# I'm fucking mad at the people in the US who support and promote adult bullies. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 21, 2015, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-fucking-mad-at-the-people-in-the-us-who-support-and-promote-adult-bullies/728417 "2015-08-21T07:57:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-fucking-mad-at-the-people-in-the-us-who-support-and-promote-adult-bullies/728417/121 "2015-08-22T19:15:47Z")
> [@Shin Ji](#): > > Lynchings, on the other hand… Not to discount how terrible lynchings were, but the number of black people killed by lynching is absolutely dwarfed by the number of black people killed by violent career criminals kicked loose over and over again and in drive-by shootings and gang and drug related activity. Life for black people was safer then. Plus racism was getting better all the time anyway. It was better in the sixties than in the fifties, it was better in the fifties than it was in the forties, it was better in the forties than it was…you get the idea. No one has ever been able to demonstrate how all the ridiculous shit we’ve got going on now was necessary in order to end racism. Or even that it was created with that in mind. On the contrary, it’s mostly just grown out of a shitpile of random wrongheaded liberal ideas about how things in general ought to be done. > [@dropzone](#): > > Before Valium mother had loads of other, stronger, more dangerous little helpers to choose from, like Seconal. And an assortment of amphetamines to wake her up. Plus booze. That’s right, society was awash with mothers overdosing and/or breaking into houses and/or being forced into prostitution and/or killed in drive-by shootings or gang violence because of Valium and Seconal. :rolleyes: And last but not least, dislike of illegal immigration is not racism. Learn it, accept it, own it. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-fucking-mad-at-the-people-in-the-us-who-support-and-promote-adult-bullies/728417/122 "2015-08-22T20:00:13Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Not to discount how terrible lynchings were, but the number of black people killed by lynching is absolutely dwarfed by the number of black people killed by violent career criminals kicked loose over and over again and in drive-by shootings and gang and drug related activity. Life for black people was safer then. Plus racism was getting better all the time anyway. It was better in the sixties than in the fifties, it was better in the fifties than it was in the forties, it was better in the forties than it was…you get the idea. From _Letter from Birmingham Jail_, Martin Luthor King, Jr. > [@](#): > > We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. Frankly, I have yet to engage in a direct action campaign that was “well timed” in the view of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation. For years now I have heard the word “Wait!” It rings in the ear of every Negro with piercing familiarity. This “Wait” has almost always meant “Never.” We must come to see, with one of our distinguished jurists, that “justice too long delayed is justice denied.” > > We have waited for more than 340 years for our constitutional and God given rights. The nations of Asia and Africa are moving with jetlike speed toward gaining political independence, but we still creep at horse and buggy pace toward gaining a cup of coffee at a lunch counter. Perhaps it is easy for those who have never felt the stinging darts of segregation to say, “Wait.” But when you have seen vicious mobs lynch your mothers and fathers at will and drown your sisters and brothers at whim; when you have seen hate filled policemen curse, kick and even kill your black brothers and sisters; when you see the vast majority of your twenty million Negro brothers smothering in an airtight cage of poverty in the midst of an affluent society; when you suddenly find your tongue twisted and your speech stammering as you seek to explain to your six year old daughter why she can’t go to the public amusement park that has just been advertised on television, and see tears welling up in her eyes when she is told that Funtown is closed to colored children, and see ominous clouds of inferiority beginning to form in her little mental sky, and see her beginning to distort her personality by developing an unconscious bitterness toward white people; when you have to concoct an answer for a five year old son who is asking: “Daddy, why do white people treat colored people so mean?”; when you take a cross county drive and find it necessary to sleep night after night in the uncomfortable corners of your automobile because no motel will accept you; when you are humiliated day in and day out by nagging signs reading “white” and “colored”; when your first name becomes “nigger,” your middle name becomes “boy” (however old you are) and your last name becomes “John,” and your wife and mother are never given the respected title “Mrs.”; when you are harried by day and haunted by night by the fact that you are a Negro, living constantly at tiptoe stance, never quite knowing what to expect next, and are plagued with inner fears and outer resentments; when you are forever fighting a degenerating sense of “nobodiness”–then you will understand why we find it difficult to wait. There comes a time when the cup of endurance runs over, and men are no longer willing to be plunged into the abyss of despair. I hope, sirs, you can understand our legitimate and unavoidable impatience. You express a great deal of anxiety over our willingness to break laws. This is certainly a legitimate concern. Since we so diligently urge people to obey the Supreme Court’s decision of 1954 outlawing segregation in the public schools, at first glance it may seem rather paradoxical for us consciously to break laws. One may well ask: “How can you advocate breaking some laws and obeying others?” The answer lies in the fact that there are two types of laws: just and unjust. I would be the first to advocate obeying just laws. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that “an unjust law is no law at all.” ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-fucking-mad-at-the-people-in-the-us-who-support-and-promote-adult-bullies/728417/123 "2015-08-22T20:21:29Z")
