# I'm finally getting into the Lord Peter Wimsey books! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 18, 2008, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-finally-getting-into-the-lord-peter-wimsey-books/449717 "2008-05-18T03:34:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-finally-getting-into-the-lord-peter-wimsey-books/449717/1 "2008-05-18T03:34:14Z")
I bought the entire series (minus the non-Sayers books and short stories) on ebay and am using my commutes and lunch breaks to read them. Nobody spoil anything, please! I’ve just started the 3rd book (I’m reading them in order) and I’m having fun. Since I’ve been assured they just keep getting better I’m giddy with anticipation. They’re so funny (in a quite dry way) and I love how she writes. I’m often going back to read paragraphs or sentences a couple of times, just smiling to myself. It’s interesting how I keep running across words and phrases that seem so modern but then realizing that the books were written in England in the 1920’s. Like today, I read the word “canoodling” which I thought was a recent word made up by a trash tabloid. That’s all. I just wanted to express that I look forward to being part of the Wimsey club. (thanks lissener! Finally, eh?) ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-finally-getting-into-the-lord-peter-wimsey-books/449717/2 "2008-05-18T11:25:33Z")
Congratulations! Since I don’t remember which order they’re in, which one’s the third one and which two have you read? When you get to _The Nine Tailors_, let me know. I used to do change ringing and some of the things in that book can be harder to get if you don’t know much about it. Meanwhile, enjoy the books. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-finally-getting-into-the-lord-peter-wimsey-books/449717/3 "2008-05-18T20:25:59Z")
[QUOTE=Siege] Congratulations! Since I don’t remember which order they’re in, which one’s the third one and which two have you read? When you get to _The Nine Tailors_, let me know. I used to do change ringing and some of the things in that book can be harder to get if you don’t know much about it. Meanwhile, enjoy the books. [/QUOTE] This is the list I’m working from, based on the [Wikipedia article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Peter_Wimsey) on Wimsey. Whose Body?, 1923 Clouds of Witness, 1926 Unnatural Death, 1927 The Unpleasantness at the Bellona Club, 1928 Strong Poison, 1931 Five Red Herrings, 1931 Have His Carcase, 1932 Murder Must Advertise, 1933 The Nine Tailors, 1934 Gaudy Night, 1935 Busman’s Honeymoon, 1937 I read _Whose Body?_ awhile back, and though I liked Wimsey and Bunter and Mother the case itself wasn’t that interesting so I didn’t pursue the series, though I did order them all from someone who was selling them as one set on ebay, and they sat on the shelf. Then, last week, I decided to start again. I pretty much breezed through _Clouds of Witness._ I liked the story, characters and setup, and her writing. The only thing I didn’t like about it was Wimsey’s continual Cockneyish accent, that is, more often than not dropping the g on words, such as bein’ and doin’ and wantin’ which was annoying just because I could hear him in my mind’s ear talking like Eliza Doolittle’s dad instead of a suave upper-crust dandy. Talking like that to fit in while investigating and interviewing someone from the lower classes, I can see, but he talked like that ALL the time, with everybody. What was up with that? He didn’t talk like that in the first book that I remember, and now I’m about halfway through _Unnatural Death_ and I’ve only seen it happen a few times, which is a relief. But other than that minor hiccup, I’m enjoying myself. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-finally-getting-into-the-lord-peter-wimsey-books/449717/4 "2008-05-18T20:39:34Z")
I think it was an experiment in style that Sayers quickly (and wisely) dropped. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-finally-getting-into-the-lord-peter-wimsey-books/449717/5 "2008-05-18T20:42:57Z")
Very wise indeed. I did like the book though. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-finally-getting-into-the-lord-peter-wimsey-books/449717/6 "2008-05-18T21:30:08Z")
_Gaudy Night_ is one of my absolute favorite books ever. I also very much enjoyed _Murder Must Advertise_ and _The Nine Tailors_. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-finally-getting-into-the-lord-peter-wimsey-books/449717/7 "2008-05-18T21:32:10Z")
[QUOTE=Equipoise] The only thing I didn’t like about it was Wimsey’s continual Cockneyish accent, that is, more often than not dropping the g on words, such as bein’ and doin’ and wantin’ which was annoying just because I could hear him in my mind’s ear talking like Eliza Doolittle’s dad instead of a suave upper-crust dandy. Talking like that to fit in while investigating and interviewing someone from the lower classes, I can see, but he talked like that ALL the time, with everybody. What was up with that? [/QUOTE] It was an upper-class affectation for a few years, and marked the speaker as a mindless dandy (a la Bertie Wooster)… which was Wimsey’s cover. My recollection is that the fad only lasted a short while, so in later books it’s dropped. The modern equivalent in the U.S. would be having someone speak Valley-speak, conversation laced with “dude” and “like, awesome” and so forth. Or perhaps leet-speek. Was fashionable for a couple of years. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-finally-getting-into-the-lord-peter-wimsey-books/449717/8 "2008-05-18T22:51:58Z")
