# I'm either going to cry, or take a baseball bat to this computer... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 30, 2005, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-either-going-to-cry-or-take-a-baseball-bat-to-this-computer/287486 "2005-01-30T22:17:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-either-going-to-cry-or-take-a-baseball-bat-to-this-computer/287486/41 "2005-02-01T23:01:19Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > [Fuck you](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5716283&highlight=garageband#post5716283), Mac-ass. Too bad you couldn’t restrain yourself and been a little more civil. I might have gotten you a discount on the new MacMini that you jonesing for. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-either-going-to-cry-or-take-a-baseball-bat-to-this-computer/287486/42 "2005-02-01T23:08:36Z")
> [@UncleRojelio](#): > > Too bad you couldn’t restrain yourself and been a little more civil. Too bad you can’t be less condescending. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-either-going-to-cry-or-take-a-baseball-bat-to-this-computer/287486/43 "2005-02-01T23:11:37Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Like what? The only Windows-only software I know of offhand is some program to help dentists maintain X-ray records and billing information for their patients. Games don’t count as software? Also, you’ll find that once you stray from the beaten path of commonly-used apps, your Mac options start to dwindle and sometimes disappear completely. For example, if you’re learning about electronics and want to use your computer to program a PIC microcontroller (used in robotics, model railroading, and many other hobbies and applications), and have a PC, you can either buy a programmer for the chips, or build one yourself from any one of dozens of different designs online. The programmer plugs into your computer and free software is used to flash the chip. A free development suite is used to write the code that is burned on to the PIC. And what are your options on the Mac side? Well, before OSX, there were a couple of kludgy, poorly-documented hacks that often didn’t work, along with one (not free) program to flash the devices. Since OSX? Absolutely nothing. Really, there are plenty of valid reasons to choose either platform, and there is absolutely no reason to barge into to every thread even tangentially computer-related to make snarky, one-line comments about people’s choices, especially when you don’t know what factors went in to making those decisions. Such comments do little more than incite tired platform wars. Besides that, it hardly seems like an effective strategy if you really do want people to switch. I mean, if you were trying to find help with a problem on a subject you knew little about, whose advice would you be most likely to follow: (A) the guy who understands your problem and is patiently trying to help, or (B) the guy who isn’t helping and keeps telling you that you’re ignorant for owning the subject of your problem in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-either-going-to-cry-or-take-a-baseball-bat-to-this-computer/287486/44 "2005-02-01T23:13:26Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Too bad you can’t be less condescending. You haven’t given me one good reason why I should be. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-either-going-to-cry-or-take-a-baseball-bat-to-this-computer/287486/45 "2005-02-01T23:20:27Z")
I really don’t see the necessity for telling Windows users to switch to a Mac. If you’re inclined to try it, the price-point has gotten good and I suspect you’ll like the experience, but to anyone who says they have good and sufficient reason to sticking with the Windows platform, I take your word for it. And I agree that it’s really insulting to Windows users to imply that you have to abandon platform just to be safe from infections. Save all of your documents (including browser Bookmarks to a _bootable, restorable backup_). Being a Mac person, I’m partial to Retrospect for either platform, but other competing products will do as long as you can throw away your current hard drive and boot your environment from your backup drive. Don’t try to keep your OS backup current: only run it just after installing the OS onto a completely blank reformatted HD. After backing up, then and only then connect to the internet; download, but do not install, any and all official Microsoft OS upgrade packs. Burn them to CD. Erase hard drive, restore from pristine backup. Install OS upgrades. Repeat process for any applications you install. Never install apps to the OS that actually connects to the internet, always nuke that one and restore from pristine and install to _that_ instead. If you install apps that you download, as opposed to buying shrinkwrapped from known manufacturers, keep an additional clone backup of your pristine backup, and test the new app for awhile to verify that no trojans or infections have set up shop as a consequence of running the installer, and only then restore again from the intermediate backup and backup to the final pristine, thus adding the app to your permanent sw configuration. Back up your user-created documents separately, always saving them to a D drive, etc., rather than to the same volume as your OS. Run this backup often. But don’t open any files other than plain-text files that you yourself did not create except with compatible software known to be free of the ability to execute possibly infectious macros or malicious code exploiting overrun buffers. OpenOffice is a good alternative to MS