# I'm dreaming of a White Christian... **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 20, 2008, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreaming-of-a-white-christian/478088 "2008-12-20T17:57:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BigNik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/73ab20/32.png) [@BigNik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigNik)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreaming-of-a-white-christian/478088/21 "2008-12-22T00:35:20Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > “The Xmas I replaced the broken toilet bowl” is a nice title for a short story. I’m just saying. Just wait. My handyman skills are few. I try, but it’ll often take me two shots to work out which end of the power drill I need to be holding. I’m somewhat anticipating still needing to call out a plumber on the grounds that after I’ve been at it for three hours the toilet bowl will be: [ul] [li]still broken,[/li][li]covered in concrete, and[/li][li]on fire.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreaming-of-a-white-christian/478088/22 "2008-12-22T00:35:57Z")
> [@BigNik](#): > > Not a fan of Christmas myself. Every year I forget the promise I made to myself to buy 31 days’ worth of tinned food at the end of November and wait out the zombpocalypse of shopping in December. > … > This derailed her. “Why? We haven’t even had lunch yet.” > > Sigh. > … Thank you for sharing your story. It was quite funny and had me laughing, especially the “We haven’t even had lunch yet” line. If nothing else at least your annual semi-torture has given you an excellent story to relate. I hope I see more of your posts. Jim ---
**Author:** ![BigNik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/73ab20/32.png) [@BigNik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigNik)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreaming-of-a-white-christian/478088/23 "2008-12-22T00:49:53Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > If nothing else at least your annual semi-torture has given you an excellent story to relate. Sorry if it’s derailing the thread, but ever spent the day in the hospital’s casualty department rather than at a family Christmas? Deliberately? I’d been dreading it for weeks, and as soon as I arrived at my great aunt’s place I saw my opportunity. My nephews had shot their Nerf crossbow darts into a tree. I climbed it, got the darts out, gave it some thought and dropped out of the tree. Severely sprained ankle. Seven hours waiting for an X-ray. Six weeks of rehab. Absolutely worth it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreaming-of-a-white-christian/478088/24 "2008-12-22T11:35:21Z")
Scrooge. Look, buy kiddies presents, enjoy some comfort foods and hang out with your friends, possibly watching football. Sing like a real or fake drunk. What is not to like about it? You got plans this gets in the way of? Nobody gets out of here alive. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreaming-of-a-white-christian/478088/25 "2008-12-22T12:08:02Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > I really dislike Christmas (no big shocker, I know, to those of you I’ve discussed religion with generally), mainly because it’s impossible to ignore. At school, for example, my immediate boss, a nice fellow, holds a party around this time, which I kinda hate and kinda have to attend, or at least show my face at, and I’m always more of a curmudgeon that I really want to be. People sit around a table, eating and drinking and singing Christmas songs, none of which I know, care about or am unoffended by, and I always seem like such an unpleasant nut-case. I sympathise. Fortunately my department hold a Xmas meal at a decent restaurant and there’s no singing. **I think too much alcohol ruins such an event** (I’m teetotal, so drunken singing soon bores me.) I don’t mind pulling a cracker (though I won’t wear the paper hat) and this year I had an interesting chat with a colleague about his days in the Navy visiting Hong Kong. I also told a couple of jokes to the table (on request). > [@BigNik](#): > > Nevertheless, my mother gets very, very upset every year when I tell her that no, I don’t want to catch a train for two hours each way for a family Christmas which I hate being at, so after the first few blow-ups I usually agree to suffer through it. > … > The deficiencies of my mind are probably her second most favourite topic. Second only behind my failures as a son because I don’t call her or visit her often enough. A Jewish chap calls his mother. “How are you, Mum?” “I haven’t eaten for weeks. :eek:” “Oh no! -are you ill?” "I’m not ill - I didn’t want to answer the phone to you with my mouth full. :smack: " ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreaming-of-a-white-christian/478088/26 "2008-12-22T12:28:39Z")
Why don’t you try not acting like a jerk? We all encounter customs we don’t take part in. A nice person smiles, gives a friendly reply, and most importantly _doesn’t try to ruin the joy of the people celebrating it_. You may not like Christmas, but for millions of people it is the highlight of the year. There is no excuse for crapping on someone else’s happiness. Yesterday was winter solstice, and around here many people celebrate with a nice yummy meal of roast puppy dog. When I have people ask me my solstice plans, do I scowl and say “Certainly not eating Lassie!” Of course not. I just say that I don’t have plans. How hard is that? I agree the problem doesn’t seem like it is Christmas, but rather that you just aren’t a people person. That’s okay. But you are in the minority here, and the world isn’t set up for anti-social people. You gotta find a way to live in this world. If you are always fighting against it and letting piles of resentment and rage build up, this is just going to keep causing your problems. And remember, Miss Manners taught us that being polite is not about being nice. It is far more often about having a ritualized, easily understood and socially acceptable way of being mean. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreaming-of-a-white-christian/478088/27 "2008-12-22T12:48:12Z")
