# I'm entitled to my dating criteria, so back off! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 4, 2003, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591 "2003-09-04T20:25:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/1 "2003-09-04T20:25:01Z")
In the latest Queer Eye [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=208758&pagenumber=2) in Cafe Society, I opined that as a generally useful guideline, guys who can’t dance aren’t good in bed. In a misguided attempt to defend her husband’s honor, **Javamaven1** wrote > [@](#): > > For someone as intelligent, well-educated, well-travelled, and as worldly as you are, I can’t believe you can make this sweeping generalization about people who cannot dance. > > Hmmm. I guess sensitivity, communication, and attention to your partner’s needs all take second place to shakin’ yer ass on a dance floor to getting to that all-important, toe-curling orgasm. I have had just the bloody limit with people telling me that my opinions are too general. For one thing, it’s a damned guideline, not the friggin’ Second Law of Thermodynamics, so, yes, there will be exceptions. Second, unless **Javamaven1** has slept with every guy I’ve slept with, she doesn’t know what she’s talking about because she hasn’t had the experiences I’ve had. Third, the elements I find attractive in a man are very likely not the same elements she finds attractive, so who the hell is she to tell me that my criteria are wrong? She values “sensitivity, communication, and attention to your partner’s needs”, but I prefer things a little. . . rougher. I’m glad that **JustPlainBryan** sexes **Javamaven1** the way she wants. . . that’s great, but she, and anybody else, had better not tell me that they know my wants and preferences better than I do. I find that guys who don’t dance can’t bring it the way I like it. That’s MY bloody opinion borne from years of experience in the field–nobody else gets a vote. ---
**Author:** ![Anamorphic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anamorphic/32/3057_2.png) [@Anamorphic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anamorphic)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/2 "2003-09-04T20:43:18Z")
Of course you’re allowed your own dating guidelines. And if you’d stated it on its own, it probably wouldn’t be much of a problem. But when you say: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*What’s more, one’s ability on the dance floor, IMO, is directly related to one’s ability as a partner in bed. “If they can’t dance, don’t take 'em home,” is my motto. \*\* in _direct response_ to someone admitting they’re not a very good dancer, well, one doesn’t really need to understand the intricacies of the transitive property to know you just greatly insulted them. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/3 "2003-09-04T20:51:12Z")
Doesn’t sound like a guideline to me, sounds more like a generalization. Guideline: I generally don’t take home guys who can’t dance, because the men I’ve brought home in the past that couldn’t dance haven’t been too good in bed. Generalization: Men who can’t dance aren’t good in bed. The fact that you said it’s directly related, I believe puts you in the generalization camp. Not to mention the fact that it’s a damn stupid generalization. Do you also “take home” guys according to their shoe size? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/4 "2003-09-04T20:53:55Z")
> [@](#): > > in direct response to someone admitting they’re not a very good dancer, well, one doesn’t really need to understand the intricacies of the transitive property to know you just greatly insulted them. Piffle. The post I replied to was in general terms talking about people who can’t dance, not in any way referring specifically to **JustPlainBryan** , who I’m sure is a tiger in the sack. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/5 "2003-09-04T21:03:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lezlers \* > Guideline: > > I generally don’t take home guys who can’t dance, because the men I’ve brought home in the past that couldn’t dance haven’t been too good in bed. > > Generalization: > > Men who can’t dance aren’t good in bed. > > The fact that you said it’s directly related, I believe puts you in the generalization camp. > > Not to mention the fact that it’s a damn stupid generalization. And how would you knwo? Have ypou slept with the same guys I’ve sleot with? For all I know, your history may find that dancing ability has no relation to doing the nasty, but that’s your experience. This is mine. > [@](#): > > Do you also “take home” guys according to their shoe size? A. I don’t take home anybody anymore because I’ve been monogamously partnered for the last two years. B. I’m actually not into well-endowed guys because more than a mouthful is wasted. C. As far as I can tell, shoe size has no relation to dick size. I’ve been with men of every size and shape and I’ve never found any correlation. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/6 "2003-09-04T21:08:54Z")