Office, for example. Actually, it’s a good idea to open any downloaded file in a raw text editor and search for suspicious path strings which might indicate embedded viral or other hidden executable material. If possible, run an emulated environment in an emulator that supports networking, such as Basilisk II, and make your principal internet connections there rather than through Windows; run browser and email software native to the emulated environment and then test downloads for malicious content there and only after verifying that they are safe copy them to the Windows-native environment. Use an emulated environment that allows you to utilize a different IP than the one native to your windows environment. Turn off file sharing and install a good firewall that requires you to turn on each port specifically in order for it to be enabled. Turn off each port when not in immediate use. Do not maintain an ongoing perpetual connection to the internet, connect only as needed on a task-by-task basis. Do that and keep at least three good solid antivirus packages up-to-date and scan after each internet session —McAfee, Norton, and Panda, for instance —and there’s really no reason to be overly concerned with vulnerabilties in the Windows environment, especially if you know which logic board contain your BIOS and how to erase&flash or replace it if need be…having a spare copy of your model’s motherboard or BIOS chip daughercard is probably a good idea, I guess. Where was I? Anyway, as I said, there’s absolutely no reason any halfway intelligent person who knows how to protect their PC should be haunted by viruses and spyware, or taunted with “get a Mac”. Oh, and Bluetooth, I forgot Bluetooth. Cellphone viruses can be a vector to spread PC viruses via Bluetooth, so maybe disable Bluetooth… ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-either-going-to-cry-or-take-a-baseball-bat-to-this-computer/287486/46 "2005-02-01T23:27:26Z")
> [@UncleRojelio](#): > > You haven’t given me one good reason why I should be. You reap what you sew. Shouldn’t be a condescending ass if you expect civility in return. Of the four (that I know about) Mac users in this thread, two ( **yosemite** and **rjung** ) are being civil. Make that five now that **AHunter** has joined us. For **rjung** , civility is unusual. Must you take up his slack? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-either-going-to-cry-or-take-a-baseball-bat-to-this-computer/287486/47 "2005-02-01T23:29:03Z")
Damn homonyms! ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-either-going-to-cry-or-take-a-baseball-bat-to-this-computer/287486/48 "2005-02-01T23:32:41Z")
> [@neutron star](#): > > Games don’t count as software? I think few will dispute that the hardcore gamer should go with a PC. > [@](#): > > Also, you’ll find that once you stray from the beaten path of commonly-used apps, your Mac options start to dwindle and sometimes disappear completely. That’s true, but a lot of people get around that with Virtual PC, or have a “spare” PC around for such uses, and keep the Mac for general use (and most importantly, Internet surfing). Or, they just have a PC. :shrug: But for most people, truly, either platform will do. They do some web surfing, MP3s, connect to their iPod, word processing, a little bit with the digital camera, and they can do that just as well on the Mac as on a PC. I’d guess that the vast majority of computer users fall into this category. A lot of them are now finding that the Mac is something that they _can_ do, and they are delighted with the switch. But, as said before, there’s no reason why people _have_ to change platforms, as long as they don’t mind maintaining their PC and always keeping it properly protected. ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-either-going-to-cry-or-take-a-baseball-bat-to-this-computer/287486/49 "2005-02-02T00:09:16Z")
> [@VenusProbe](#): > > I’ve never understood why the mac fanboys always feel the need to post such crap… > > :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: I’m not a “mac fanboy”. My self-esteem isn’t derived from the types of computers that I own or the car that I drive. I’ve been building, repairing and programming computers for many years. I’m one of the weird people who can read schematics, interpret memory dumps and understand all the technical crap in the manuals. That said, there is no reason that a normal person should be expected to be a hardware or software engineer in order to use a computer. Personal computers should be appliances. A user should be able to buy it, plug it in, and use it without having to learn the technical aspects of the hardware and software. No computer on the market is perfect. They all have weaknesses and design deficiencies. That doesn’t mean that some aren’t better than others, for specific uses or users. Try asking a group of computer technicians and engineers about the unpaid technical support that they often provide to friends and family. Their number one aggravation is the Intel/Microsoft PC, with its viruses, worms, adware, spyware, nonstop procession of security vulnerabilities, and generally poor design. They can spend hours cleaning all the crap off a PC and making sure that the software is current and running properly, only to have to do it all over again 3 or 6 months later. These are the people who often tell their non-technical friends and relatives to “Get a Mac”. It saves everyone involved a substantial amount of time and pain/suffering. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-either-going-to-cry-or-take-a-baseball-bat-to-this-computer/287486/50 "2005-02-02T00:44:14Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > I’ve been building, repairing and programming computers for many years. As have I. > [@](#): > > _there is no reason that a normal person should be expected to be a hardware or software engineer in order to use a computer._ I’m certainly not an engineer. > [@](#): > > - Personal computers should be appliances.\* In your opinion. > [@](#): > > _A user should be able to buy it, plug it in, and use it without having to learn the technical aspects of the hardware and software._ I just rely on common sence and years of experience. Other that that Norton Ghost glitch I mentioned earlier, I never had a serious problem. > [@](#): > > - These are the people who often tell their non-technical friends and relatives to “Get a Mac”. It saves everyone involved a substantial amount of time and pain/suffering.\* Then save it for your non-technical friends and relatives, don’t spout it on a messageboard full of strangers. You never know when one of your assumptions will make you look like an ass. ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-either-going-to-cry-or-take-a-baseball-bat-to-this-computer/287486/51 "2005-02-02T00:51:19Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Then save it for your non-technical friends and relatives, don’t spout it on a messageboard full of strangers. You never know when one of your assumptions will make you look like an ass. Try rereading the post that started this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-either-going-to-cry-or-take-a-baseball-bat-to-this-computer/287486/52 "2005-02-02T01:00:18Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > Try rereading the post that started this thread. Yes, getting a Mac is certainly a solution to spyware problems but I doubt it’s the one **Floyd** is after. Keep your semantic games to yourself. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-either-going-to-cry-or-take-a-baseball-bat-to-this-computer/287486/53 "2005-02-02T01:27:06Z")
> [@neutron star](#): > > Games don’t count as software? You mean like [Postal 2?](http://www.insidemacgames.com/reviews/view.php?ID=553) Or [Doom 3?](http://www.insidemacgames.com/previews/view.php?ID=179) Or [Call of Duty?](http://www.insidemacgames.com/reviews/view.php?ID=542) Or [Rainbow 6: Athena Sword?](http://www.insidemacgames.com/reviews/view.php?ID=543) Or [World of Warcraft?](http://www.insidemacgames.com/reviews/view.php?ID=541) [quote=neutron star] For example, if you’re learning about electronics and want to use your computer to program a PIC microcontroller (used in robotics, model railroading, and many other hobbies and applications), and have a PC, you can either buy a programmer for the chips, or build one yourself from any one of dozens of different designs online. … And what are your options on the Mac side? Well, before OSX, there were a couple of kludgy, poorly-documented hacks that often didn’t work, along with one (not free) program to flash the devices. Since OSX? Absolutely nothing. Funny, I found [this thread](http://macslash.org/article.pl?sid=04/01/29/1336213&mode=thread) on the topic after three seconds with Google. > [@neutron star](#): > > Besides that, it hardly seems like an effective strategy if you really do want people to switch. I mean, if you were trying to find help with a problem on a subject you knew little about, whose advice would you be most likely to follow: (A) the guy who understands your problem and is patiently trying to help, or (B) the guy who isn’t helping and keeps telling you that you’re ignorant for owning the subject of your problem in the first place? “Doctor, it hurts when I use Windows.” “Then don’t use Windows.” We’re not talking about a problem with a specific application, or a particular sound card – we’re talking about a [fundamental (security) problem in the OS itself.](http://www.techuser.net/winsecurity.html) To pretend otherwise is merely whistling in the dark. > [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > For **rjung,** civility is unusual. “Do not be angry with me if I tell you the truth.” –Socrates ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-either-going-to-cry-or-take-a-baseball-bat-to-this-computer/287486/54 "2005-02-02T03:06:42Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > We’re not talking about a problem with a specific application, or a particular sound card – we’re talking about a [fundamental (security) problem in the OS itself.](http://www.techuser.net/winsecurity.html) Not much of a problem, if you ask me. I’ve had exactly one virus in 16 years. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Side\_of\_the\_Floyd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bb73d2/32.png) [@Dark\_Side\_of\_the\_Floyd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dark_Side_of_the_Floyd)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-either-going-to-cry-or-take-a-baseball-bat-to-this-computer/287486/55 "2005-02-02T03:47:09Z")