My job is to have a jolly time celebrating shit I find offensive at worst, a gigantic bore at best? I’ll try to get with your program. Sorry I offended you. Please come over to my house where we will engage in coprophilia, urolagnia and fish-fucking. That’s not a suggestion or an invitation, btw–please consider that to be a part of your job. As far as “how hard is not telling people vapid pap when you obviously do have plans for December 21st?” it’s easy. As easy as lying. ---
**Author:** ![kferr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71e660/32.png) [@kferr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kferr)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreaming-of-a-white-christian/478088/28 "2008-12-22T12:58:20Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > … and kinda have to attend … Here’s where you’ve screwed up. If you don’t **really** have to attend then don’t. I’m a christmas hater too and just flatly refuse to take part. When asked why I explain that as an atheist the religious aspects (Christian, Roman, Pagan, take your pick) mean nothing to me, and that I find the secular aspect repulsive. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreaming-of-a-white-christian/478088/29 "2008-12-22T13:11:22Z")
My office is opposite the room the party takes place in, and everybody can see me entering and leaving my office. Since I have an official role in the administration, I probably need to come by to “officially” welcome people, which I’m willing enough to do, but I wish it were more of a holiday/vacation/end-of-semester party instead of this superstitious glurgefest in which people are vocalizing (usually off-key) their belief in angels, God(s), holy virgins and other stuff and nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreaming-of-a-white-christian/478088/30 "2008-12-22T13:49:11Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > My job is to have a jolly time celebrating shit I find offensive at worst, a gigantic bore at best? You ever think that maybe for a moment that it’s not always about you? A holiday party takes what, a couple hours? You can’t be bored for a couple of hours without turning it into some kind of deeply personal crusade? You can’t just bite your tongue for a few and let other people have their fun? Well, do whatever you like. But don’t go saying it’s not fair that you don’t get the benefits of society (the promotions, etc.) when think you are above doing the work that we all do to live in a happy and harmonious social world. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreaming-of-a-white-christian/478088/31 "2008-12-22T13:53:50Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > some kind of deeply personal crusade. I’m sorry. I thought I was in “Mundane Pointless Stuff I Must Share.” Apparently I was in “Deeply Personal Crusades.” My bad. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreaming-of-a-white-christian/478088/32 "2008-12-22T14:02:30Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > You ever think that maybe for a moment that it’s not always about you? A holiday party takes what, a couple hours? You can’t be bored for a couple of hours without turning it into some kind of deeply personal crusade? You can’t just bite your tongue for a few and let other people have their fun? > > Well, do whatever you like. But don’t go saying it’s not fair that you don’t get the benefits of society (the promotions, etc.) when think you are above doing the work that we all do to live in a happy and harmonious social world. Wow, I don’t mind Holiday parties, but I still find your post offensive. The guy is bored with them and annoyed and disturbed by the vaguely religious trappings. He should not feel pressured to attend. He is an atheist as he stated and grew up in a Jewish household, not one that celebrated Christmas even in a lax or strictly commercial way. It is bullshit he feels pressured to attend. He shouldn’t. I got my self in a world of shit with my Division officer back when I was in the Navy. They had a planned MLK ceremony on the hangar bay of the carrier. No problem, I respect MLK and what he did for our country. Then I found out some creepy Minister of the Crystal Palace was going to lead a prayer under a giant grossly lit up cross and I refused to attend. I was accused of being racists and a malcontent for not just going along with what the other thousands of sailors did. It did not help that the Division Officer was Black and apparently religious. So no **even sven** , your attitude is not at all reasonable. Jim ---
