# I'm entitled to my dating criteria, so back off! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 4, 2003, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591 "2003-09-04T20:25:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/21 "2003-09-04T23:03:30Z")
“Dancing is a vertical expression of a horizontal desire.” Someone famous said that. Of course, that was just _his_ opinion, like most famous sayings are. Jeeze, people, are you all vying for the title of “Offenderati?” If **gobear** didn’t want to do guys who don’t dance, how does this affect your lives? I have lots of opinions, too - guaran-damn-teed you won’t all agree with all of them, but I’ll fight to the death for my right to have them. ---
**Author:** ![JustPlainBryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/57b2e6/32.png) [@JustPlainBryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustPlainBryan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/22 "2003-09-04T23:42:56Z")
For the record, I was offended by the remark, especially because it was apropo of nothing. It seemed to me like it was a back-handed insult meant to shut me up about not knowing how to dance. Further, I do not think that my wife’s attempt to defend me should be characterized as “misguided”, since more than one person saw the remark as being offensive. That being said, I do accept **gobear** ’s apology. He probably didn’t mean it that way, and I try to give the benefit of the doubt as much as possible. And I don’t think my “honor” was being attacked per say. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/23 "2003-09-05T00:56:04Z")
I think I get what the deal is here. Gobear probably _could_ have expressed it better, that’s what I’m guessing. I am getting that what he meant was that it the way he is “wired” (and his preferences are very personal and unique, just like everyone else) and that it always seems that the ones who dance well are also good in bed _for him._ He’s got certain “wiring” (like we all do) and for him, but perhaps _just_ for him, he’s found out that if the guy dances badly, he’s going to be unimpressive in bed. According to gobear’s idea of what is “good” in bed. And, for that matter, according to what gobear considers to be “good” dancing. However, it obviously didn’t come out sounding that way; it sounded like he was saying that bad dancers were bad in bed. And that’s _waaaay_ too general of a statement. And it’s full of shit, as far as I am concerned. But I don’t think gobear meant that. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/24 "2003-09-05T01:54:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Gobear probably could have expressed it better, that’s what I’m guessing. Nonsense, I said that my comments were my opinion! That some construe that to mean my posts were statements of objective fact is a tribute to either their illiteracy or their deliberate dishonesty in purposely misrepresenting my statements. > [@](#): > > However, it obviously didn’t come out sounding that way; it sounded like he was saying that bad dancers were bad in bed. And that’s waaaay too general of a statement. And it’s full of shit, as far as I am concerned. But **why** is it full of shit, other than I said it and not someone else? It’s my preference, which is not binding on anyone but me, dammit! If I had said, “ **All** bad dancers are **always** bad in bed,” as if it were some General Principle of Sexual Relativity, then the pile-on would be justified. But. I. **DIDN’T** Say. Any. Such Thing. I expressed my own subjective view that IN MY MOTHERFUCKING OPINION guys who don’t dance are not likely to fuck well either. It’s my preference, and nobody here gets to vote on what I like and don’t like. Hell, if I said “I think chocolate ice cream tastes better than vanilla,” there’d be at least a dozen demands for a “Cite!” from the Offenderati. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/25 "2003-09-05T01:56:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Gobear probably could have expressed it better, that’s what I’m guessing. Nonsense, I said that my comments were my opinion! That some construe that to mean my posts were statements of objective fact is a tribute to either their illiteracy or their deliberate dishonesty in purposely misrepresenting my statements. > [@](#): > > However, it obviously didn’t come out sounding that way; it sounded like he was saying that bad dancers were bad in bed. And that’s waaaay too general of a statement. And it’s full of shit, as far as I am concerned. But **why** is it full of shit, other than I said it and not someone else? It’s my preference, which is not binding on anyone but me, dammit! If I had said, “ **All** bad dancers are **always** bad in bed,” as if it were some General Principle of Sexual Relativity, as if it were true for all people everywhere from every perspective, then the pile-on would be justified. But. I. **DIDN’T** Say. Any. Such Thing. I’m talking about ME and what I like, and I 'm attracted to guys who dance and not to guys who don’t dance. I expressed my own subjective view that IN MY MOTHERFUCKING OPINION guys who don’t dance are not likely to fuck well either. It’s my preference, and nobody here gets to vote on what I like and don’t like. Hell, if I said “I think chocolate ice cream tastes better than vanilla,” there’d be at least a dozen demands for a “Cite!” from the Offenderati. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/26 "2003-09-05T02:34:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > **Nonsense, I said that my comments were my opinion! That some construe that to mean my posts were statements of objective fact is a tribute to either their illiteracy or their deliberate dishonesty in purposely misrepresenting my statements.** There’s a big difference between illiteracy (the inability to read) and **aliteracy** (the ability to decide not to read your drivel). > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\* > But **why** is it full of shit, other than I said it and not someone else? It’s my preference, which is not binding on anyone but me, dammit! > > If I had said, “ **All** bad dancers are **always** bad in bed,” as if it were some General Principle of Sexual Relativity, as if it were true for all people everywhere from every perspective, then the pile-on would be justified.\*\* What pile-on? You posted an unclear opinion that was deemed as possibly offensive and the “pile-on” as you called it pretty much went away after you posted your explanation in the OT. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*But. I. **DIDN’T** Say. Any. Such Thing. I’m talking about ME and what I like, and I 'm attracted to guys who dance and not to guys who don’t dance. I expressed my own subjective view that IN MY MOTHERFUCKING OPINION guys who don’t dance are not likely to fuck well either. It’s my preference, and nobody here gets to vote on what I like and don’t like. > > Hell, if I said “I think chocolate ice cream tastes better than vanilla,” there’d be at least a dozen demands for a “Cite!” from the Offenderati. \*\* Yes it’s your “MOTHERFUCKING OPINION” and no one is saying you can’t have your “MOTHERFUCKING OPINION”. The problem you seem to be having is that you don’t want to hear other people’s opinions about your “MOTHERFUCKING OPINION”. That’s what will happen if you post your “MOTHERFUCKING OPINION” in a PUBLIC FORUM. Take the buttplug out of your ass and stick it in your mouth because no one wants to hear the whiney cry baby shit that’s spewing out. Of course, that’s just MY MOTHERFUCKING OPINION, I may be wrong.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/27 "2003-09-05T02:36:32Z")
**gobear** : I think what **yosemitebabe** meant by you possibly expressing yourself better is that you could have phrased/timed your post in a way such that **JustPlainBryan** , his wife, and others who read that post WOULDN’T think that you were insulting him directly. ---
**Author:** ![JavaMaven1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cab0a1/32.png) [@JavaMaven1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JavaMaven1)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/28 "2003-09-05T02:40:36Z")
Sure, you stated **IMO** , but it’s certainly my perogative to disagree with your opinion, especially because I did take your comment to my husband’s post as being a backhanded insult. _shrug_ You ( **IMO** reluctantly) apologized to my husband, and if my husband finds it satisfactory, then so do I. I’m done with this. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/29 "2003-09-05T03:05:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Yes it’s your “MOTHERFUCKING OPINION” and no one is saying you can’t have your “MOTHERFUCKING OPINION”. The problem you seem to be having is that you don’t want to hear other people’s opinions about your “MOTHERFUCKING OPINION”. That’s what will happen if you post your “MOTHERFUCKING OPINION” in a PUBLIC FORUM. You miss the point. **Javamaven** said, “For someone as intelligent, well-educated, well-travelled, and as worldly as you are, I can’t believe you can make this sweeping generalization about people who cannot dance.” So you see we have the continuing problem of people deliberately mischaracterizing a personal preference as a sweeping gneralization that applies to everyone. Now you may not mind having people lie about your posts, but it tends to bug me. YMMV. > [@](#): > > Take the buttplug out of your ass and stick it in your mouth because no one wants to hear the whiney cry baby shit that’s spewing out. I’m glad that you might enjoy sucking buttplugs, but it does nothing for me. > [@](#): > > You (IMO reluctantly) apologized to my husband, and if my husband finds it satisfactory, then so do I. I said the insult was unintentional and that I apologized if I hurt his feelings. If you see that as “reluctant,” that’s on you, not me. > [@](#): > > I’m done with this. Ditto. The mods can lock 'er up. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/30 "2003-09-05T03:56:07Z")