That is undoubtedly very moving, and yes it would suck big time to have to live under those conditions. But can you explain to me how destroying family units with responsible parenting, creating ineffective schooling that graduates students who can’t read or write, creating a skyrocketing crime rate accompanied by a revolving-door justice system, and the promotion/defense/glamorization of drugs were envisioned as a surefire path to racial equality? As I said before, most of the ills this country is now suffering were not created in order to achieve racial (or sexual or homosexual or transexual) equality. They’re merely the offshoot of a lot of wrong-headed liberal ideas about how life should work. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-fucking-mad-at-the-people-in-the-us-who-support-and-promote-adult-bullies/728417/124 "2015-08-22T20:49:15Z")
Trump has no chance of being the Republican nominee, but I hope he stays in long enough to drag all the other Republican hopefuls into the sewer with him. To see Bush and the other nominees have to either refute Trump, or somewhat agree with his borderline (i’m not saying which side of that borderline he is on) racist rants is going to be delightful. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-fucking-mad-at-the-people-in-the-us-who-support-and-promote-adult-bullies/728417/125 "2015-08-22T21:41:23Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > That is undoubtedly very moving, and yes it would suck big time to have to live under those conditions. But can you explain to me how destroying family units with responsible parenting, creating ineffective schooling that graduates students who can’t read or write, creating a skyrocketing crime rate accompanied by a revolving-door justice system, and the promotion/defense/glamorization of drugs were envisioned as a surefire path to racial equality? We had this conversation before, the fault of that goes to all, and liberals could get some blame, but that is debatable. And minorities can figure out that you are only bullshitting. (In fact you are tossing the anti racist efforts of many Republicans like Eisenhower under the bus just to get your dumb points across.) > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > As I said before, most of the ills this country is now suffering were not created in order to achieve racial (or sexual or homosexual or transexual) equality. They’re merely the offshoot of a lot of wrong-headed liberal ideas about how life should work. I was not born yesterday indeed. The fact that you are tone deaf and continue to carry water for bullies like Arpaio (that Trump joined in his last rally in Arizona. Ignoring what the courts found against Arpaio) is evidence enough for many independents and moderate Republicans about what kind of allies they accumulated all these years. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-fucking-mad-at-the-people-in-the-us-who-support-and-promote-adult-bullies/728417/126 "2015-08-22T21:47:18Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > That is undoubtedly very moving, and yes it would suck big time to have to live under those conditions. But can you explain to me how destroying family units with responsible parenting, creating ineffective schooling that graduates students who can’t read or write, creating a skyrocketing crime rate accompanied by a revolving-door justice system, and the promotion/defense/glamorization of drugs were envisioned as a surefire path to racial equality? > > As I said before, most of the ills this country is now suffering were not created in order to achieve racial (or sexual or homosexual or transexual) equality. They’re merely the offshoot of a lot of wrong-headed liberal ideas about how life should work. do you ever bother to attach any facts to your claims? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-fucking-mad-at-the-people-in-the-us-who-support-and-promote-adult-bullies/728417/127 "2015-08-22T22:35:11Z")
Calling an adult a bully sounds like ineffectual whining. Whats wrong with prick? Or asshole? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-fucking-mad-at-the-people-in-the-us-who-support-and-promote-adult-bullies/728417/128 "2015-08-22T23:08:24Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Calling an adult a bully sounds like ineffectual whining. Whats wrong with prick? Or asshole? **XT** , who is no liberal, preferred “pendejo” in another thread. I go for Bully only because that is what the OP preferred to and even the Arizona Republic newspaper called Arpaio a “bully with a gun”. Feel free to use your also appropriate titles for those guys. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-fucking-mad-at-the-people-in-the-us-who-support-and-promote-adult-bullies/728417/129 "2015-08-22T23:20:50Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Not to discount how terrible lynchings were, but the number of black people killed by lynching is absolutely dwarfed by the number of black people killed by violent career criminals kicked loose over and over again and in drive-by shootings and gang and drug related activity. Life for black people was safer then. This is a ridiculous and extremely ignorant statement – not only were far, far more black people killed in racist violence than just lynching victims (and in fact, due to the times and the vigilante nature of the murders themselves, it’s likely that thousands upon thousands of murders were never recorded), but the character of the murders were entirely different. Literally [entire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosewood_massacre) [towns](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocoee_massacre) and communities of black people were wiped off the map by anti-black racist violence. Millions of black people lived under the threat of daily random violence – and also without the chance to compete economically, without the chance to own property, get a good education, and their best (and sometimes only) chance to reduce the risk of violence was to behave without dignity in obeisance to every white person they encountered (and even this wasn’t always enough, since black people were always at risk of attacks without the protection of law). If a black man looked at a white woman, he risked beating or death. If a black woman didn’t get up and give her seat to a white woman, she risked violence, the loss of her job, or more. If a white man liked how a black woman looked and approached her sexually, turning him down could be extremely hazardous to her physical or financial health. Just try to imagine a young black woman who worked in the household of a wealthy and influential white man who wanted sexual favors – rape was a daily horror for many black women, during slavery and afterwards. Huge swaths of America were fundamentally terrorist-occupied regions in which the black population was subject to violence and oppression meant to inspire permanent fear and acceptance of their inferiority. It was nightmare-horror stuff. America for most of it’s history was the active and violent enemy of black people. Only in recent decades has this even started to turn around. It’s almost impossible to exaggerate how horrible life for black people in big parts of the country up until recent decades so often was. Yes, it was really that bad. I trust black people and not you to tell me the truth of what life was like. > [@](#): > > No one has ever been able to demonstrate how all the ridiculous shit we’ve got going on now was necessary in order to end racism. Or even that it was created with that in mind. On the contrary, it’s mostly just grown out of a shitpile of random wrongheaded liberal ideas about how things in general ought to be done. It wasn’t done to “end racism”. It was done to protect black people from racist violence and other forms of racial oppression. Legislation can’t do anything to change minds, but it can protect people. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-fucking-mad-at-the-people-in-the-us-who-support-and-promote-adult-bullies/728417/130 "2015-08-22T23:24:28Z")
It’s pointless to argue on Starving Artist’s terms because he has no understanding either of the past or the present. He thinks we are living in some kind of violent, drug-addled dystopia, when compared to the past, exactly the opposite is true. If he won’t open his eyes to look at the world as it actually is, then you can’t persuade him of anything. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-fucking-mad-at-the-people-in-the-us-who-support-and-promote-adult-bullies/728417/131 "2015-08-22T23:31:02Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It’s pointless to argue on Starving Artist’s terms because he has no understanding either of the past or the present. He thinks we are living in some kind of violent, drug-addled dystopia, when compared to the past, exactly the opposite is true. If he won’t open his eyes to look at the world as it actually is, then you can’t persuade him of anything. you’re correct, one need look no further than this thread to see that. i’m sure countless other examples exist on this board however. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-fucking-mad-at-the-people-in-the-us-who-support-and-promote-adult-bullies/728417/132 "2015-08-22T23:55:59Z")
Liberals deny damage from liberal policies! Film at 11:00! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-fucking-mad-at-the-people-in-the-us-who-support-and-promote-adult-bullies/728417/133 "2015-08-23T00:05:28Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Liberals deny damage from liberal policies! Film at 11:00! Refusing to acknowledge your own possible biases isn’t something to be proud of. I recognize that most older white Americans have a very hard time recognizing that the America they remember was pretty awful place for many Americans. I recognize that older people in general have the tendency to look on the past with rose-colored glasses. But at least acknowledging these is a step forward. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-fucking-mad-at-the-people-in-the-us-who-support-and-promote-adult-bullies/728417/134 "2015-08-23T00:40:51Z")