**Author:** ![burundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@burundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burundi)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreaming-of-a-white-christian/478088/33 "2008-12-22T14:15:46Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > My job is to have a jolly time celebrating shit I find offensive at worst, a gigantic bore at best? I’ll try to get with your program. _Everybody_ has parts of their job that they hate. Maybe it’s doing budget reports, maybe it’s dealing with idiot clients–in your case, it seems to be smiling through the annual inanity of a Christmas party. Suck it up, buttercup. Don’t think of it as a social event, think of it as a job-related duty, like a performance review or a monthly committee meeting. You might think your annual performance review is the dumbest thing in the world, but you’re not allowed to act like a jackass during it. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreaming-of-a-white-christian/478088/34 "2008-12-22T15:54:06Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > You ever think that maybe for a moment that it’s not always about you? A holiday party takes what, a couple hours? You can’t be bored for a couple of hours without turning it into some kind of deeply personal crusade? You can’t just bite your tongue for a few and let other people have their fun? > > Well, do whatever you like. But don’t go saying it’s not fair that you don’t get the benefits of society (the promotions, etc.) when think you are above doing the work that we all do to live in a happy and harmonious social world. > [@burundi](#): > > _Everybody_ has parts of their job that they hate. Maybe it’s doing budget reports, maybe it’s dealing with idiot clients–in your case, it seems to be smiling through the annual inanity of a Christmas party. Suck it up, buttercup. Don’t think of it as a social event, think of it as a job-related duty, like a performance review or a monthly committee meeting. You might think your annual performance review is the dumbest thing in the world, but you’re not allowed to act like a jackass during it. Cripes, guys. Where in **pseudotriton’s** posts does he say that he dumps the cake on the floor, tears down the decorations and sulks in the corner? > [@](#): > > …it’s just an hour every year, I know, but it’s my least favorite hour at work, including the hours I spend grading freshman placement exams. > [@](#): > > If it was a really big deal, I would talk to my boss, I would explain that it’s not a part of my culture, and this would be in the Pit. But it’s just an hour, and it’s mundane and pointless. > [@](#): > > Since I have an official role in the administration, I probably need to come by to “officially” welcome people, which I’m willing enough to do… It DOES sound like he’s sucking it up, buttercups. He comes here instead and gripes about the part of his job that he hates, and gets crapped on for not being a Stepford employee? What the hell is this forum for, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreaming-of-a-white-christian/478088/35 "2008-12-22T17:38:58Z")
Thanks for getting that small point, **Jenaroph**. I think this thread would be a fine bit of evidence to cite if anyone needs mild but persistent instances of ways that Christians tend to assume that their personal beliefs can and should be imposed on others. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreaming-of-a-white-christian/478088/36 "2008-12-22T17:39:55Z")
The problem, as I see it, is not that he has to attend the thing and pretend to be gracious… The problem is that he is being _pressured to sing religious songs_ and say what his favorite Christmas song is. That’s totally inappropriate. Nobody should be pressured to sing at work, unless singing is part of the job description. It’s really embarrassing for a lot of us! (Though I will sing Happy Birthday.) And nobody should be pressured to participate in religious activities that they don’t wish to be a part of. I think it may be hard for a lot of Christians–even non-religious Christians–to fathom that a lot of stuff that they consider neutral or non-sectarian seems distinctly “Christian” to the rest of us. (I could give a non-Christmas related example or two, but I don’t want to derail the thread too much.) So a nominal Jew might feel damn uncomfortable singing a song that seems like “oh, just a Christmas carol, doesn’t mean anything” to the rest of you. I’m not saying that Jewish people generally feel offended by religious Christmas carols. I’m certainly not. Or even that Jewish people usually shy away from singing them. I have no idea. But you all should respect that it’s not unreasonable that a Jew (or an atheist) might not feel comfortable singing about how the baby Jesus was the son of God and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreaming-of-a-white-christian/478088/37 "2008-12-22T17:46:00Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > Cripes, guys. Where in **pseudotriton’s** posts does he say that he dumps the cake on the floor, tears down the decorations and sulks in the corner? > > It DOES sound like he’s sucking it up, buttercups. He comes here instead and gripes about the part of his job that he hates, and gets crapped on for not being a Stepford employee? What the hell is this forum for, anyway? I agree with this post! And **pseudotriton’s** frustration. It sounds like he’s sucking it up and taking part, but it’s 1) really frakking annoying when people ask you to sing or pray and you don’t want to and 2) really frakking annoying for people to pressure you when you have already stated that you don’t know any of the songs/prayers. Hey, **even sven** how about you put yourself in this situation: You’re a teetotaller Baptist and your co-workers are pish-poshing