Thanks for that bit of info **C K Dexter Haven**! That makes it make sense. I’ll keep that in mind when I re-read the books (as I’m sure I will, over the years). **Zsofia** , I can’t wait to get to _Gaudy Nights_ and the others of the last three, but I promised myself I would read them in order and wasn’t going to skip ahead. I’ll revive this thread when I get done with it. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-finally-getting-into-the-lord-peter-wimsey-books/449717/9 "2008-05-19T08:00:19Z")
[QUOTE=C K Dexter Haven] It was an upper-class affectation for a few years, and marked the speaker as a mindless dandy (a la Bertie Wooster)… which was Wimsey’s cover. My recollection is that the fad only lasted a short while, so in later books it’s dropped. [/QUOTE] Hmm… I’m not sure. It may have been a fad at one time, but dropping the “g” like that is usually a marker of a “County” accent – the “huntin’, shootin’, fishin’” landed gentry. It’s an accent that’s still around, and fits Wimsey’s background, I think. It’s a mistake to think that the upper classes necessarily speak precise and correct standard English – that’s more likely from the educated middle classes. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-finally-getting-into-the-lord-peter-wimsey-books/449717/10 "2008-05-19T08:12:29Z")
[QUOTE=WotNot] Hmm… I’m not sure. It may have been a fad at one time, but dropping the “g” like that is usually a marker of a “County” accent – the “huntin’, shootin’, fishin’” landed gentry. It’s an accent that’s still around, and fits Wimsey’s background, I think. It’s a mistake to think that the upper classes necessarily speak precise and correct standard English – that’s more likely from the educated middle classes. [/QUOTE] See, I don’t know that much about it, but my guess was somewhere along those lines; that it was somehow the way “cool” guys in his, um, peer group talked. I figured that Sayers tried to get that across, realized that she was overselling it, largely eschewed it in later books. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-finally-getting-into-the-lord-peter-wimsey-books/449717/11 "2008-05-19T09:00:05Z")
[QUOTE=lissener] See, I don’t know that much about it, but my guess was somewhere along those lines; that it was somehow the way “cool” guys in his, um, peer group talked. I figured that Sayers tried to get that across, realized that she was overselling it, largely eschewed it in later books. [/QUOTE] Well, you’ll have to define how you’re thinking of “cool”, but to my mind a County accent would be almost the opposite. To my mind, “cool” in post-First War England would be the metropolitan “bright young things”, the fashion-conscious, urban party-going set: sex, drugs and… er, jazz, probably. A County accent would mark Peter as being more inclined towards traditional values, _noblesse oblige_, stewardship of the land and so on. It’s not an accent that is (or was) stereotypically associated with great intellectual acumen, incidentally. ---
**Author:** ![Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleanor_of_Aquitaine)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-finally-getting-into-the-lord-peter-wimsey-books/449717/12 "2008-05-19T14:30:27Z")
[QUOTE=Equipoise] **Zsofia** , I can’t wait to get to _Gaudy Nights_ and the others of the last three, but I promised myself I would read them in order and wasn’t going to skip ahead. I’ll revive this thread when I get done with it. [/QUOTE] I almost always read books in order, but in this case I didn’t make it. I still need to go back and read \*Murder \*and _Nine Tailors_ because after _Have His Carcase_ I got excited about Harriet Vane so I skipped ahead to _Gaudy Night_. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-finally-getting-into-the-lord-peter-wimsey-books/449717/13 "2008-05-19T14:38:51Z")
[QUOTE=Eleanor of Aquitaine] I almost always read books in order, but in this case I didn’t make it. I still need to go back and read \*Murder \*and _Nine Tailors_ because after _Have His Carcase_ I got excited about Harriet Vane so I skipped ahead to _Gaudy Night_. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I’m mad at myself because I couldn’t help reading all the Harriet Vane ones first. Oh well. ETA - although those two don’t have Harriet in them they are extremely awesome, especially _Murder Must Advertise_ - Sayers evidently worked in an ad firm like the one in the book, and the 20’s advertising details are so awesome and fun. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-finally-getting-into-the-lord-peter-wimsey-books/449717/14 "2008-05-19T15:32:23Z")