> [@](#): > > What’s more, one’s ability on the dance floor, **IMO** , is directly related to one’s ability as a partner in bed. Is someone missing the **IMO** in **gobear** ’s post? ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/7 "2003-09-04T21:11:00Z")
Dating criteria? Sorry **gobear** , it sounds more like \*\*fucking \*\* criteria. YMMV ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/8 "2003-09-04T21:15:42Z")
You know… in GD I’d have been all over **gobear** (and not in the fun way) for that statement. But in CS, in a sentence which clearly identifies it as his opinion… I’ve got to say something I usually abhor: everyone’s entitled to an opinion, especially about something as subjective as horizontal gymnastics. If it’s his opinion that dancing ability is directly related to humping ability, I can’t see how anyone else can claim he’s wrong. It IS his opinion. He makes no claim of subjective accuracy. He’s just offering his reaction. What do you think the word ‘opinion’ means? - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/9 "2003-09-04T21:29:21Z")
As a point of clarification, **gobear** , is it guys who _can’t_ dance that are bad in bed, or guys who _won’t_ dance who are bad in bed? Seems like a significant difference to me. I mean, if a guy dances like Stephen Hawking being hit by a taser, but is still happy to go out on the floor and flail about awkwardly, is there still a chance he’ll be good in the sack? I hope to hell the answer is yes… ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/10 "2003-09-04T21:36:58Z")
Unless gobear has some controlled, double blind studies that correlate dancing ability with sexual prowess, he’s just spouting off unproven generalizations. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/11 "2003-09-04T21:46:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blalron \* > \*\*Unless gobear has some controlled, double blind studies that correlate dancing ability with sexual prowess, he’s just spouting off unproven generalizations. \*\* No - he’s speaking as the best possible source of information. He is relating his opinion. Now, his opinion may be based on events from which you would draw a different conclusion. That’s not relevant. He said it was his opinion. How could a controlled study possibly offer a better report on what his opinion is than his own report? ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/12 "2003-09-04T21:47:28Z")
Eh. I guess I can see your point. The IMO part should probably serve as a “get out jail free” card. Although I think people sometimes take the “imo” thing a little far. Just because it’s your opinion doesn’t mean people can’t call you on how stupid they think it is. Just thought of my Camero aversion. Every guy I’ve known that’s driven a Camero has generally been an asshole. I’ve turned down dates before upon finding out the guy drove a Camero. Too many bad Camero experiences. Make sense? Not really. Reasonable? Not hardly. My own personal bias that I’m entitled to? Yup, and I’m sticken to it. So even though I think your dancing bias is lame (as you probably think my Camero one is) it’s your bias and you’re entitled to it. I take back my previous post. ---
**Author:** ![Anamorphic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anamorphic/32/3057_2.png) [@Anamorphic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anamorphic)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/13 "2003-09-04T21:53:02Z")
All the people here who are harping on the “what part of ‘in my opinion’ do you not understand?” are missing _my_ point. Of course gobear is allowed his own dating criteria, and to have his own opinion on what makes someone good in the sack. I don’t care about that. I have my own dating criteria that I’m sure lots of people wouldn’t agree with. I’m not commenting on his _opinion_ here, at all. I’m commenting on the fact that, what he said, in the context that he said it, was pretty damn rude. **gobear** , you can “piffle” all you want, but the fact is, **JustPlainBryan** said he wasn’t a good dancer, and you responded directly to _that post_, quoting part of it, saying that you directly tie someone’s dancing ability to their sexual prowess. Whether or not you _meant_ it directly as an insult to **Bryan** , can you at least see how it could be taken as one? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/14 "2003-09-04T21:54:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Now, his opinion may be based on events from which you would draw a different conclusion. That’s not relevant. He said it was his opinion. How could a controlled study possibly offer a better report on what his opinion is than his own report? I think its entirely possible that his connection between dancing and sexual ability is entirely in his head, and its subjective validation which has caused him to make that connection. If he were to participate in an experiment where he had to have sex with 10 men, blindfolded, rate the sex experience on a numerical scale… and then when the blindfold came off he later rated their dancing ability, he may be suprised at the results. ---