Jesus **gobear** , persecution complex? Most people in this thread have agreed with you (even I changed my tune upon further reflection) and you’re still lashing out. People are allowed to disagree with you. Now you’re just throwing a temper tantrum for the sake of throwing a temper tantrum. **Yosemitebabe** was on _your_ freakin’ side, in case you missed it, and you still came at her with guns a blazin’. Grow up. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/31 "2003-09-05T04:22:09Z")
Java, You should look on the bright side, at least now you know that gobear won’t be making a play for Bryan. Everytime we go to a dopefest, he tells me that I’m a fine hunk of a man. I gotta tell you, since fall is the traditional time of year when gays step up their recruitment efforts ( double points towards toasters and that weekend in the Miami time-share for straights converted Sept-Nov, donchaknow ) Gingy is plenty worried. If this keeps up, I may have to dance for him to break his interest in me. ---
**Author:** ![Anamorphic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anamorphic/32/3057_2.png) [@Anamorphic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anamorphic)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/32 "2003-09-05T04:43:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\ ***Anamorphic** , if **JustPlainBryan** feels that I am insulted, be asured that any insult was completely unintentional and I apologize if I hurt his feelings. > > I do NOT, however, apologize for my own subjective opinions. I never said that they were objectively true or that they would withstand statitical analysis. But it has always been a reliable test IM FUCKING O. \*\* I think you did the right thing by making sure Bryan knows you didn’t mean it as an insult, and apologizing for any unintentional hurt feelings. Again, I was not here, nor would I ever, ask for you to apologize for your opinions. Wasn’t my point of speaking up here at all. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/33 "2003-09-05T05:21:35Z")
> [@](#): > > lezlers wrote: > > Yosemitebabe was on your freakin’ side, in case you missed it, and you still came at her with guns a blazin’. Thank you lezlers. I was totally on your side, gobear. The only thing I supposed was that, (for whatever reason) you did not express yourself initially in such a way to make your _true_ intents clear. Thus, the comment from Javamaven. So I was sorta, kinda, trying to clear it up. That you didn’t mean that **all** bad dancers, all over the world, no matter what, not **ALL** bad dancers are bad in bed. Let’s look at what I actually wrote: > [@](#): > > _I wrote:_ > > However, it obviously didn’t come out sounding that way; it sounded like he was saying that bad dancers were bad in bed. And that’s waaaay too general of a statement. And it’s full of shit, as far as I am concerned. > > **But I don’t think gobear meant that.** Please note the bolded sentence. You may have missed it last time. All I was saying was that you didn’t mean it that way. And also that the thought that **ALL** bad dancers are bad in bed was “bullshit.” Because it is. It’s not true for _everyone,_ therefore, anyone who claimed that it was would be full of shit. But you didn’t claim that, did you? Sheesh. Whatever dude. ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/34 "2003-09-05T05:35:47Z")
What about guys who refuse to dance because it’s just really fucking stupid? ---
**Author:** ![AfterAugust](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AfterAugust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AfterAugust)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/35 "2003-09-05T06:38:29Z")
gobear, I’m not going to get on you for your opinion. I won’t date a guy who willingly wears yellow or red fleece vests (all the guys I’ve come across that do have usually been assholes), so I understand. That doesn’t mean that I KNOW all men who do HAVE TO BE assholes, I’m just leary. So, what you were trying to say is that you don’t think all guys who can’t dance MUST be horrible in bed, it’s just that from your experience, you have come to the conclusion that the chances could be high, so you’ve steared away from them. Your comment wasn’t geared towards anybody, you were just reminded of your stance of bad dancers from someone else’s post? It was just that your opinion was posted at the wrong time, in the wrong place, thus was mistakenly seen as an insult. Did I get that right? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/36 "2003-09-05T11:07:09Z")
