climate accords, at which point they’d likely fall apart, and we’d pretty much be on the glide path to a much hotter world, with the attendant floods, desertification, and other consequences that could cause the deaths of millions. We’re screaming because Trump might start a trade war and throw millions out of work. We _were_ screaming because the Republicans were intending to start selling off the Federal lands where we can go to enjoy the beauty of nature without paying an arm and a leg - but our opposition has been heard, and that bill has been withdrawn. Screaming works, at least some of the time. So yes, we’ll keep on screaming. Deal with it. We weren’t crazy about the Teabaggers screaming back in 2009, but they were certainly within their rights to do so. This is our turn. We’re screaming because the crazy fucks in the White House are going down a path that will make a terror attack more, not less, likely. We’re screaming because Russian rockets are falling on Ukraine, and the President of the United States doesn’t give a good goddamn about it, and in a rather stunning about-face from just a few years ago, neither does the Republican Party. We’re screaming because we’re kinda wondering how much of the old USSR Putin will re-conquer before either Trump or the GOP sees it as a problem. And that’s just a start. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/124 "2017-02-07T01:12:34Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > So what is a person supposed to think - those previous criticisms were totally realistic and Trump is worse, or those previous criticisms were exaggerated, but these current ones are totally realistic. Or maybe, the idea that this represents some kind of existential threat that needs to be shouted about all the time any time and is different than all the other times the union was at stake. What a person is supposed to think is **for themselves**. Every single politician above the level of assistant supervisor of sanitation in the past sixty years has been compared to Hitler. Some of those accusations are more accurate than others. The fact that some people compared Bush and Clinton and Obama to Hitler, said that Bush and Clinton and Obama and Reagan and Bush the Elder and Ford and Carter were cryptofascists or cryptocommunists or what-the-fuck-ever, is background noise. What you need to decide, for yourself, is whether Trump is wrong within those normal parameters or not. For myself, he’s clearly outside of normal parameters. I think US politicians and presidents are generally pretty bad, and none within my lifetime would have escaped war crimes trials were I in charge. But Trump’s way beyond them, presents a danger to our system itself. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/125 "2017-02-07T01:15:15Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > And Bush 43 was just like Hitler, according to folks on this board at the time. I’m sure ‘folks’ on this board - at least two, hence agreement with the plural - said that. But you’d have to produce a bunch of quotes to convince me that that comparison was anything close to widespread here. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/126 "2017-02-07T01:19:50Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > [snip] > > I’m afraid that is a bit of a straw man, I would not be surprised that the connection was made, but more often than not it was ridiculed or the clear differences pointed at. > > [Bush, Hitler, Godwin, and Assholes Like Me - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=190669) > > [Whereby Diogenes the Cynic defends his "Bush is Hitler" assertion... - Great Debates - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=284552) > > One that proposed that was Diogenes the Cynic, but most did not agree and his stubbornness and misbehavior got him eventually banned How is that a strawman exactly? You identified one of the examples that lead to the comparison. You even say that you wouldn’t be surprised if the connection was made. I take it you agree that those comparisons in the past were exaggerated? But this time is different. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/127 "2017-02-07T01:22:45Z")
Perspective and proportion, Bone. That is what your position lacks. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/128 "2017-02-07T01:28:08Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > For myself, he’s clearly outside of normal parameters. I think US politicians and presidents are generally pretty bad, and none within my lifetime would have escaped war crimes trials were I in charge. But Trump’s way beyond them, presents a danger to our system itself. Here is where I think you should consider to apply the brakes. Trump has been in office 2.5 weeks. By your thinking, past presidents were guilty of war crimes or at least close enough to have a trial. But Trump is worse than that already? Bush 43 lying to go to war and getting hundreds of thousands killed is worse than what Trump has done in 2.5 weeks? My analysis is vastly different. If Trump is so bad and a threat to the nation and the world itself, I would think people would be more inclined to do more than speak out at the Oscars. But we’re not there yet. Even with the immigration ban, the country is going through the legal steps to challenge it, and eventually the courts will decide one way or the other. The process will work as it is supposed to, albeit with more rancor. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/129 "2017-02-07T01:32:57Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > “I told Orville and I told Wilbur and now I’m telling you – it just won’t work!!” > > :dubious: > Forgive me if I don’t fall all over the sixty-million-Trump-voters-can’t-be-wrong meme. Guess what? Sixty million Trump voters are so wrong it may cost us the country. Enjoy it. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/130 "2017-02-07T01:42:29Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > How is that a strawman exactly? You identified one of the examples that lead to the comparison. And most, even leftists, did ridicule it. It is a bit like a strawman (notice I did not said that it was totally one) in the sense that you claimed that that folks here (implying many here) did. It was also more related to a cherry pick. Bit of a fallacy too. > [@Bone](#): > > You even say that you wouldn’t be surprised if the connection was made. And I would ridicule it too. Back in those days more than once I made the point that Bush was nowhere close to being a Nazi. > [@Bone](#): > > I take it you agree that those comparisons in the past were exaggerated? But this time is different. It is, nowhere I have seen any apology from Trump about all those tweets that came from [Neo-nazi supporters or sites he frequented](https://thinkprogress.org/3-white-supremacists-on-twitter-that-inspire-donald-trump-8e60a264848#.m79ezcn83). Nor I do remember seeing the Trump supporter in a phone bank that had Nazi tattoos being canned. [Don’t remember Bush also being simpatico with scientific racism](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/9/29/1575870/-Shocking-video-of-Trump-explaining-his-dangerous-theory-that-people-like-him-have-superior-genes) or [plain racism.](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/28/us/politics/donald-trump-housing-race.html) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/131 "2017-02-07T02:22:56Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Perspective and proportion, Bone. That is what your position lacks. There is a position being put forth here that lack perspective and proportion, but not the one **Bone** is putting forth. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/132 "2017-02-07T02:39:47Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Here is where I think you should consider to apply the brakes. Trump has been in office 2.5 weeks. By your thinking, past presidents were guilty of war crimes or at least close enough to have a trial. But Trump is worse than that already? Bush 43 lying to go to war and getting hundreds of thousands killed is worse than what Trump has done in 2.5 weeks? That is not what I said. What Trump has done is not worse than what W did. His potential, what he’s likely to do, is far worse. There was that time when I worked at a store, and every day this asshole would come in and punch me in the nose. God how I hated him. But one day an angry meth-head came staggering in, ranting about how the store was owned by the devil, waving around a chainsaw. The moment he stepped in the door, he’d done nothing as bad as the asshole. But I was still way more afraid of the tweaker than I was of the asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/133 "2017-02-07T04:02:07Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > That is not what I said. What Trump has done is not worse than what W did. His potential, what he’s likely to do, is far worse. Ok. I read it wrong then. And looking at what I wrote, I think I switched a negative in there but I take it you understood my meaning. In any event, my point is simply that it’s not time to raise the barricades just yet, IMO. Speaking out, even at the Oscars, is always fine by me. But consider the reason we have guidance about thread hijacks is the same reason that all ‘fuck Trump’ all the time on all channels isn’t an effective message. ---
**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/134 "2017-02-07T04:18:30Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I would actually watch if every acceptance speech ended with,“Fuck off, Trump”. LOL ! I like your thinking ! ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/135 "2017-02-07T04:38:27Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Ok. I read it wrong then. And looking at what I wrote, I think I switched a negative in there but I take it you understood my meaning. In any event, my point is simply that it’s not time to raise the barricades just yet, IMO. Speaking out, even at the Oscars, is always fine by me. But consider the reason we have guidance about thread hijacks is the same reason that all ‘fuck Trump’ all the time on all channels isn’t an effective message. Well, to the extent it pushes Trump over the edge any faster, it might be worth it. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/136 "2017-02-07T05:32:22Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I have a point because it isn’t one person. It’s every liberal in the country screaming in frustration that their anointed candidate managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. > > Over and over and over… No, you don’t. Did you somehow forget you were against Trump back in November? I’m pretty sure you weren’t against Trump because you thought Clinton was an anointed candidate. So why in the world do you think anyone else was against him for that reason? Trump was so bad that you, a rather hard Republican, couldn’t vote for him. He was so bad that voting for the Party you prefer was not an option for you. And he’s not gotten any better. Of course the people who actually still don’t support him are going to make that known at every opportunity. Of course they are going to call out every action he does that is awful. Our speech is our power. It’s the whole reason freedom of speech even exists! What’s more, he has a huge ego problem and a thin skin. So, more than any other president, our speech against him actually has an impact. He still throws tantrums because people hate him. If he has narcissistic personality disorder, as it so very much seems, then every time he isn’t respected, it creates anxiety and increases stress. Hence, we put pressure on him. Already he’s started throwing people under the bus for the things we’re upset at him for. Bannon becoming part of the National Security committee–he blames that on Bannon now. He also blames the bungling of the Muslim ban on Bannon. He’s already falling back from these positions. **Let me repeat that: two things that everyone yelled at him for, he actually is backing away from.** Because we liberals are actually affecting him. And, yet, you want to vilify us. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/137 "2017-02-07T05:59:45Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > Here is the thing. People don’t like to be told they are wrong. They don’t like to be told they are evil. That is the net affect of the screaming fits the left are throwing right now, ‘if you don’t agree that Trump is the evilest thing to ever evil then you are evil!!!’. > > How’d that work for Clinton? Remember the ‘deplorable’ thing? > > The liberals are on a roll though. Just keep ramping it up. Pretty soon everyone outside of L.A. and New York will be a Trump supporter. > > Slee Yip, that’s why his approval ratings continue to drop–when they started lower than for any other incoming president in the first place. I can’t help but thing you started with your conclusion and then tried to form an argument around it. Because you mix two things up without noticing. The left is “screaming” about Trump. They are attacking Trump. Yet you talk about how they can’t attack Trump supporters. You bring up an example where Trump supporters thought they were being attacked. If what you said was true, then it would be pointless to ever speak out against any politician. It clearly isn’t. And, even if some diehard supporters do see an attack on Trump as an attack on them, you forget that they make up a fraction of those who voted for him. Most Trump voters voted for abortion, party loyalty, or against Clinton. Trump’s true believers are loud, but they aren’t the majority. The vast majority of people who voted for Trump saw the election as a choice between two evils. So why in the world would saying “Trump is evil” alienate them? They agree. The only issue is that they underestimated how bad he’d be. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/138 "2017-02-07T06:51:27Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Actually, if not for the rules, I would indeed be posting fuck Trump sentiments in all threads on the SDMB. It’s not time for “business as usual,” it’s a fight for the soul and survival of our country. This matters a great deal. It’s going to be a long 4-8 years for many of you. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/139 "2017-02-07T07:44:09Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > The appropriate time to speak out against Trump is any time there is a live mike and a camera. Or just a mike. Or an audience, particularly an international audience. Or merely a domestic audience. Or a few people. Or an ear or two. Sign language is appropriate, as well. How does one say “Trump” in sign language? > [@Shodan](#): > > I have a point because it isn’t one person. It’s every liberal in the country screaming in frustration that their anointed candidate managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. I did not want Hillary to be the nominee, as I said repeatedly. Trump is still incompetent. Also, he is even far more corrupt than the Clintons. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973/140 "2017-02-08T00:53:32Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It’s going to be a long 4-8 years for many of you. And what of it? We don’t get to choose the times we live in; we can only choose what we’re going to do about them. And if you’re unclear about why I think we need to do something about them, why this is a Big Fucking Deal that can’t be passed off as business as usual, I think I hit the high points in post #123. While it was addressed to **Shodan** , there’s no reason you can’t respond if you get the urge. That’s how a message board works, after all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreading-the-oscars/778973.md?page=8)