Yeah, I’m currently not in the financial position to purchase a new computer, be it PC or Mac. The dialling out programs bother me more because they’re **annoying**. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-either-going-to-cry-or-take-a-baseball-bat-to-this-computer/287486/56 "2005-02-02T06:47:00Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Not much of a problem, if you ask me. I’ve had exactly one virus in 16 years. Why so many? 🙂 And what’s your hourly rate? I’m curious how much time and money you spent maintaining firewalls and updating anti-virus programs and running spyware removal tools over those 16 years… ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-either-going-to-cry-or-take-a-baseball-bat-to-this-computer/287486/57 "2005-02-02T14:51:47Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Not much of a problem, if you ask me. I’ve had exactly one virus in 16 years. Hey! You beat me by one! The suprising fact? I use a PC! Always have, always will. If one is smart, spyware and viruses can easily be avoidd, with very little time and effort. I have antivirus always on (and scna every couple of weeks), I use a web-based email, I have a firewall, and run spybot once a week. That’s all. How much time have I “wasted”, well…maybe a few hours installing the programs, and five minutes a week to run spybot, five minutes every other week for antivirus. Now, of those 16 years, only five really qualify, since before that I wasnever on the internet. So let’s do some math: 1/12 hour every week \* 52 weeks a year \* five years = 21 2/3 hours (round to 22) 1/24 hour every week \* 52 weeks a year \* five years = 10 1/12 hours (round to 10) Plus…let’s be generous and say a total of 24 hours of added time for installation, upgrades, and that sort of thing. Total hours: 56 (Hell, let’s round it to 60.) 22 years \* 365 days a year \*24 hours a day = 192,720 hours lived. 60/192,720 = 0.00031 = 0.03$ of my life dedicated to keeping my PC clean. Compared to the fact that I have spent over ten times that amount on the toilet, I’m OK with that. (I used a VERY small figure of five minutes a day on the can.) ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-either-going-to-cry-or-take-a-baseball-bat-to-this-computer/287486/58 "2005-02-02T17:05:15Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Why so many? 🙂 T’was a stupid mistake. This was on an XT clone so it wasn’t even Windows problem. > [@](#): > > _And what’s your hourly rate? I’m curious how much time and money you spent maintaining firewalls and updating anti-virus programs and running spyware removal tools over those 16 years…_ Negligible. My anti-virus and anti-spyware tools are free ones that run/update themselves while I’m sleeping. My current firewall is a router that was paid for and installed by a friend who runs a small networking firm. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-either-going-to-cry-or-take-a-baseball-bat-to-this-computer/287486/59 "2005-02-02T21:27:52Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > You mean like [Postal 2?](http://www.insidemacgames.com/reviews/view.php?ID=553) Or [Doom 3?](http://www.insidemacgames.com/previews/view.php?ID=179) Or [Call of Duty?](http://www.insidemacgames.com/reviews/view.php?ID=542) Or [Rainbow 6: Athena Sword?](http://www.insidemacgames.com/reviews/view.php?ID=543) Or [World of Warcraft?](http://www.insidemacgames.com/reviews/view.php?ID=541) I mean like something even close to 10% of the games that get released for Windows, not just a few of the most popular games. > [@](#): > > Funny, I found this thread on the topic after three seconds with Google. I stand (semi) corrected, then. That thread has a couple (literally, two) people who have had some success programming their chips with a Windows program through VirtualPC using a Keyspan USB/Serial adapter. One of them said it wouldn’t work on his G5, though. So, I suppose if you want to spend more money on an inferior option for which you’ll have to buy extra hardware, Mac is a valid choice here… > [@](#): > > “Doctor, it hurts when I use Windows.” > “Then don’t use Windows.” Actually, I think it’s closer to: Customer: “I bought my brand new Chevy a few months ago, and I love it, except for this inexpensive part that broke a couple times requiring repair.” Mechanic: “I’m not going to help you fix that shit! Just throw it out and buy a damn Toyota!” My point is not only that computers are still expensive and hardly something most people can run out and buy just because **rjung** said so, but also that many people (including myself) _do_ weigh the pros and cons and make an informed decision on which platform they want. It may very well be worth Windows’ security risk to Joe ModelRailroader to be able to program his PICs on a platform proven by the thousands of others who have used it for the same purpose (and the only platform supported by Microchip, manufacturer of the PIC), rather than the platform on which two guys on Slashdot managed to get it working. This is a valid decision. By the same token, Jane MovieMaker might dislike her Windows options for digital video editing and decide to go with a Mac depsite the derth of games and speciality software. She decided that Final Cut Pro was worth any inconvenience she might have to face. This, too, is a valid decision. When you yell “GET A MAC! GET A MAC!” to everyone, no matter what their situation, and even when you _don’t know_ their situation, it’s annoying and hardly helpful. ---
**Author:** ![Tool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df705f/32.png) [@Tool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tool)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-either-going-to-cry-or-take-a-baseball-bat-to-this-computer/287486/60 "2005-02-02T21:36:16Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > T’was a stupid mistake. This was on an XT clone so it wasn’t even Windows problem. Windows was not around in the days of an XT computer. DOS ruled in them days. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-either-going-to-cry-or-take-a-baseball-bat-to-this-computer/287486.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-either-going-to-cry-or-take-a-baseball-bat-to-this-computer/287486.md?page=4)