[QUOTE=C K Dexter Haven] It was an upper-class affectation for a few years, and marked the speaker as a mindless dandy (a la Bertie Wooster)… which was Wimsey’s cover. My recollection is that the fad only lasted a short while, so in later books it’s dropped. The modern equivalent in the U.S. would be having someone speak Valley-speak, conversation laced with “dude” and “like, awesome” and so forth. Or perhaps leet-speek. Was fashionable for a couple of years. [/QUOTE] Wimsey’s “special” accent reminded me of the Scarlet Pimpernel. Posing as an Upper Class Twit was a good way to make people underestimate him. But I do love the books–might be time to round up those paperbacks & start re-reading. ---
**Author:** ![burundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@burundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burundi)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-finally-getting-into-the-lord-peter-wimsey-books/449717/15 "2008-05-19T15:35:46Z")
_Murder Must Advertise_ is my favorite Wimsey novel. It’s a cool mystery, plus a fascinating look at real people doing real jobs in the 1920s, which you don’t really get in her other books. And, as a bonus, you also get a peek into the world of the Bright Young Things. _Gaudy Night_ is one of my favorite books ever. I tend to think of it as a Harriet Vane novel than a Wimsey novel. Sayers does a beautiful job of portraying the joys and pains of scholarship. I love her descriptions of life at Shrewsbury. I actually think the book suffers when Wimsey comes on the scene and things get ooey-gooey. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-finally-getting-into-the-lord-peter-wimsey-books/449717/16 "2008-05-19T15:48:06Z")
The thing about _Murder Must Advertise_ is some of the advertising stuff sounds like it could apply today. I don’t know about the rest of you, but the Swiffer campaigns remind me of the book sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-finally-getting-into-the-lord-peter-wimsey-books/449717/17 "2008-05-19T16:05:13Z")
[QUOTE=burundi] _Murder Must Advertise_ is my favorite Wimsey novel. It’s a cool mystery, plus a fascinating look at real people doing real jobs in the 1920s, which you don’t really get in her other books. And, as a bonus, you also get a peek into the world of the Bright Young Things. _Gaudy Night_ is one of my favorite books ever. I tend to think of it as a Harriet Vane novel than a Wimsey novel. Sayers does a beautiful job of portraying the joys and pains of scholarship. I love her descriptions of life at Shrewsbury. I actually think the book suffers when Wimsey comes on the scene and things get ooey-gooey. [/QUOTE] Even when they’re in the boat? Even then? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![burundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@burundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burundi)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-finally-getting-into-the-lord-peter-wimsey-books/449717/18 "2008-05-19T19:53:42Z")
[QUOTE=Zsofia] Even when they’re in the boat? Even then? 🙂 [/QUOTE] Okay, I do like the scene in the boat. 😉 The one with the dog collar is a bit much for me, though. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-finally-getting-into-the-lord-peter-wimsey-books/449717/19 "2008-05-19T22:42:05Z")
Wait…there are NON-Sayers Wimsey stories? Tales of Lord Peter written by somone OTHER than Doroty S? :: works action on shotgun :: 'Scuse me. I got some people to go chat with. And by “chat with” I mean “hunt talk and shoot in the face.” ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2008, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-finally-getting-into-the-lord-peter-wimsey-books/449717/20 "2008-05-20T01:39:01Z")
Skald the Rhymer, these were listed on the [Lord Peter Wimsey Wikipedia page](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Peter_Wimsey). _Thrones, Dominations_, 1998 (not finished by Sayers—completed by Jill Paton Walsh) _A Presumption of Death_, 2002 (written by Jill Paton Walsh, based loosely on The Wimsey Papers) Thanks for the discussion about Wimsey’s speech patterns. I feel far less up-in-arms about it now. It’s very interesting. This is a common speech from Sir Peter in _Clouds of Witness_: > [@](#): > > _“You just come from Jerry?” he asked. “Fresh toast, please, Fleming. How is he? Enjoyin’ it? I never knew a fellow like Jerry for gettin’ the least possible out of any situation. I’d rather like the experience myself, you know; only I’d hate bein’ shut up and watchin’ the other idiots bunglin’ my case. No reflection on Murbles and you, Biggs. I mean myself–I mean the man who’d be me if I was Jerry. You follow me?”_ The next paragraph shows how his mother speaks. > [@](#): > > _“I was just saying to Sir Impey,” said the Duchess, “that he really must make Gerald say what he was doing in the garden at three in the morning. If only I’d been at Riddlesdale none of this would have happened. Of course, we all know that he wasn’t doing any harm, but we can’t expect the jurymen to understand that. The lower orders are so prejudiced. It is absurd of Gerald not to realise that he must speak out. He has no consideration.”