> [@](#): > > Yosemitebabe was on your freakin’ side, in case you missed it, and you still came at her with guns a blazin’. Sorry, that was totally my bad for using her quote because that post was meant at other people, but not her, and I should have said so. > [@](#): > > People are allowed to disagree with you. Of course, but what is increasingly clear is that I am not allowed to disagree with them. It is one thing to say that one does not agree with my opinions, and quite another that it is wrong to hold those ideas at all, which is what set me off. > [@](#): > > Now you’re just throwing a temper tantrum for the sake of throwing a temper tantrum. Yosemitebabe was on your freakin’ side, in case you missed it, and you still came at her with guns a blazin’. I apologized to **YosemiteBabe** up front, but I maintain the content fo my post in general. **Lezlers** , this is the Pit, I wasn’t quite done with my ranting, and I do not require your approval of the content of my posts. Live with it. [quote] Persecution complex? [quote] You mean that people don’t attakc me for expressing unpopular opinions? Look around. I’ve been jumped on for suggesting that working out is healthier than not working out, that reading the Bible and learning mathematics are useful and necessary pursuits for understanding the wider culture, that reading books is better than watching TV. I get attacked for posting personal opinion that peoplke take as deadly insults. As I said earlier, if I posted that I like chocolate ice cream, someone like you would write, “Why did you insult vanilla, you dairy racist!” > [@](#): > > Everytime we go to a dopefest, he tells me that I’m a fine hunk of a man. \ Gingy is plenty worried. If this keeps up, I may have to dance for him to break his interest in me. **WeirdDave** , you needn’t worry, your virtue is safe. I already have enough toaster ovens. > [@](#): > > So, what you were trying to say is that you don’t think all guys who can’t dance MUST be horrible in bed, it’s just that from your experience, you have come to the conclusion that the chances could be high, so you’ve steared away from them. Your comment wasn’t geared towards anybody, you were just reminded of your stance of bad dancers from someone else’s post? It was just that your opinion was posted at the wrong time, in the wrong place, thus was mistakenly seen as an insult. Exactly, except that I did say it but people ignored what I actually wrote and criticized me for what they thought I wrote. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/37 "2003-09-05T13:57:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > **\what is increasingly clear is that I am not allowed to disagree with them. \** This, in my opinion, is the heart of this matter. I blame rampant “Political Correctness.” ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/38 "2003-09-05T14:10:42Z")
> [@](#): > > If he were to participate in an experiment where he had to have sex with 10 men, blindfolded, rate the sex experience on a numerical scale… and then when the blindfold came off he later rated their dancing ability, he may be suprised at the results. Where do I sign up to advance this vitally important scientific research? Will there be grant money of some sort involved? ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/39 "2003-09-05T14:11:42Z")
OK, I’m glad you cleared that up, gobear. Commence with your ranting! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591/40 "2003-09-05T14:49:09Z")
Yikes! Not another opinion confused with facts argument, Gobear. I know I’m not exactly your favorite person, but bear with me a moment. I am certain that you intended that statement as nothing more than an opinion, just as you state is was ‘in your opinion.’ But being an opinion does not close the door to any disagreement, and there are two problems with this one: 1. Your opinion results in what you call a _‘direct relationship’_. It’s no surprise that someone might question if there is support for such a direct relationship. I believe you meant to say you have a personal preference, which is fine. 2. The sentence basically consists of “[common shortcoming], IMO, is directly related to [very unflattering description]. Again, someone is bound to question it when worded this way. If I used this same formula to state that teachers, IMO, suck in bed, we’d be seeing another pit thread pop up fairly quickly. I don’t think it has anything to do with political correctness or the desire to deny people their opinions. It’s a miscommunication that could probably have been solved amicably prior to arriving here in the pit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-entitled-to-my-dating-criteria-so-back-off/199591.md?page=3)