Y’know, anecdotal tales of standing up to a bully and becoming respected are unpersuasive. Partly because it does not account for what happens if the mismatch makes it near suicidal, or if you run into just not a regular bully working out his insecurities but against a junior sociopath who will seek to badly hurt and injure you just because he can. OTOH I’ll concede that the policy by which s/he who stands up to the bully is punished equally or more severely than the provocateur may need some fine tuning at the very least. > [@leftfield6](#): > > To see Bush and the other nominees have to either refute Trump, or somewhat agree with his borderline (i’m not saying which side of that borderline he is on) This is however one thing in which I have to give a point to the advocates of the Old School: Nobody seems to be willing or able to directly stand up to him and call him out. The other Republicans have only themselves to blame for looking “weak” next to Trump, partly because thet have in the back of their minds the idea of harvesting his sympathizers sooner or (it’s beginning to look like very much) later. Also I will grant another thing: probing to see what someone else is made of may not be necessarily bullying _per se_. Being gratuituously abusive about it, however, is. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-fucking-mad-at-the-people-in-the-us-who-support-and-promote-adult-bullies/728417/135 "2015-08-23T00:50:35Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > That is undoubtedly very moving, and yes it would suck big time to have to live under those conditions. But can you explain to me how destroying family units with responsible parenting, creating ineffective schooling that graduates students who can’t read or write, creating a skyrocketing crime rate accompanied by a revolving-door justice system, and the promotion/defense/glamorization of drugs were envisioned as a surefire path to racial equality? I wasn’t attempting to speak to any of the causes, cures, or side effects that you describe; we’re far enough off the topic of this thread already. I just felt that your cavalier attitude toward racism, and whatever gradual improvement their may have been, was so eloquently and authoritatively demolished by Dr. King’s words that they were appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-fucking-mad-at-the-people-in-the-us-who-support-and-promote-adult-bullies/728417/136 "2015-08-23T00:53:37Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > That’s right, society was awash with mothers overdosing and/or breaking into houses and/or being forced into prostitution and/or killed in drive-by shootings or gang violence because of Valium and Seconal. :rolleyes: Notable accidental overdoses: Judy Garland-Seconal Anissa Jones (Jody from Family Affair)-Seconal Dinah Washington-Seconal Marilyn Monroe-Nembutal (pentobarbital) and chloral hydrate Tommy Dorsey-prescription sleeping pills Nick Adams-Paraldehyde (prescription written by his brother!) Since you have such strong memories of Ye Olde Days, perhaps you recall how very common it was for doctors back then to prescribe what now would be criminally-powerful barbituates and amphetamines for the most minor complaints–speed to help one to diet and downers to overcome the speed so one could sleep was typical, all washed down with cocktails. And this was the good shit, made in proper factories with quality control and government oversight, not cooked up in a rural house trailer. You will recall that The Rolling Stones’ “Mother’s Little Helper,” alluded to earlier, was about this common situation. If that was outside your experience and memories, you really have led a sheltered life. If you are completely unaware of it, you are no authority on the time and have no business getting nostalgic for it with those of us who so. Shit, when I was a little kid I was prescribed pheno-fucking-barbital because I got carsick. :eek: Older brother asked, “Do remember much before you were eight?” “Nope.” “I’m not surprised.” ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-fucking-mad-at-the-people-in-the-us-who-support-and-promote-adult-bullies/728417/137 "2015-08-23T01:24:21Z")
Not a drop or even an atom in a bucket of the crime, ruined lives and death caused by drugs the last few decades. I can’t believe you even posted that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-fucking-mad-at-the-people-in-the-us-who-support-and-promote-adult-bullies/728417/138 "2015-08-23T01:33:53Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Not a drop or even an atom in a bucket of the crime, ruined lives and death caused by drugs the last few decades. I can’t believe you even posted that. The damage caused by drugs are nothing compared to the damage caused by slavery, Jim Crow, and other forms of racial oppression. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-fucking-mad-at-the-people-in-the-us-who-support-and-promote-adult-bullies/728417/139 "2015-08-23T01:35:07Z")
You mentioned mothers overdosing on Seconal, etc. I provided examples of famous people overdosing on Seconal, etc. No need for those people of the 50s and 60s to rob liquor stores to get a fix, since sweet, old, Dr Bob prescribed them, and that’s why there was a scandalous drug problem in the US and Europe back then. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-fucking-mad-at-the-people-in-the-us-who-support-and-promote-adult-bullies/728417/140 "2015-08-23T02:43:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The damage caused by drugs are nothing compared to the damage caused by slavery, Jim Crow, and other forms of racial oppression. That may be somewhat debatable, but even if you’re right (and I think you probably are) it does not counter the claim made by SA. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-fucking-mad-at-the-people-in-the-us-who-support-and-promote-adult-bullies/728417.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-fucking-mad-at-the-people-in-the-us-who-support-and-promote-adult-bullies/728417.md?page=8)