_ And next, Sir Impey Biggs, who has the most wonderful name: > [@](#): > > _“I am doing my very best to persuade him, Duchess,” said Sir Impey, “but you must have patience. Lawyers enjoy a little mystery, you know. Why, if everybody came forward and told the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth straight out, we should all retire to the workhouse.”_ _grin_ That made me laugh out loud, something I’m doing often as I read. While he does drop his g’s (is that a correct use of an apostrophe? It looks better than gs) in the first book, _Whose Body_?, he doesn’t do it anywhere near as often. Here’s a common passage (funny too). > [@](#): > > \*“Have you any Scotch blood in you, Parker?” inquired his colleague, bitterly [Wimsey] > > “Not that I know of,” replied Parker. “Why”? > > “Because of all the cautious, ungenerous, deliberate and cold-blooded devils I know,” said Lord Peter, “you are the most cautious, ungenerous, deliberate and cold-blooded. Here am I, sweating my brains out to introduce a really sensational incident into your dull and disreputable little police investigation, and you refuse to show a single spark of enthusiasm.” > > “Well, it’s no good jumping at conclusions.” > > “Jump? You don’t even crawl distantly within sight of a conclusion. I believe if you caught the cat with her head in the cream-jug you’d say it was conceivable that the jug was empty when she got there.” > > “Well, it would be conceivable, wouldn’t it?” > > “Curse you,” said Lord Peter.\* _laugh_ I love the back-and-forth between Wimsey and Parker, and Wimsey and Bunter. In the third book, _Unnatural Death_, he still drops his g’s but yeah, not nearly as much. In looking for a passage that illustrates it, I found this, which doesn’t illustrate it, but is nonetheless quite delightful, as he explains to Parker about his using Miss Climpson as his Girl Friday. > [@](#): > > \*“Miss Climpson,” said Lord Peter, "is a manifestation of the wasteful way in which this country is run. Look at electricity. Look at water-power. Look at the tides. Look at the sun. Millions of power units being given off into space every minute. Thousands of old maids, simply bursting with useful energy, forced by our stupid social system into hydros and hotels and communities and hostels and posts as companions, where their magnificent gossip-powers and units of inquisitiveness are allowed to dissipate themselves or even become harmful to the community, while the ratepayers’ money is spent on getting work for which these women are providentially fitted, inefficiently carried out by ill-equipped policemen like you. My god! it’s enough to make a man write to John Bull. And then bright young men write nasty little patronising books called ‘Elderly Women’ and ‘On the Edge of the Explosion’–and the drunkards make songs upon 'em, poor things. > > “Quite, quite,” said Parker. “You mean that Miss Climpson is a kind of inquiry agent for you.” > > “She is my ears and tongue,” said Lord Peter, dramatically, “and especially my nose. She asks questions which a young man could not put without a blush. She is the angel that rushes in where fools get a clump on the head. She can smell a rat in the dark. In fact, she is the cat’s whiskers.” > > “That’s not a bad idea,” said Parker. > > "Naturally–it is mine, therefore brilliant. Just think. People want questions asked. Whom do they send? A man with large flat feet and a notebook–the sort of man whose private life is conducted in a series of inarticulate grunts. I send a lady with a long, woolly jumper on knitting-needles and jingly things round her neck. Of course she asks questions–everyone expects it. Nobody is surprised. Nobody is alarmed. And so-called superfluity is agreeably and usefully disposed of. One of these days you will put up a statue to me, with an inscription: > > “‘TO THE MAN WHO MADE > THOUSANDS OF SUPERFLUOUS WOMEN > HAPPY > WITHOUT INJURY TO THEIR MODESTY > OR EXERTION TO HIMSELF.’” > > “I wish you wouldn’t talk so much,” complained his friend.\* I LOVE it! I hope Miss Climpson appears again. She’s a hoot. I’ll even forgive her for her use of the word “N|GG3R” (caps hers, leeting is mine so it won’t come up in searches) in one of her letters to Wimsey, because I suppose it was in normal usage at that time. I’m still only about halfway through _Unnatural Death_, but I love the fact that two important characters are quite queer. To me, at this point in the book, it’s obvious that Miss Agatha Dawson (the sadly deceased) and her previous house-mate Miss Clara Whittaker (great-aunt of the Prime Suspect at this point) are a loving, interesting and accomplished lesbian couple. I hope this impression doesn’t change as I continue reading. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-finally-getting-into-the-lord-peter-wimsey-books/449717.md?page=2)