**Author:** ![Wikkit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c0e974/32.png) [@Wikkit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wikkit)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/15 "2003-09-04T21:58:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Miller \* > **I mean, if a guy dances like Stephen Hawking being hit by a taser,** **Miller** wins the Simile of the Day Award. Congrats. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/16 "2003-09-04T22:06:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Miller \* > \*\*As a point of clarification, **gobear** , is it guys who _can’t_ dance that are bad in bed, or guys who _won’t_ dance who are bad in bed? Seems like a significant difference to me. I mean, if a guy dances like Stephen Hawking being hit by a taser, but is still happy to go out on the floor and flail about awkwardly, is there still a chance he’ll be good in the sack? > > I hope to hell the answer is yes… \*\* Hey, if someone’s willing to try to dance despite the potential of embarrassment (and if he looks adorable doing it), I’d probably do him. See, what I fail to understand is why despite qualifying my opinion as **my own subjective opinion for me** , I still get attacked. I’ve got an idea, but I’ll keep it to myself for now. **Blalron** > [@](#): > > If he were to participate in an experiment where he had to have sex with 10 men, blindfolded, rate the sex experience on a numerical scale… and then when the blindfold came off he later rated their dancing ability, he may be suprised at the results… I am second to none in my devotion to skeptical inquiry, so I’d be more than happy to do my all for science. **Anamorphic** , if **JustPlainBryan** feels that I am insulted, be asured that any insult was completely unintentional and I apologize if I hurt his feelings. I do NOT, however, apologize for my own subjective opinions. I never said that they were objectively true or that they would withstand statitical analysis. But it has always been a reliable test IM FUCKING O. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/17 "2003-09-04T22:33:46Z")
You can definitely hold, and express, your opinion that talent on the dance floor is related to talent in bed. And I, in turn, am allowed to hold, and express, the opinion that your opinion is abominably stupid. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/18 "2003-09-04T22:39:13Z")
“Men who enjoy dancing with gobear, and that Gobear enjoys dancing with” is certainly a category where I’d expect a correlation with sexual fun. After all- enjoyment on the dance floor- or similar physical activity- is tied to sexual arousal. Just like fro somw women- if a man can’t tickle them- then that man can’t please them in bed. Not that even our OP admits that the ATTEMPT is good enough. However- I do think that if Gobear simply thinks that their SKILLS as a dancer have something to do with their SKILLS as a lover- then, he is “IMO” full of shit. But there should be a correlation between how much Gobear ENJOYS dancing with a partner to his enjoyment of more intimate activities- as long as we all know that 'enjoyment" does NOT equal “skill”. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/19 "2003-09-04T22:41:30Z")
Sigh. It is “Just like fOR somE women…” and “NotE that even our OP…” Damn, I goot stop taking those shiny purple pills…😃 ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/20 "2003-09-04T22:49:07Z")
> [@](#): > > You can definitely hold, and express, your opinion that talent on the dance floor is related to talent in bed. > > And I, in turn, am allowed to hold, and express, the opinion that your opinion is abominably stupid. Eh, as if I cared about your opinion. As I said, it’s my sex life–you don’t get a vote. > [@](#): > > Not that even our OP admits that the ATTEMPT is good enough. Um, if you bothered to actually READ my posts, you would have seen that I wrote, “Hey, if someone’s willing to try to dance despite the potential of embarrassment (and if he looks adorable doing it), I’d probably do him.” > [@](#): > > However- I do think that if Gobear simply thinks that their SKILLS as a dancer have something to do with their SKILLS as a lover- then, he is “IMO” full of shit. But why am I “full of shit”? You and I could fuck the same person and you might find him/her immensely satisfying and I might find him (no “hers” for me) boring–and we would both be right because our respective sessions are experienced subjectively\*\*. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591.md?page=2)