your insistence on drinking only seltzer water. They suggest you’re being a spoilsport or a stick-in-the-mud for not drinking alcohol to the toasts like everybody else. “C’mon **sven** , _everyone_ imbibes a little at Christmas time!” And then you spend the rest of the evening fending people off who keep buying you drinks and insisting you make the next toast. Uncool. It’s never cool to keep pressuring someone who has said “no, thank you.” When it comes to cultural customs, there is a difference between _sharing_ with the uninitiated, and _forcing_ it on the uninitiated. I was invited to go my friend’s son’s barmitzvah and it was really cool. Everyone was happy to have me as a guest and someone kept leaning over to explain things as it went along. It was joyous and I had a fun time even though it wasn’t my faith and I could only take part as a spectator. It was cool. On the opposite end of the spectrum, once as a dinner guest, my host’s parents _insisted_ that I, as the guest, lead them in prayer before dinner. I’m agnostic and had no idea what they expected or what to do. But they would not let it drop. Asking me to come up with a prayer? Best case scenario is that I _might_ be able to remember the serenity prayer from having seen it on an inspirational poster with kittens on it. I was mortified, my host was mortified, and the other guests were embarassed on my behalf. Everyone felt awkward, except the parents who were glowering at me. They just seemed angry. That was not cool. **pseudotriton’s** seems to be sucking it up just fine, but don’t tell him he’s an ass for not participating in songs (of worship) or not knowing them and feeling pissed when people twist his arm. I think it’s fine and fair for him to rant about how much he dreads the holidays because people make him feel uncomfortable. If someone declines an invitation to sing or pray, after one cheerful “are you sure?”, just let it go. ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreaming-of-a-white-christian/478088/38 "2008-12-22T18:56:31Z")
> [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](#): > > When it comes to cultural customs, there is a difference between _sharing_ with the uninitiated, and _forcing_ it on the uninitiated. I was invited to go my friend’s son’s barmitzvah and it was really cool. Everyone was happy to have me as a guest and someone kept leaning over to explain things as it went along. It was joyous and I had a fun time even though it wasn’t my faith and I could only take part as a spectator. It was cool. Ding. I empathise with **pseudotriton** here. I think those that are christmas celebrants don’t notice how omnipresent it is. It’s holiday cheer to some, but to those of us who neitehr celebrate nor particularly like the holiday, it’s a constant bash. I can’t listen to the radio without hearing xmas greetings, commercials, or music (even on Word Jazz last night, I got to listen to ‘A visit from saint nicholas’.) I go into Borders to relax and peruse some books, as I do pretty much every other week, and I’m distracted to the point of frustration by the ham-handed guitarists that have been brought in to play xmas (not even generic holiday, but specifically xmas) music and chat with the crowds. Of course, we could say something about it. And look like a jerk. And, frankly, not be listened to. I did it for a few years; made comments about how I felt such things weren’t very appropriate, or distracting. I was looked at like I had two heads, and told that ‘well, it’s only for a few days…’ I doubt any secular annoyance would be given the same berth. I think the great Maurice J. Minnifeild said it best when he said, “You know that’s the nature of a family holiday, to make a single man feel disenfranchised. You’re made to feel like a hungry vagrant with your nose pressed up against a window staring at somebody else’s dinner.” There are those of us that are alone, and the omnipresense of a holiday that purports inclusion, but really just seems to be about exclusion, can make one feel downright frustrated and angry. My two drachma on the whole issue, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreaming-of-a-white-christian/478088/39 "2008-12-23T14:03:57Z")
I’ve always found that the best defense is a witty retort. The people that can make you laugh are the ones that can dodge expectations effortlessly and without offending people. I’m not one of those people, but if know anyone I’d ask them for some assistance. What do you say to a group of people demanding you sing when you really don’t want to? \ and back out of the room gracefully, with a huge (fake?) smile on your face as the room disintegrates in merry laughter. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreaming-of-a-white-christian/478088/40 "2008-12-23T22:20:37Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Someone usually says, “How about ‘Come Ye, O Faithful’? That’s a beauty,” and then someone sings it (I think that’s a real Christmas song, no?) and I spend the whole time fending off suggestions that I sing some other song, or join in the singing of some group song like the 12 Days of Christmas which if I ever knew the words to it, I’ve tried bleaching out my brain. There might be a song called _Come Ye, O Faithful_, but the one “everybody” knows is \ ***O Come, All Ye Faithful** (Adeste Fidelis). \* [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreaming-of-a-white-christian/478088.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-dreaming-of-a-white-christian/478088.md?page=3)